I was supposed to be selling my Tabou 95 this week, but instead I will be glassing it back together with rovings to pass it on to my groms to trash.
We had a solid NE yesterday with some small, sloppy waves, so I decided to have 1 final blast on the Tabou before selling it this week. 2 hours into the session I rotated a touch too far on a forward, didn't stick my back foot down fast enough and CRACK!!. A perfect condition board, except for the crease all the way across the bottom and wrapping a hand-span up and around one rail.
Why are $2000 waveJUMPING boards still being built so breakable. I was no more than 8-10ft max off the water, and not rotating super fast.
I have absolutely hammered a $700 kiteboard (Underground FLX mutant) for 4 years, 100's and 100's of kiteloop ankle-jarring flat landings, ridden straight onto dry reef/rock, with only tiny scratches and fin nicks to show for years of serious abuse.
I only do necessary jumping with the kiteboard I surf on (heavier landings than on the Tabou yesterday btw). But the Tabou is built for jumping!!
Is it my bodgey sailing/landing style, or is this a widespread issue with windsurf manufacturing?
Not happy!, I'll just go and retrieve my dummy.

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andos said...

I was supposed to be selling my Tabou 95 this week, but instead I will be glassing it back together with rovings to pass it on to my groms to trash.
We had a solid NE yesterday with some small, sloppy waves, so I decided to have 1 final blast on the Tabou before selling it this week. 2 hours into the session I rotated a touch too far on a forward, didn't stick my back foot down fast enough and CRACK!!. A perfect condition board, except for the crease all the way across the bottom and wrapping a hand-span up and around one rail.
Why are $2000 waveJUMPING boards still being built so breakable. I was no more than 8-10ft max off the water, and not rotating super fast.
I have absolutely hammered a $700 kiteboard (Underground FLX mutant) for 4 years, 100's and 100's of kiteloop ankle-jarring flat landings, ridden straight onto dry reef/rock, with only tiny scratches and fin nicks to show for years of serious abuse.
I only do necessary jumping with the kiteboard I surf on (heavier landings than on the Tabou yesterday btw). But the Tabou is built for jumping!!
Is it my bodgey sailing/landing style, or is this a widespread issue with windsurf manufacturing?
Not happy!, I'll just go and retrieve my dummy.

Well I kinda agree as you buy a board with "carbon - glass - wood" or whatever and the amount of each of those components can vary greatly from brand to brand. In some of them the sandwich is 5mm think and on others it is approaching 10mm - but they both have the same description.
I'd like to see the magzines cut a few in half in a test article, not just sail them That will make some manufacturers lift their game.

But I kinda disagree too, as the kiteboard analogy is not that valid. They do not have to float you, so can be a sandwich of all the "good bits" but don't have 3" of (weak) styro in the middle.

Yeah Mark, I agree the comparison is off track, but cutting edge engineering should be built into the cutting edge cost. Why can't the blanks have some anti-twisting reinforcements or go the other way and allow for more twist? (for wave boards atleast). I remember watching carbon boards being laid on 10mm divynicel ontop of styro before being vacuum bagged, that was back in 1986 (BIG news back then!). have board blanks/cores improved at all in the past 25yrs? If not, why not?

You can snap any board doing over rotated forwards. I did the same thing on saturday but snapped my knee off, I know which I would prefer..

It's so easy to snap a board with a flat landing that it is impossible to design a board strong enough to take them.. It would be just too damn heavy and/or stiff. There is a also a huge amount of rotational momentum with a forward, no matter how slow, which only adds to the forces on a board.

If it's broken along the bottom then it's a compression crack, fibres are many times stronger unter tension than compression, so it's practically always a compression crack..

In reality they should make the deck as strong as the hull, as the board is only as strong as the weakest link, and many companies will have a carbon deck and fibreglass bottom. But what can you do, they already cost $2000..

They don't make cars strong enough to crash into houses either.

