I'm hunting around for a sail to bolt on my 101 lt JP FSW. It's main use will be light wind wave sailing (say under 15 knots), but I'd also like to be able to use it for some lake blasting- say in those rare 20 knt plus days. I'm thinking 5.5 to 6.0 meters I guess. I really want one that is quite light and has a fair bit of grunt low in the sail. Looking at late model used stuff. Any recommendations? Got all RDM Ezzy mast and I weight 76 kgs.

Cheers for any info.

any yr naish force..... but 2008 was a great vintage

Sub 15 knots to 20knots plus is a pretty big range for a sail.

I have ezzy wave panthers (2009 I think). Use the 6 m for planing on flat water from 13 knots up on a freewave 105 but if it was over 20 knots on the same board i'd be using a 5m sail and I weigh 75kgs.

The 6m rigs on a 430 skinny mast. Not too many really light 6m durable sails but some brands make a big 4 batten sail which might keep the weight down. (I think ezzy for example make an elite up to 5.7) Severne s1 is also supposed to be stupidly light but i've not tried one.

Good luck,

Gotta back the Ezzy recommendation Phil, either the older Wave SEs (2007 onwards with built in 'camber like' shape) or the Panthers. Easy to rig, big wind range, tough as corrugated iron, inbuilt shape for blasting when it is on, higher aspect ratio than a freeride sail so also good in waves. A nice allrounder if you gotta have one style of sail to do it all

I have a 100 litre board aswell and in those conditions rig up my Naish 5.7 session I think it's a 2010 model. It's a great sail I use it from 15 to 20 knots and gets me going quite nicely, although I only weigh 65 kilograms...

Severne Blades 2012 onwards, 5.7 or 6.2, check out the specs on 2013 6.2, super light and short boom dimensions, strong and light, i rig on gorilla mast, but have rigged on ezzy masts before with good results. i use these sails to blast on 100 FSW and also wave sail on kona mini tanker in super light wind, great sails. Nothing is as durable as ezzy, but after one sail on blades i will never go back, powerful, and light, great sails.

do you think there is a signif diff between the 5.7 and 6.2....in terms of early planning and grunt....i guess there is? But then it will top out sooner?

Got to plan a quiver of Blades eg
5.7, 5.3, 4.7
5.7, 5.0, 4.5
6.2, 5.3, 4.7

(85kg sailing waves - cross off to cross on)

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northy1 said...
do you think there is a signif diff between the 5.7 and 6.2....in terms of early planning and grunt....i guess there is? But then it will top out sooner?

Got to plan a quiver of Blades eg
5.7, 5.3, 4.7
5.7, 5.0, 4.5
6.2, 5.3, 4.7

(85kg sailing waves - cross off to cross on)

Personally I have never found that I could get going that much earlier on a wave sail over 6m, put it down to power to weight, so have always had 5.7 as my largest.

I am also 85kg and my S1 quiver is 5.7, 5.3, 4.7. That has a bit to do with where I sail, we don't often see 4.7 weather, let alone any stronger. So I opted for the sails I use most to be closer together in size and then a bit of a jump to the smaller sail. I found in our conditions 5.7 to 5.0 was too big a jump.

For my quiver of sails for my boards, and weight 90 kg, east conditions - 94 quad, 100 FSW, 120 mini tanker, is 6.2/5.7/5.3 all 2012/2013 blades. I think theirs a significant difference in 5.7 to 6.2 both 2013 models. The 6.2 best suits me for bump jump/blasting blasting on 100 FSW for ocean & small waves, 12 - 20 knots. I use the mini tanker with 6.2 & 5.7, for 94 quad would only use 5.7/5.3. light wind wave sailing with 6.2 on mini tanker is super fun, but to put in perspective your not turning as fast on the wave as its more of a long board surf, but super fun in clean waves of any size, so sail size is fine. When just blasting i find the 6.2 quicker to plan and more importantly but in gusty on off conditions, doesn't lose power in lulls. (FSW only has 25 cm wave fin).
With these 3 sails all rig on 430 mast, but long extension for 6.2. Next sail might be 5.0 blade for stronger days, our wind is always light inshore and rarely gets over 30 knots.
6.2 = 10 to 20 knots.
5.7 = 15 to 25 knots.
5.3 = 25 to 30 knots.
so depending on waves and above board choice i chose the above sails to suit.

