In this thread many of us (including me) agree that there's a big difference between a 5.7 and a 6.2-6.3 wavesail and the 6.2 size isn't really liked for wavesailing handlingwise. Otoh the 5.6 - 5.8 sizes seem to be well established.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Wave-sailing/93kg-guy--15knot-wind-what-gear-for-waves-?page=1#23

Looking at the different sailbrands most have either no size bigger than 5.6- 5.8 or have a 5.7 - 6.2/6.3 gap.
Goya is one of the few brands with a 6.0 Banzai on offer.

I wonder if the 6.0 wouldn't be the better "biggest size" for a wavesail range, since there seems to be a niche between the "ok" 5.7s and the "too big" 6.2s, the 6.0 could fill

Is anyone riding a 6.0 wavesail and can compare to 5.7 and 6.2?
What's your opinion on this?

Hmmm... difficult to answer. I think that 6.0 doesn't fit in the line or the companies do not sell enough of them. The gap between 5.3 and 6.0 might be to big so they offer a 5.7, logical next size is 6.2. For myself 5.3 is the maximum for a wave sail. On bigger sizes i feel the handling isn't quick enough during cut backs or top turns. To be honest I avoid riding a 5.3 on my small board and go on a bigger Board and smaller sail.

I'm using 5.7 - 5.0 for years now and personally don't find the gap too big.
But like you on my small board (Goya Custom 3 98) i only use 5.0 and for my next set of sails i think of changing the 5.0 to 5.3 for extending my small boards range and in therefore also change the 5.7 to 6.0 for my big board (Goya One 105). But not a 6.3 anymore.
Because i had 6.3 Banzai and Fringe and always found them "too big".

I agree with Hanstholm. 5.3 is upper limit for wave sails even for big guys. Boom lengths more than 170cm slow down handling.

I guess the answer is that 'proper' wavesailing is where you turn on the wave, and any manoeuvre gets difficult or cumbersome once you are on a sail bigger than 5.3m.
That's about the area of the sail and maybe about the boom length and swing weight - the bigger rig becomes a hindrance, even if you feel you need more sail power.

So the modern answer is to take a bigger and earlier-planing board for lighter winds.
This is a total change in philosophy from the days when wave boards were sinker and narrower - and which then needed to be overloaded with big rigs.

Where I sail, if you need a 6m+ rig then the sea is flat, so a typical 6m rig would be a different shape, with more sail foot - a blasting sail.

If the sea wasn't flat then I'd still go for a smaller rig - and a floatier board - and I'd pump onto the wave. Once on the wave, assuming you catch one, you get the increased apparent wind due to the slope and push of that wave, so you then don't want a big rig.

And that's why we don't see many big wave sails being made anymore.

Note that on Maui it's almost always 5m weather at Ho-okipa, even on the float and ride days.

Just found a B+ condition North Rave 6.2.
Same profile as Zeta/Convert.
I remember Kevin Pritchard using a 6.2 Gaastra at a Jalama surf sailing contest finals.

Hotsails:
ks3 6.1
firelight 6.0
qu4d 6.0

I owned a six meter, sold it after first sail too big for me. 5.7 is doable but really 5.3 is optimum big sail for waves

I owned a six meter, sold it after first sail too big for me. 5.7 is doable but really 5.3 is optimum big sail for waves

A friend if mine tried, a nice severne (blade?) in 6.2. I think it lasted a few sessions :D ! The greater surface probably makes it vulnerable. The long boom cumbersome, both for maneuvers and waterstarts. I understand that for folks 100kg+ it can be a problem but most 90kg+ can bag out powerful 5.8s and do just fine.

For my weight (70kg), I don't go over 4.7 because I just prefer this size over anything bigger even in super light winds. Once on a wave, I just need a bit of wind (so I don't get weird backwind business) and placement does the rest.

I have no probs wave sailing with larger sails in small, light to moderate conditions e.g. below = 5.9Volt on 100 @ 12-15kt.

Have had various 5.9 Norths, currently got a 5.7 Blade as my biggie. Tend to use them to stay on the water in 12-25kt bump and jump conditions. 5.7 on my 107 reactor is a really nice combo, tried a mates 6.3 Freek on the 107 the other day & it was surprisingly comfortable going back and forth.

My biggest consideration for using large wave sails isn't handling for chucking buckets or early planing, it's whats going to happen when I inevitably take a hit. In my mind... flopping around in a break with very little wind and rips that scream towards the point of no return, anything over 5.3 seems near impossible to get out of the water.

Once there is any size or reasonable punch to the wave, I'm in the 'big board+5.3 camp' for float & ride.

I would think that above 5.3, you are not really waveriding anymore and its more about bump n jump coastel sailing.
At that point, might as well use a crossover sail like severne gator ; gunsails torro ; goya nexus etc

Angulo on a 5.8 , Kauli on a 4.0

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sprayblaze said..
I agree with Hanstholm. 5.3 is upper limit for wave sails even for big guys. Boom lengths more than 170cm slow down handling.

