I'd like to renew a board which has taken on water. A starboard kode wave.

It was (still is) my light to medium wind board. Weight is 68-70kg or 150-155lbs.

Max sail size is 4.7. From my experience and research, boards I'm looking at are: Tabou Pocket, JP FSW, RRD wave cult, Goya Custom 3.

Requirements: board volume 85, width 58-60, moderate tail, front foot sharp turns, low speed planing.

How does my list sound to you?
Would you add others?

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Manuel7 said..
I'd like to renew a board which has taken on water. A starboard kode wave.

It was (still is) my light to medium wind board. Weight is 68-70kg or 150-155lbs.

Max sail size is 4.7. From my experience and research, boards I'm looking at are: Tabou Pocket, JP FSW, RRD wave cult, Goya Custom 3.

Requirements: board volume 85, width 58-60, moderate tail, front foot sharp turns, low speed planing.

How does my list sound to you?
Would you add others?

Goya Custom 3 86 (even 81 )2021 bar none.

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sprayblaze said..
Goya Custom 3 86 (even 81 )2021 bar none.

A friend of mine is using those here an 81 and a 91. Similar weight. He was on a Angulo Triumph before (which I tested here: windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/#2016-Angulo-Triumph) and I noticed a big improvement in his turns!

I'd add a Flywave based on chatting with the designer.

I have a Custom 3 and can say it is a super early planing board and front foot friendly. Go single fin if you want more speed and quicker pivot style turns. I found the stock MFC thrusters to be quite slow.

Quatro pyramid, not too early planing but front foot orientated.

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Manuel7 said..
I'd like to renew a board which has taken on water. A starboard kode wave.

It was (still is) my light to medium wind board. Weight is 68-70kg or 150-155lbs.

Max sail size is 4.7. From my experience and research, boards I'm looking at are: Tabou Pocket, JP FSW, RRD wave cult, Goya Custom 3.

Requirements: board volume 85, width 58-60, moderate tail, front foot sharp turns, low speed planing.

How does my list sound to you?
Would you add others?

I'm not sure this makes sense.

To me, backfoot or front font sailing is about stance and how you set the board up.
If you're 70kgs then most 85 litre wave boards should be early planing.

But both of the above aspects of a wave board will be about the rocker line and the plan rail curves.


What's a 'front foot sharp turn' ?

People will just answer this sort of question with their favourite board, usually their only board.

Boards like the Severne Nano are very back foot orientated, same for stubby and a lot of onshore boards.
Front foot boards are usually more traditional shapes, curved outlines and not parrallel railed. Usually that is.

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Madge said..
Boards like the Severne Nano are very back foot orientated, same for stubby and a lot of onshore boards.
Front foot boards are usually more traditional shapes, curved outlines and not parrallel railed. Usually that is.

I agree, I will also put Quatro Mini, Tabou Pocket 2017 onwards and its latest incarnation the Da Bomb in the mix-these are short boards 214-218 range, fat, wide tails, back strap too far back, flat rocker- and yes, you have to ride and turn them with more backfoot pressure. But once you want to lean forward and to engage that rail they are crap. I had a spell with such "wave" boards, because of their short length and easy storage. In onshore mush and strong winds they work because they fit in well. But once the waves get more pronounced they are no par to a real wave board. On the other hand a true wave board can be ridden front, back, middle.. whatever depending on your skills. So every board claiming to be "wave" below 220, is everything else but not "wave" imho. Of course there are a bunch of other things, but short length(ex. vol.83l, 57.5 cm width, 218 length) is more marketing bells and whistles.

Im not sure if such a shape in comparison of your Kode exists Manuel. As mentioned before the Quatro Pyramid is a Board for more front food oriented riding styles. But in comparison to your Kode you had always to work a bit to keep it going and u need a certain level of fitness and skill to really get the potential of that board. From my view not a board for a weekend warrior. You can also check the Quatro Cube or Goya C4 for example and use them as Twinser. I've a 93l Cube at 75kg for 4.7 and 4.4 weather. Both are much easier to surf compared to the Pyramid and you can also work on your front foot riding on both of them.

I don't think that it is a marketing thing only, I simply think that it is related to different sailing styles and also the conditions that we typically sail in. I do wish that I could bottom turn like Levi Siver but I don't think that it would ever work on my local spot.

I've tried both the Quatro mini and the Goya custom pro thruster in Pozo and on a typical high tide day, with my skill level, I could do a lot more on the Quatro mini, while the Goya felt out of place for me on the way in. Great speed for jumping but I struggled to make it turn sharp enough while maintaining speed.

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sprayblaze said..