Thanks crew for the imput. At my weight (75 kg) on a 101 litre FSW, a powerful 5.5 sail gets me up and running pretty easily in 14 knots up. And with my limited skills, I get over powered in the surf (especially on the top turns) when it's much stronger than 16 knts or so. Yep, kinda sucks being a learner, but I'm starting to put it together .

Is it just me, or are Ezzy wave sails got a top heavey feel sbout them? I mean do they feel like the power (COE) is up fairly high? I've got a few Ezzys (albeit 2007 models) and I'm kinda shy of them after struggling with top heavy feel. I'm far more comfy in 18 knots with my 5.7 Gaastra Manic than my 5.2 Ezzy Wave. Though it's probably my rigging skills...

I think I need a light, power wave sail around 5.5 meters with a low center of effort. Remember I want to use it from chugging days (6-12 knots) when there's nice waves around, through to full planning wave days (sub 20 knot) and lake blasting when the wind's too much for me on my 6.6 cammed sail, which at this stage is anything over 20 knots. Did I mention it sucks being a learner...

Cheers for the imput. I'm learn something new from every post.

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aus301 said...

northy1 said...
do you think there is a signif diff between the 5.7 and 6.2....in terms of early planning and grunt....i guess there is? But then it will top out sooner?

Got to plan a quiver of Blades eg
5.7, 5.3, 4.7
5.7, 5.0, 4.5
6.2, 5.3, 4.7

(85kg sailing waves - cross off to cross on)

Personally I have never found that I could get going that much earlier on a wave sail over 6m, put it down to power to weight, so have always had 5.7 as my largest.

I am also 85kg and my S1 quiver is 5.7, 5.3, 4.7. That has a bit to do with where I sail, we don't often see 4.7 weather, let alone any stronger. So I opted for the sails I use most to be closer together in size and then a bit of a jump to the smaller sail. I found in our conditions 5.7 to 5.0 was too big a jump.

Cheers Aus301 - sounds similar to my setup
Can i ask why S1 rather than Blades?
What boards you run them on??

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PhilSWR said...

Is it just me, or are Ezzy wave sails got a top heavey feel sbout them? I mean do they feel like the power (COE) is up fairly high? I've got a few Ezzys (albeit 2007 models) and I'm kinda shy of them after struggling with top heavy feel. I'm far more comfy in 18 knots with my 5.7 Gaastra Manic than my 5.2 Ezzy Wave. Though it's probably my rigging skills...

Cheers for the imput. I'm learn something new from every post.

More downhaul Phil. Much more. Use the Downhaul markers at the top of the sail and you cant go wrong

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AJEaster said...

PhilSWR said...

Is it just me, or are Ezzy wave sails got a top heavey feel sbout them? I mean do they feel like the power (COE) is up fairly high? I've got a few Ezzys (albeit 2007 models) and I'm kinda shy of them after struggling with top heavy feel. I'm far more comfy in 18 knots with my 5.7 Gaastra Manic than my 5.2 Ezzy Wave. Though it's probably my rigging skills...

Cheers for the imput. I'm learn something new from every post.

More downhaul Phil. Much more. Use the Downhaul markers at the top of the sail and you cant go wrong

Will go more downhaul next outing- cheers mate. Soo much to learn...

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northy1 said...

aus301 said...

northy1 said...
do you think there is a signif diff between the 5.7 and 6.2....in terms of early planning and grunt....i guess there is? But then it will top out sooner?

Got to plan a quiver of Blades eg
5.7, 5.3, 4.7
5.7, 5.0, 4.5
6.2, 5.3, 4.7

(85kg sailing waves - cross off to cross on)

Personally I have never found that I could get going that much earlier on a wave sail over 6m, put it down to power to weight, so have always had 5.7 as my largest.

I am also 85kg and my S1 quiver is 5.7, 5.3, 4.7. That has a bit to do with where I sail, we don't often see 4.7 weather, let alone any stronger. So I opted for the sails I use most to be closer together in size and then a bit of a jump to the smaller sail. I found in our conditions 5.7 to 5.0 was too big a jump.

Cheers Aus301 - sounds similar to my setup
Can i ask why S1 rather than Blades?
What boards you run them on??