Gather you have never seen Koster sail.

Or Bjorn D.

Or even Antoine back in the day.



What a load of pure abject hogwash.

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Mark _australia said..

sprayblaze said..
I agree with Hanstholm. 5.3 is upper limit for wave sails even for big guys. Boom lengths more than 170cm slow down handling.

Gather you have never seen Koster sail.

Or Bjorn D.

Or even Antoine back in the day.



What a load of pure abject hogwash.

Yes, I have seen Koster sail and I have seen him very well. I have closely inspected his kit on the beach a couple of times. In competition he never uses anything more than 5.3. For Bjorn D and Antoine back in the day I don't know. Boom lengths more than 170cm are cumbersome and inefficient for DTL wave sailing even more so for pushloop forwards in Pozo -this is what pros say like it or not.

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Yes, I have seen Koster sail and I have seen him very well. I have closely inspected his kit on the beach a couple of times. In competition he never uses anything more than 5.3. For Bjorn D and Antoine back in the day I don't know. Boom lengths more than 170cm are cumbersome and inefficient for DTL wave sailing even more so for pushloop forwards in Pozo -this is what pros say like it or not.

I've gone to Maui the last few years to watch the Aloha Classic. I got to watch Koster sail his heats. He did more sinking than sailing. :-(

In those conditions anyone over 60 kg was dead in the water.

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ma said..

Angulo on a 5.8 , Kauli on a 4.0

It's like sailing in slow motion vs normal speed :D ! Awesome vid. Punta San Carlos often has great waves and little wind too.

Used to surfsail a bit.
Had buds 275 lbs., 235, and several at 210.
While they tried using the smallest possible, even in NorCal, they all had 6 meter wave sails and 100-125 liter boards for days I used 5 meter and 75 liters.
When it got windy, they used same size sails as me, but10 liter bigger boards.

You'll probably find the problem is sail weight. For most brands 5.7 is the upper end for what's tolerable in sail weight for a wave sail. Severne seems to be a standout when it comes to weight. The 6.2 Blade is about the same weight as a 5.3 from most other brands. That said I only use that sauce when I want to plane on the way out. If it's float and ride I'd prefer a 5.3 or 5.7. It allows you to be a bit more connected with the wave.

You'll probably find the problem is sail weight. For most brands 5.7 is the upper end for what's tolerable in sail weight for a wave sail. Severne seems to be a standout when it comes to weight. The 6.2 Blade is about the same weight as a 5.3 from most other brands. That said I only use that sauce when I want to plane on the way out. If it's float and ride I'd prefer a 5.3 or 5.7. It allows you to be a bit more connected with the wave.

I used to have 5.8m sails but was not a fan, biggest wave sail I use now it a 5.6m S1, I found any bigger than that the sails feel too heavy and clumsy to be an advantage, your better off on a bigger board. and drop one hole on your boom extension to get a little bit more power.

if its cross on and your thinking you need a 6m, your better off going home and washing your car or something because once your on the wave and do a bottom turn even a 7m wouldn't help.

So for your question, not many get made as no one really wants to use them so the don't sell many, many years ago I had an afternoon with some mate playing around on prototype 7m wave sail and 120 liter wave board, yes it kinda worked, was more fun then cooking on the hot beach but i wouldn't have rushed out and ordered any.

Regarding the 6.2s feeling bulky i think it's the combination of weight and dimensions.
Nevertheless i wonder why many brands that offer sizes > 5.7 offer 6.2s instead of 6.0 on the upper end, since nobody seems to really like 6.2s at all, even the 6.0s are disputed.
On the smaller sizes 0.3 size gaps are common, so why don't keep this gap for a 5.7 - 6.0 range?

All your responses keep me thinking. Today i have a 5.7 - 5.0 - 4.5 - 4.0 Goya Banzai (2018) quiver, which i would like to extend adding 1 additional size.
With my current quiver i find the 5.7 fine, but sometimes the 5.7 - 5.0 gap too big and also the 4.0 too big in high winds.
So my idea was a range of 6.0 - 5.3 - 4.7 - 4.2 - 3.7 Goya Banzais, but now I'm really struggling if i should take the 6.0.
And 5.7 - 5.3 seems too much overlap in range.
Hmm?

I'm sailing side/side-on and use my 6.3 Fringe with a WindSUP, but when I tried it with my 104L waveboard it actually slogged upwind worse than a 5.2 QU4D. It would almost plane downwind with the 6.3 where with the 5.2 it needed to be on the wave.
I don't currently own a sail between the two and likely won't rig the 6.3 if I'm not on the WindSUP.