It's the luck of the draw also, there are too many variables to blame a snapped board on construction alone, it could be a combination of things such as a piece of chop or a unfortunate dent. Just like when a mast snaps inside a wave, you can just get unlucky..

Also, if your forwards look like this then you will snap anything.. Although I've seen a lot of this brand do this haha..

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andos said...

have board blanks/cores improved at all in the past 25yrs? If not, why not?

Epoxy is only as strong as the molecular bonds, the chemistry can't change, Carbon fibre is yet more chemistry, ditto EPS and PVC..

Bad news is I don't think trees have gotten any stronger in the past 200million years, and they are practically built the same, composite+carbon+glue..

Cheers for the vid Barn, it always feels better watching someone else cop it.
The question is should they cost $2000 if they are so easy to break by simply landing flat. I appreciate the extreme forces involved, but these boards are for using in extreme conditions, and getting into extreme situations.
The fatal forward is on video, so I will get hold of it and post for others to chuckle at as I just did at that one.

we all know u can break any board. The shadowbox stats from that comp in the Gorge showed 18G on landing forwards

My issue is why can you get two brands that claim the same construction but one has significantly more material than the other?

When you buy it you don't know what you are getting, it is only when they are a couple of years old and all the longevity issues come out. That is why I am once bitten twice shy and will buy RRD and Starboard waveboards from now on.

I have seen a 2004 Acid that was jumped to the bejeezus at Coronation for 4 years and eventually had a minor crease - then a same year F2 that was cactus in half the time after being jumped by a chick on the swan river and Dutchies (2ft waves max). That is disgraceful when the F2 has the "same" construction (apparently). It in fact had bvgger-all carbon and half the thickness of divinycell, and one layer less glass, plus lower density styro.

So u can break any board, but you can have one that takes longer to break.... or when it does it is more in tact and easier to repair. OR you can have one that sounds the same in the advertising, but breaks easily. Trouble is you don't know until they start breaking...

I spent 10 years away from sailing, and I'm disappointed that getting back into it, I can't just go for it in fairly average conditions without worrying about my board going el-snappo.
It definitely makes it alot harder to justify the $ getting back into sailing.

your avin a laugh mate,,stick with ya mutant fkn flx 1 inch unbreakable underground board,,,,,and smile when you snap a board thats 5 or 6 seasons old

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barn said...


Also, if your forwards look like this then you will snap anything.. Although I've seen a lot of this brand do this haha..

Mate that is a classic.
I've only ever been able to split or crack a board... normally a thin layer of glass on the top still holding it together.

Hats off for snapping it clean in two !
They make pretty good chairs

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WindWarrior said...

Mate that is a classic.
I've only ever been able to split or crack a board... normally a thin layer of glass on the top still holding it together.

That's cause you sail like a pussy...

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WindWarrior said...

barn said...



Mate that is a classic.
I've only ever been able to split or crack a board... normally a thin layer of glass on the top still holding it together.

Hats off for snapping it clean in two !
They make pretty good chairs

Thats not me in the clip btw. I don't want to brand bash RRD but of all the boards I've seen snapped in the last fewyears, most were RRD.. Which is funny because thats one of the brands Mark trusts.. The snaps might have something to do with construction, or just the type of people that buy them.

Glassed to last (HEAVY ) or glassed to blast (Light) = some where in between = good board.......its where the strength is ie the extra wraps of carbon and fiberglass and weight angles of cloths used

Any board is breakable but ..............we all been there can be quite depressing so i say

Busten boards should be celebrated next time make sure its in 2

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barn said...

WindWarrior said...

barn said...



Mate that is a classic.
I've only ever been able to split or crack a board... normally a thin layer of glass on the top still holding it together.

Hats off for snapping it clean in two !
They make pretty good chairs

Thats not me in the clip btw. I don't want to brand bash RRD but of all the boards I've seen snapped in the last fewyears, most were RRD.. Which is funny because thats one of the brands Mark trusts.. The snaps might have something to do with construction, or just the type of people that buy them.