I had all Blades in 2012, and have switched to S1's for 2013.

I got to have a sail on a S1 for a few hours and really just liked the feel, I have always prefered a flatter profile sail and after sailing them and reasliing they didn't have the power loss I was extecting just seemed like the right choice. The weight, or lack of it on these sails is also amazing.

I am using a StarBoard Quad 92.

Have you tried the KA Kults ? Primarily a wave sail, but I know one of our guys uses his when it gets up on the inlet for flat water...

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northy1 said...

aus301 said...

northy1 said...
do you think there is a signif diff between the 5.7 and 6.2....in terms of early planning and grunt....i guess there is? But then it will top out sooner?

Got to plan a quiver of Blades eg
5.7, 5.3, 4.7
5.7, 5.0, 4.5
6.2, 5.3, 4.7

(85kg sailing waves - cross off to cross on)

Personally I have never found that I could get going that much earlier on a wave sail over 6m, put it down to power to weight, so have always had 5.7 as my largest.

I am also 85kg and my S1 quiver is 5.7, 5.3, 4.7. That has a bit to do with where I sail, we don't often see 4.7 weather, let alone any stronger. So I opted for the sails I use most to be closer together in size and then a bit of a jump to the smaller sail. I found in our conditions 5.7 to 5.0 was too big a jump.

Cheers Aus301 - sounds similar to my setup
Can i ask why S1 rather than Blades?
What boards you run them on??

Hi Phil,

Do yourself a favour and watch Dave Ezzy's how to rig vid for your model year. I've always found if you do exactly what he says, you can't go wrong, so I'm going to suggest you look to the outhaul more than the downhaul...

Cheers, Jens

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PhilSWR said...
Thanks crew for the imput. At my weight (75 kg) on a 101 litre FSW, a powerful 5.5 sail gets me up and running pretty easily in 14 knots up. And with my limited skills, I get over powered in the surf (especially on the top turns) when it's much stronger than 16 knts or so. Yep, kinda sucks being a learner, but I'm starting to put it together .

Is it just me, or are Ezzy wave sails got a top heavey feel sbout them? I mean do they feel like the power (COE) is up fairly high? I've got a few Ezzys (albeit 2007 models) and I'm kinda shy of them after struggling with top heavy feel. I'm far more comfy in 18 knots with my 5.7 Gaastra Manic than my 5.2 Ezzy Wave. Though it's probably my rigging skills...

I think I need a light, power wave sail around 5.5 meters with a low center of effort. Remember I want to use it from chugging days (6-12 knots) when there's nice waves around, through to full planning wave days (sub 20 knot) and lake blasting when the wind's too much for me on my 6.6 cammed sail, which at this stage is anything over 20 knots. Did I mention it sucks being a learner...

Cheers for the imput. I'm learn something new from every post.

it would be worth trying some later ezzys, the 2007's put a lot of people off ezzys, i have stuck through and now have panthers and panther 2's which are much lighter both in feel and in weight, the 2007's need a stack of outhaul, David Ezzy has mentioned in a number of interviews that there were some 'issues' in 2007 mostly with lack of rigging understanding, i never got my 2007 sorted, the 2008's were easier and any panther is just a different ball game (in a good way), as a heads up Naishs do not rig that well on ezzy masts (i had a 6.0 allterrain for a while before i returned to the ezzy tribe), naish's seem to prefer a stiff top mast, the naishes will work but you lose some range, ezzy - bullet proof and now light and easy (mind you blades are real nice sails - if i ever swap off ezzy these would get my vote) - we live in a good world, its hard to go wrong with any gear these days !!

Cheers Doug for the Ezzy insight. I'll keep that in mind when buying a latter model. I do like their bullet proof build and the general look of the sails, just the rigging shape and top heavy feel of my early ones is a bit off putting.

Can vouch for Ezzy Panther for blasting, 'blasted' on Lake Cooth Qld in 20-30knts quite nicely on my Ezzy Panther Ltd, 2 days ago, 90 ltr Evo, great fun, some of the gusts were over 30+ thanks to our friendly cyclone.
Never felt out of control once, amazing range, same sail I use from 18knts.(85kg)

You just need to make sure you outhaul plenty with the Ezzy's, as per the longest string given on the clew, and say 2cm more on really windy days, set the downhaul as per the dot guide on the sail. Figuring as the sails get older there must be some natural sail stretch etc, as my Panter is Second hand and I slightly over do the suggested settings, where as my Cheetah is new and the suggested settings are spot on.