I reckon a 5.8 wavesail is as big as we can go to go hard in the waves. At 6ft 2in and 100kg I've always ridden bigger volume boards and typically use a sail 1/2 meter bigger than everyone else on our local Sydney breaks. It's not so much the weight but the loss in maneuverability that is the limiter. I also find I often catch the back end of the boom on the wave face in down the line conditions if it is longer than 185cm. Lastly, for some reason I find forward or backward looping a 6.0 sail exponentially harder than a 5.3 or 5.8. Good luck with your wavesailing mate

After spending half of each year on Maui for the past 35 years, I can say that my 5.9 Simmer Black Tip is one of my favorite sails for wavesailing, in part because my favorite conditions are OH to logo-high with cross to cross-off wind at about 12-15mph; big glassy walls with not a ripple on the wave faces. I agree that if the surf is small, the 5.9 can feel out of proportion to the waves and the tighter turns we make in small surf, and I might try floating around on my 5.3 on my wider 83 Liter board instead of my usual 75L, but when it the surf is bigger, I hate wide boards even like my 83L, and prefer to take out my custom gunny 8'4" X 21.5" with the 5.9. No one paddles a short/wide board out at Waimea or Jaws, so why would we ever windsurf on one in big surf? When the surf is up around mast-high, the 5.9 fits right in with the more drawn out and powerful turns and does not feel big at all (I weigh 75 kilos). In fact when you are dropping down a mast+ high face to make a bottom turn through frothing foam piles, the extra weight of the rig when you lay the sail down is very reassuring in being able to set the rail nice and deep at those speeds. Like you saw in the preceding video of Cabo Verde, catching the clew is not a problem in larger surf as long as you pull the clew up when you lay the mast down, and time it right when you reopen off the top. The biggest advantage is pumping power when you need it. If I am floating out the back when a big set rolls through, I want enough pumping power to know that I am going to be able to pump onto the swell I pick, and not end up caught inside if the swell passed under me due to lack of pumping power. If you want to paddle into big swells you want big strong arms, not small quick maneuverable arms that you can throw around in waist high shorebreak. My 5.9 has a lot more power per pump than my 5.3. Same thing going out; if I see an outside set bearing down, I want enough maneuvering power to make it outside past the smaller sails that are bobbing in place waiting to get steamrolled.
Having said all that, if the surf is small, up to head-high, and the wind is under 12 mph, I will go down to my 5.3 on my 100L waveboard or even my 120 liter SUP and have a blast. The 5.9 does not do well in those conditions, and the risks due to a lack of pumping power are negligible. There is little to no apparent wind once surfing the waves and the sails can even backwind, so I want the sail to just disappear so that I can just enjoy surfing the board. Plus, when there is not enough wind to waterstart, a 5.3 is a lot easier to uphaul.
Lastly, I agree that anything over 6.0 is too big for use in the surf. I never go bigger than 5.9 anymore, if for no other reason than that rigs over 6 have more of tendency to break when getting trashed in large surf due to the larger surface area and longer lever arms loading up with the impact and turbulence of large surf.
Just my experience, your milage may very.

I've got a Maui sails Ghost 6.1m and its probably been my most used sail this year.
Thats with a wave board too. It's a pretty light set up and rides waves exceptionally well, easy to throw about etc.

East coast near Byron hasn't had great winds and usually use with a 101 X-wave.

Recon my 5.6m is my most used sail in usual conditions.

I'm 90kg so a 101 litre board is only 11 litres above my weight. Put the board weight and rig weight into the equation and there is 0 litres spare.

It could be the sail or the conditions (slightly X-on), but my 6.3 Fringe doesn't play well with my 104L Wave Cult. Just felt like too much, dropped to a 5.3 Blacktip and all was well again despite neither being able to plane.
The 6.3 Fringe works amazingly with a SUP or foiling though.

I'm ~90kg/180cm plus lots of wetsuit. I could see looking at a 5.9 Blacktip in the future.

I've used a fringe 6.3 with a Pyro 105 L. Used it in a competition when the forecast didn't materialize and my 5.8 wasn't cutting it. I did better much than expected against much better sailors than me, but will agree that something didn't feel quite right with the Fringe. Maybe because it's not the brand of sail that I usually use?

I guess it was not the Fringe, that felt wrong, but the size of 6.3 + long boom.
Even for us bigger and heavier guys the pure area of a 6.3 is hard to handle in waves.
Thinking back i'd only liked this size for freeride-like sessions, where it was a nice sail for maneuvers. But the dynamics in waveriding are different though.

I came this far to order 6.0 - 5.5 - 5.0 ..
The 6.0 will be my sail for sideon conditions or mushy waves and the 5.5 for side to side off quality waves.
Btw. Jason Diffin stated that Brawzinho (84 kg) is using a 5.5 Banzai as his biggest sail, so i guess this size should have some build in grunt.

I just still wonder how much use will get the 6.0 as i have started winging and in the conditions i'd use the 6.0 winging is a strong contender.

Alex

My most used wave sail in mushy cross onshore conditions is a KS3 6.7. Boom is 192. Sail is so balanced and light in the hands that I really don't notice the boom length. Maybe the problem for everyone that hates big wave sails is that they've never sailed a properly rigged large KS3 (the correct rigging is essential, done badly and they feel as crap as any other big wave sail).

For cross off, I'm happy with a 5.2 and a floaty board.