Yeah only the most fuly sik hardkore mofo's use RRD that's why

It's worth reading the comments at the C7 page, for a consensus.. I think it's fair to say board brands wouldn't like too many GoPro clips of their rides snapping in half hahaha..

http://www.continentseven.com/2011/11/01/forward-into-broken-board-jesper-norman/

One guy linked to this video reckons he also snapped it, (no sh!t)

.be

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barn said...
Bad news is I don't think trees have gotten any stronger in the past 200million years, and they are practically built the same, composite+carbon+glue..

Cool analogy! I never really thought of that.

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stehsegler said...

WindWarrior said...

Mate that is a classic.
I've only ever been able to split or crack a board... normally a thin layer of glass on the top still holding it together.

That's cause you sail like a pussy...

I keep reading about boards being broken (agreed any board can be broken in circumstances) but notice that is a high % being production boards that are just being smoked out of a factory, why not just buy a custom board in Australia for the same amount of $$$$$ and out of most of the options i think u will always be getting a better build quality, just my 2c and support aus

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barn said...

at 0:11 what is that bit of yellow/orange foam you can see at the bottom of the broken part?

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swoosh said...

at 0:11 what is that bit of yellow/orange foam you can see at the bottom of the broken part?

Good spotting swoosh -maybe a previous repair with a can of expandable foam or a factory manufacturing problem.

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swoosh said...



at 0:11 what is that bit of yellow/orange foam you can see at the bottom of the broken part?

This year the RRDs are made out of a laminate with..

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EPS / Deck in Full PVC Herex 100 3 mm sandwich with Innegra/Carbon 165 grms and wood sandwich heel sandwich /Bottom in Full PVC Herex 100 3 mm sandwich with Biaxial Glass 160 gramslayup,reinfircements with 2 x PVC stringers 5 mm omega construction/ outside rail band with glass 160 grams.

That board looks like 2010/2011? so it's probs the same.. Most brands have a diagram, but it sounds like it's the yellow/orange Herex showing through the inside lay-up of 160g biaxial glass?.. A big chunk of the inner core probably pulled off with the other half, exposing the bottom sandwich..

From my Tabous I snapped I found there was very minimal resin, so the core would separate quite easily. It's a balance, you don't want the PVC bonded to the core any stronger than the bonds holding the core together..

Although, RRD does not specify if there is an inside layup of glass, between the EPS and the PVC, which is what some commentators at C7 are saying.. This is Madness, if true!!..

He is answering questions on his youtube page, would be good to ask for confirmation..

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Zachery said...

I keep reading about boards being broken (agreed any board can be broken in circumstances) but notice that is a high % being production boards that are just being smoked out of a factory, why not just buy a custom board in Australia for the same amount of $$$$$ and out of most of the options i think u will always be getting a better build quality, just my 2c and support aus

You can snap custom boards too
Split a custom board rail to rail on a fully kooked table top attempt
Height + weight + momentum + flat landing can result in snappage
Add kook factor to the mix and you can almost guarantee a breakage

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WindWarrior said...

Zachery said...

I keep reading about boards being broken (agreed any board can be broken in circumstances) but notice that is a high % being production boards that are just being smoked out of a factory, why not just buy a custom board in Australia for the same amount of $$$$$ and out of most of the options i think u will always be getting a better build quality, just my 2c and support aus

You can snap custom boards too
Split a custom board rail to rail on a fully kooked table top attempt
Height + weight + momentum + flat landing can result in snappage
Add kook factor to the mix and you can almost guarantee a breakage

Take it from me, WW can snap just about anything. I have seen first hand a 2 piece Bombora Astro toy (mega thick plastic sh#t board) after he's "had a go, like real quick."

No engineering or new technologies can account for point loading and load dispersion in regards to unexpected activity/kookedness.

AB.....

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Big Al said...