If it feels top heavy or twitchy it's likely that that its not set right.

Dont think you will find a sail that will suit 'under 15' and then also suit +20?, very different beasts and conditions in my mind.

JonesySail, thanks for more insight into the Ezzy's. I near bought a used Panther 6 months back but was a little stung by my earlier Ezzys. I'll rig my Ezzy Wave tomorrow with heaps of outhaul and have another look at it. With a bit of luck this will pull some of the pocket out off the top half of the sail. We'll see I guess...

As for "15 to 20 knt plus" wind range, I guess I'm thinking comfortable, sub planning with a low down power feel to the sail in the sub 15 knt stuff, and nicely loaded up when it's hitting 20 knots and a bit above. Much above that I simply get hammered.

I used to have Ezzy Wave SE '07. '08 and then the first of the Panthers. I'll back up the comments that the '07's are very touchy on the rigging side. I used to always rig mine at max downhaul on the 'swoosh' regardless of the wind and then adjust the outhaul to suit. Ezzy's are very touchy when it comes to downhaul compared to almost anything else on the market because they are not a 'rotational' sail like almost every other wave sail out there. This type of shaping gives them a very stable foil profile and huge wind range but rig them wrong at your peril haha, they feel horrible. The top heavy feel you mention is a function of too little downhaul, the sail will also feel. Particularly for the '07 and '08, run max downhaul in all winds and play the outhaul I reckon. They feel much lighter in the hands rigged like that.

I used to run my 5.2 '07 wave SE up to 25kts+ easy in the waves when I couldn't be bothered rigging down, I weigh about 72kg.

I think the pic over <^ there is a 4.7 '07 wave SE, good times

I'd agree on rigging Ezzys and downhaul. I almost always use max downhaul and often just a touch more (2-3mm extra) and adjust outhaul to suit the conditions. You can rely on the coloured outhaul strings to set you up spot on.

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CJW said...
I used to always rig mine at max downhaul on the 'swoosh' regardless of the wind and then adjust the outhaul to suit. Ezzy's are very touchy when it comes to downhaul compared to almost anything else on the market because they are not a 'rotational' sail like almost every other wave sail out there. This type of shaping gives them a very stable foil profile and huge wind range but rig them wrong at your peril haha, they feel horrible. The top heavy feel you mention is a function of too little downhaul.....

Hey Phil,

You aint been stung, you just need to rig it properly. As per my previous post, and also what CJW and IKW have said, heaps of down haul - use the visual settings at the top of the sail, then use the string at the boom to set the outhaul as per the conditions. Easy Peasy - takes away all of the guess work.

Check the rigging guide and rigging video for the 07s online. Used the 07s for 4 years and never had any worries - in fact I found them quite user friendly when rigged as per Dave Ezzy's instructions. I would have bought Panthers when I restocked, but got a bargain on some NPs so I went that way........kind of regreting that decision now due to the fragility of NP compared to Ezzy.

If you want me to run through the rigging of the sail in person let me know. Cheers, AE

My '09 Panthers still look crisp and minty fresh. I don't expect to have to replace them for another couple of years.

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AJEaster said...

CJW said...
I used to always rig mine at max downhaul on the 'swoosh' regardless of the wind and then adjust the outhaul to suit. Ezzy's are very touchy when it comes to downhaul compared to almost anything else on the market because they are not a 'rotational' sail like almost every other wave sail out there. This type of shaping gives them a very stable foil profile and huge wind range but rig them wrong at your peril haha, they feel horrible. The top heavy feel you mention is a function of too little downhaul.....

Hey Phil,

You aint been stung, you just need to rig it properly. As per my previous post, and also what CJW and IKW have said, heaps of down haul - use the visual settings at the top of the sail, then use the string at the boom to set the outhaul as per the conditions. Easy Peasy - takes away all of the guess work.