But once you want to lean forward and to engage that rail they are crap. I had a spell with such "wave" boards, because of their short length and easy storage. In onshore mush and strong winds they work because they fit in well. But once the waves get more pronounced they are no par to a real wave board. On the other hand a true wave board can be ridden front, back, middle.. whatever depending on your skills. So every board claiming to be "wave" below 220, is everything else but not "wave" imho. Of course there are a bunch of other things, but short length(ex. vol.83l, 57.5 cm width, 218 length) is more marketing bells and whistles.

I agree, and will say that 220 min is possibly a bit more in a 'normal' size board of 80-90L - 222, 223 ish....

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback!

I'm not sure how boards like the 2007 Tabou DaCurve can work in all conditions and yet have super fast planing. (traversa mentioned it was his all time favorite)

Agree with the above, a wave board should be easy to turn no matter what.

Bash, the way I see a front foot sharp turn is when loading up the whole rail the board carves hard and can be pressured harder to turn tighter. Freewave board will be stiff or worse stall with doing this.

It's also a style thing. Conditions I'm shooting for is light wind and side side on. True side on is not my thing (soft wave).

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback!

I'm not sure how boards like the 2007 Tabou DaCurve can work in all conditions and yet have super fast planing. (traversa mentioned it was his all time favorite)

Agree with the above, a wave board should be easy to turn no matter what.

Bash, the way I see a front foot sharp turn is when loading up the whole rail the board carves hard and can be pressured harder to turn tighter. Freewave board will be stiff or worse stall with doing this.

It's also a style thing. Conditions I'm shooting for is light wind and side side on. True side on is not my thing (soft wave).

Pure wave, add 6-9 liters, use smaller rear fins.

I reckon that Sprayblaze and Hanstohlm are spot on and actually wrote pretty much the same thing in the stubby thread before reading their posts. Also agree with Mark that you don't want to go too short even though it is much easier to fit into the car.

The reason I wrote what I did, above, is because I was wondering if we are all on the same page here. What is a front foot wave board and what is a back foot one? How do you define that difference ?
To me, it is just too simplistic if we just say with a front foot board you have to load the front foot in a turn, whereas a backfoot board needs more load on the back foot.

The truth, as I see it, is that there are waveboard shapes which turn more easily naturally when you load the rail, and then there are shapes which require better technique and the use of rig drive to turn them. Both types can be winners. Both need controlled weight on each foot.

Here are a few notes explaining this in greater detail.

1) The traditional curvaceous wave board has a lot of width in the middle and the board volume is also concentrated there. This width means as soon as you bank the board over onto the rail that rail acts as a brake and the board turns easily to that side. Having Vee and rocker will also help this classic rail carve turn. This may be what you mean by a frontfoot board.
Are my Severne Pyros and Starboard Ultra Kode then front foot boards?

2) A lot of modern boards have less width in the middle and are often almost parallel sided. This means the volume is more evenly spread over the board ( and it's helpful to have volume under the tail to support sailor weight). These style of boards are turned in one of two ways, you either engage the rail hard and use backhand rig pressure to drive the board through the turn, or else you stand on the back of the board (back foot pressure) and crank it around on the tail, because there is more rail curve in the back third of the board. Vee and extra rocker and tail kick will still help in either case. This is maybe what some people call a backfoot board.
Are my Severne Nano and Severne Dynos all back foot boards?

3) In truth, most modern boards are a combination of both the above categories, and rocker line is as important as rail shape in determining how turny a board is, and how fast and how early-planing.

4) We also learn to sail what we have, and we can fine-tune it. If you get on a new board and find it doesn't turn as easily as your previous one, then try a different stance - move stuff. The advantage of the parallel-sided board is you can engage a lot of rail very quickly and without losing speed, and the key to the bottom turn on a wave is not always to stand on the tail but to lean forwards and we can push the tail around as when hard carving a snowboard or skis. You just have to commit more. I would not describe that technique as simply a backfoot turn. (Although admittedly I am more likely to use the backfoot for the cranked top turn, whilst also stomping on the windward rail with my front foot heel - I'm weighting the rear section of the rail compared to when bottom turning. )

5) The danger in thinking you have a backfoot board or a front foot one, is you set the footstraps to suit that prejudice - and the key to tuning all modern wave board is to have the front footstraps set well forwards, and try and keep your mast foot aft of centre track. It's the upright rig stance that actually helps you turn the board better - any board.

6) The other mistake people often make is to sail their wave board with fins that are too big for your weight or for the sail sizes you are using. Once you have learnt to control weight on both of your feet you don't need a lot of fin area, and indeed it may be using too much fin area that is stopping your waveboard from turning easily, requiring you to load the backfoot more.