Take it from me, WW can snap just about anything. I have seen first hand a 2 piece Bombora Astro toy (mega thick plastic sh#t board) after he's "had a go, like real quick."

AB.....

Yeah but it was still in 'one' piece... sort of !!!
The rear strap was still holding the board and tail together

(agreed any board can be broken in circumstances)[:D

The amount of force an 80 kg plus person landing from a great height can put on a piece of light foam covered with a very thin layer of fibreglass is amazing whats more amazing is how long they do actually last for.
From a board making point of view when I used to make quite a few boards the main thing guys wanted was for it to be as light as possible, when someone inspects a new board they want to feel it's weight and most of the time people wouldn't have a clue if it's heavy or light, it's usually the balance from the material distribution that make some people think an average weight board is light. Lighter means less materials, the lighter the board the quicker it will die.
The quality of the material used can make a big difference, a batch of cheap dodgy glass or carbon can come back to bite you big time.
I've made boards for well known board breakers, who have come back and complained that their heels and knees hurt now from landing jumps, but they didn't break the boards
Many years ago the fine print on the production wave boards warranty cards used to say no jumping or arial acrobatics.
I think boards can be made to last using the right materials in the right places, I seen some 9 year old boards I made still going strong, but looking very outdated.

None of us Australian custom manufacturers can afford to be replacing damaged or snaped boards, so it in our best interests to make sure the boards are built right in the first place, to handle far greater stresses then any oversea production boards.
Most of us don't sell our boards through retail shops, this free's up more margin in the end retail price to dedicate into superior stronger and lighter materails.
The fact you can talk direct to the person[ Who in almost all cases is a windsurfer] that is designing and building your new board is a great advantage, so if there are any problems in the future, it can be addressed directly with the manufacturer.

I found this intersting video from Witchcraft sailboards showing a comparison between the strength of dyneema, vs carbon vs glass.

I rememebr an old Naish Board I used which was super tough and claimed to be made oy Dyneema.

Dont know how to imbed it but here is the link.

i saw this vid on boards forum i think (couple of years back) and they were discussing how the fact that the board was already cut in two gave the skin some flex, limiting the damage

were the very early evos dyneema?

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Haircut said...

i saw this vid on boards forum i think (couple of years back) and they were discussing how the fact that the board was already cut in two gave the skin some flex, limiting the damage

were the very early evos dyneema?

Hmmm dunno about the first, he is hitting far enough away frmm the cut in some cases that I don't think there is any benefit in Witchcraft's favour? Particularly when it is close to the nose. One for the engineers here....

Anyway, lots of Starboards used dyneema, it was the layer under the divinycell on the ones I've seen (EVO and Acid) whereas Witchcraft were trying to sell full dyneema construction

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Waiting4wind said...

I found this intersting video from Witchcraft sailboards showing a comparison between the strength of dyneema, vs carbon vs glass.

I rememebr an old Naish Board I used which was super tough and claimed to be made oy Dyneema.

Dont know how to imbed it but here is the link.

That's a good demonstration because now it has made me more aware of those floating hammers you get in the water sometimes. As far as i know none of my boards have dyneema in them so i'll be keeping a real good eye out in the future and if i do see one that i can't avoid i'll make sure only my sail hits it.

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OESaustralia said...

None of us Australian custom manufacturers can afford to be replacing damaged or snaped boards, so it in our best interests to make sure the boards are built right in the first place, to handle far greater stresses then any oversea production boards.
Most of us don't sell our boards through retail shops, this free's up more margin in the end retail price to dedicate into superior stronger and lighter materails.
The fact you can talk direct to the person[ Who in almost all cases is a windsurfer] that is designing and building your new board is a great advantage, so if there are any problems in the future, it can be addressed directly with the manufacturer.

Sensational post OES. It's very refreshing and inspiring to hear from an Oz manufacturer with an attitude like yours. I will be looking much closer to home, and investing in a local manufacturer next time around.
Thanks for your point of view.