Check the rigging guide and rigging video for the 07s online. Used the 07s for 4 years and never had any worries - in fact I found them quite user friendly when rigged as per Dave Ezzy's instructions. I would have bought Panthers when I restocked, but got a bargain on some NPs so I went that way........kind of regreting that decision now due to the fragility of NP compared to Ezzy.

If you want me to run through the rigging of the sail in person let me know. Cheers, AE

Hey Adam, sounds good. Next time we meet I'll drag the Ezzy and you can show me what it's spose to look like Cheers for that.

Right, on all advice I just went out and re-rigged the 5.2 Ezzy, and I have to say with max downhaul without a whinch it ended up at 431 cm- which is exactly what the recomendations was. And with a firm amount of outhaul, it actually looks normal! The top of the sail use to have a pocket nearly right to the tip. Now that pocket is no higher than face height, with most at the boom and lower. It may not be rigged perfectly, but I think I've lowered the centre of effort considerably? Hanging to get out and use it again!

Thanks for all the rigging tips and advice.

Cheers

Phil, The second and third batton look like they have a tad too much tensions. Overall the sail also looks like it has a little too much outhaul. The downhaul looks about right.

Yep, that looks about right. Don't be frightened to go a little past the recommended max downhaul if you still feel the sail tugging you around a little in stronger winds. No more than 4-5mm. With the Chinook extensions I find I can set it at the right luff length and then downhaul block to block to get those few extra millimetres.

I most often run my sails slightly over-downhauled and at medium outhaul. Works for me but I do prefer to sail overpowered.

Here's a pic of my 5.8 Panther. Over-downhauled, you'll agree, but I like it.



Also for your reference is this Ezzy Cheetah. This is medium downhaul according to the instructions but I never sail it this way - always on max.





Here is the 5.8 Panther again. This setup was beautifully balanced on a rough, windy, bump n jump day on Moreton Bay. Hope these are useful.

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ikw777 said...
Yep, that looks about right. Don't be frightened to go a little past the recommended max downhaul if you still feel the sail tugging you around a little in stronger winds. No more than 4-5mm. With the Chinook extensions I find I can set it at the right luff length and then downhaul block to block to get those few extra millimetres.

I most often run my sails slightly over-downhauled and at medium outhaul. Works for me but I do prefer to sail overpowered.

Here's a pic of my 5.8 Panther. Over-downhauled, you'll agree, but I like it.



Also for your reference is this Ezzy Cheetah. This is medium downhaul according to the instructions but I never sail it this way - always on max.





Here is the 5.8 Panther again. This setup was beautifully balanced on a rough, windy, bump n jump day on Moreton Bay. Hope these are useful.

Ahh, gotta love pictures! Thanks heaps for that. I can see the sail shape clearly and the (slightly) over downhauled look with the extra floppy top. I'd need a downhaul tool to get that much tension on mine. But mine look slightly like that so I think I'm on the right track.

Too reduce some of the fixed shape can I simply just crank back a few turns on one of the batterns? I'm thinking I'd like the straighten the third battern from the bottom a touch to reduce / drop the wind load more- if that makes sence or a bad idea? And perhaps drop the tension back on the bottom two batterns. They do look a bit cranked up and and ready to buckle. I'll use if first though before changing the battern tension as it may feel more controllable already. Soo much to learn...

Don't play with battens until you've tried the sail. Keep the bottom battens tight as they will keep the power low down where you want it. If your sail has a tack strap use it. Dave Ezzy has videos on setting batten tension correctly for "factory' settings. Explore the Ezzy site or youtube.

For downhauling check the end of this video. Learn the knot he shows and use a thick piece of hardwood dowel, a spare extension or metal tube as a downhaul tool. 300mm is a nice size. Gives you heaps of purchase, is easy on your downhaul line, and is lightning fast to set up and undo. I use an old tube spanner at the moment

Agree with IKW Phil, another touch of downhaul (max 1cm) will get the flop to the red dot which is desirable......doesnt take much extra to loosen the leech more when you have downhauled to the recommended like you have. Well done! Sail looks good.

Will look at the batten tension when we meet up. These sails require a lot of batten tension to keep the shape, but too much creates an 's' shaped batten which is to be avoided.

The 07's have a tack strap which should be tight enough to create a small fold/wrinkle in the foot of the sail which David Ezzy repeats again and again as a normal characteristic of the sail