This is pretty advanced 'stance' advice and tuning stuff which I have thought about a lot when moving between my many current wave boards - and dating right back to the days when I had custom wave boards made for me.
But I'm also sure there are some better wave sailors than me who might be reading this. If so, please feel free to disagree, or to explain things in another way.
Interesting stuff?

Hi
Regarding the Goya thruster 2018, I've tested the 81 and bought the 86. Both are very good turning boards. However, I've had some 85 boards before and the 86 is quite small for its theoretical volume. I bought the 86 as medium-light wind board for my size (69 Kg) and it's a bit small, even the width is of a bigger board (58 cm). I don't know whether the following 2020 thruster goya model has changed this or not.

Cheers.

The starboard ultra Kode Kevin Pritchard pro model is the most front foot board I've ever sailed, feeling the board slide below my front foot was incredible.

On the contrary, the Angulo Triumph is the most back foot of all wave boards I tried.

In the end, it's above all a personal preference and style. I've always preferred turny boards no matter the situation.

When wave riding the only time I use my sail is at drop in to build up as much speed as possible then it's all timing with a depowered sail. If my sail powers up during the turn I feel like I lose the connection with the wave and more like sailing the wave than surfing the wave.

The starboard ultra Kode Kevin Pritchard pro model is the most front foot board I've ever sailed, feeling the board slide below my front foot was incredible.

On the contrary, the Angulo Triumph is the most back foot of all wave boards I tried.

In the end, it's above all a personal preference and style. I've always preferred turny boards no matter the situation.

When wave riding the only time I use my sail is at drop in to build up as much speed as possible then it's all timing with a depowered sail. If my sail powers up during the turn I feel like I lose the connection with the wave and more like sailing the wave than surfing the wave.

Sounds like you need another ultra kode then. ;)
I haven't sailed it but I believe the 2019 model had more fin choices (five boxes), so that could be a step forward.

For sure. Did I read that the DaCurve has better planing ability than the Pocket? Their tri only version is also pretty light.

How about the fanatic new wave in single 91L?

I tried the new wave twin in 86, felt small: windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/#2010-Fanatic-NewWave

A pretty decent light wind session made me realize that I could use the whole rail including nose to get my freewave to turn.

I may need to come down a little bit more but it felt pretty good! The board feels super stiff even over the back foot but with the nose rocker I was able to crank up the wave nicely.

I had read this before, makes sense to me. The turning radius is a bit more predefined but the carving feel is much better than justing muscling over the back foot, at least to me.

That said 77L is too small for light days, Ukrainian roulette when crossing the break!

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Manuel7 said..
For sure. Did I read that the DaCurve has better planing ability than the Pocket? Their tri only version is also pretty light.

No no...

I do the Tabou/Gaastra support (teamrider) and i can comment on this question.
The newer Da Curve is faster to plane then the older Da Curve's but the older Pocket or newer Da Bomb boards are for sure faster ,and easier, to get planning. The newer Da Curve 88/96 are also very good at this and especially for a radical front footed wave board.
The older Pocket (stubby) 77 and newer Da Bomb 77 are the same shape and that one is a bit more technical and i think that this board and the newer Da Curve 76 are pretty close. The Da Curve 82 is a bit in between.

Thanks for the info. Good wind is back so I'm good until next fall :D ! Hopefully more options pop up until then...

Are there ANY front foot oriented boards that don't plane OK?

^^^ Yes. Are you going to tell us they're all lil rockets?
If I understand the question correctly he wants down the line oriented boards that don't turn totally off the back foot like very modern short (usually onshore oriented) boards often do. He wants (like madge said) more traditional front foot oriented board..... but often they are slower to plane. Usually they are a ho'okipa board. Usually the more back foot / modern stubby are an allround real world wave style.
Not always but I think its a fair generalisation.

So yes, there are frontfoot style wave boards that don't plane as well. as most other waveboards. Quite a few I'd think. Sounds like he wants to know which are the slightly faster rockered ones that will feel like his older Kode (highly regarded board, so no wonder)

Well I got a 2015 Goya One in 85L coming. It's 59cm wide with lots of volume under feet. Sounds like planing is excellent, let's cross fingers it's decent on a wave, or rather on our wave.

In regards to your latest comments. Some generations Goya quad are great planers, the fanatic grip seems good, the dacurve on some generations. And curiously it's often at the detriment of some wave performance!

Sorry, I thought the title was PLANE OK...nothing about TURN ok.
Plane ok...add more volume, more wind, bigger wave or sail.
"Traditional" is front foot oriented?
So what is an old fashion single fin?

And do we have to revisit the conflict of..."every fricken new wave board has a narrow tail located forward of center?"