Hi guys,

I have an 85l fanatic freewave stb. I have a single fin for bump n jump and it works really well in those conditions. I have tried taking it in waves and it feels stiff compared to a wave board ?tried my mates).

I know I will not get wave board performance but what can I do with fin setup, footstraps and mast base?

It has 3 fin boxes, PB centre and slot side fins.


Cheers??

What (single) fin size you using?

To make a board looser the answer will usually be to use a shorter fin or less fin area - this is so the board rides on it's tail less...

I would recommend you use the board with a tri fin set up but keep the total fin area as low as possible. On my 85litre board I use a 16cms centre fin + 12cms thrusters. Heavier guys might prefer a 20cms centre fin with maybe 10cms thrusters.

Shifting the mast foot back in the track should also help, using the rear half of the track only. And make sure the front footstraps are set well forwards.

Hi Basha

It's a 26cm single which is stock.

I have tried it with a 20cm single when it was absolutely howling and gusting 55-60knots and that was usable.

As a single, most sailors use 22-24 wave shape fins.
With the sidebites, try the 20 forwards, or a 22 forwards.
If you push out, you can move them back, but the board becomes stiff in the turns.

18 and 10cm. Maybe 20cm and 10cm if you are heavy.
K4 makes reasonably priced sides and their asymmetrical ones can free up a board.

Agree with you Grant. Possibly smaller than others have said, I had a pintail FSW 95L that came with 17 cm and 11 sidies. The 17 was pretty low chord and flexy (ish) also
With the wider tail on the stubby maybe not that extreme ..... I reckon 18 and 11 could be nice n loose but not too skatey

Tuddydug - try also k4 fronts - 10cm and 3deg .... helps turn inititation ... and maybe 18 rear swept back dolphin style ... as Basher says - mastfoot slightly rear of centre ... or even further back - you need to disengage that flatter rocker under the mastfoot a little , and turn right off the back ...

I've been sailing the stubby designs in onshore for a few years now and I think they need an exaggerated technique to get the best out of their characteristics. Due to the more voluminous tail I use a lot more body weight over the rail and definately lean further back which takes a bit of confidence if the rider is new to the waves. I also found on a trip to maui that my favourite home board (stubby 99) for onshore mush was a real dog in real down the line due to the width of the tail and fat volumus rails which required a much wider radius and crazy amounts of mast foot pressure via the sail and boom to stop it from straight lining and skipping.

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LeeD said..
As a single, most sailors use 22-24 wave shape fins.
With the sidebites, try the 20 forwards, or a 22 forwards.
If you push out, you can move them back, but the board becomes stiff in the turns.

The board has a powerbox , it's always forward.

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Basher said..
What (single) fin size you using?

To make a board looser the answer will usually be to use a shorter fin or less fin area - this is so the board rides on it's tail less...

I would recommend you use the board with a tri fin set up but keep the total fin area as low as possible. On my 85litre board I use a 16cms centre fin + 12cms thrusters. Heavier guys might prefer a 20cms centre fin with maybe 10cms thrusters.

Shifting the mast foot back in the track should also help, using the rear half of the track only. And make sure the front footstraps are set well forwards.

This is very sound advise. My 83 liter, Tri, not the Fanatic, I use 16cm and 10-12.5 depending on wind, and other sea state. I rarely alter the mast track, but don't discount that it does move. I would also set footstraps forward and inboard.
my what I've read this is a bitchin board. Fin area , a consideration, as someone's 16 may be the area as another's 17.5.
i like asymmetrical sides, another area of discussion , that involves toe in, and a paragraph like a chapter from War And Peace, so lengthy.
i would suggest a set of K4 with a little built in toe, 1 degree, very reasonable in cost, in a variety of stiffness and profiles.
hope you are keeping well Basher, sad times indeed right now

Force ten, you can buy PB fins set forward, centered, and back, from DIFFERENT companies. You know that!

Stock tri setup is fine. Some people actually find it a bit too loose. Otherwise, backfoot only, it's got a fat tail so need to clear more nose off of the water in the turns. Similarly if you go too low with the fins, the fat tail may send you.... better not say.

It's quite skatish over your backfoot while retaining amazing momentum (rear volume helps there too).

So think pivot before rail digging.

Read my whole review?

windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/#2017-Fanatic-Freewave-STB

Tuddydog - just quick Note - a more flexy rear , something like K4 Skorcher , will sometimes let that tail release a bit nicer / earlier .... and 26cm is never going to feel nice ... Try a smaller 20 say , on an average power day (keep the 26 in the car everyday ) ... and the long road is - get used to using it everything incl underpowered conditions ... then go down to an 18 .... for nicer wave rides ... Using big fins is like using stabilisers on a bike - at some point if you want to progress - you need to wean off them ... (think how stabilisers fudge the tarmac turns !!!)

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LeeD said..
Force ten, you can buy PB fins set forward, centered, and back, from DIFFERENT companies. You know that!

No,I never heard of any such thing on pb fins, I did have a tuttle that was like that.
the fins I have used would take a hour to post.
Why not post a photo of the center fore aft, pb fins along with the board you made? You will quiet your critiques.
surely some 13 yo can help with a photo
i think you didn't know the Fanatic has a pb, non adjustable fin, and you type away without brain engaged.

Well, you're correct, didn't even think about it because you can find PB box fin set forwards or back, if you bother to look.

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Makani Fin , company have what I think you are referring to.
The base is rear wards , allowing a portion of the fin to be , a tab so to speak be placed on the board. Most all that they have are weed fins, which are raked backwards.

One a freestyle fin has this .This I found also on a MFC , again weed.

Since no change on the position occurs rear wards , they are not a option for fore aft movement. They are probably set on the base this way cause that's what works best for this style fin, and some additional structor resting on the board bottom.

Their are no,options to purchase the same fin with the base in a different location.

It's the way they are.

Your post is misleading in how it pertains to adjustment.

These fins are set like shown. No many , would suit the Fanatic .

Now find a pic of Kaku weed and see it's set farther back. Then a true weed farther back.

Oh really. That Makani fin is a wave fin, it set square in the middle.
you really have a problem , you can't read, your can't see, you make no sense 99.9 % of the time.

I'm thinking that perhaps I could build an adapter to mount SB fins in a PB board. If I can get access to my machine shop again I'll make a prototype.
Would definitely create options for smaller FSW boards with PB boxes.

Ono weed freewave! Doesn't say w a v e.
Kaku, not made by Makani, is set further back.

LeeD, could you please stop ruining good , informative threads with your argumentative and irrelevant crap?
It's getting really tedious for everyone here.

Thanks, Hoops

Sure, but my 3 power box wave fins have totally different COE's and 2 are True Ames.
Then my 4+ freeware Pb fins are set forward, somewhat mid, and very back.
Not to mention my pointer Pb fins which are all different in COE.
That is OPTIONS, for and aft.

The above post demonstrates my point perfectly.

Yes, fin placement options exist with powerbox boards.

Some reflections on what I recall about LeeD, who also has used other names, even on the same forum ( IWindsurf)
he was on the swaylocks surf forum, he was driven off, same reasons as he continues here, irreverent posts and when asked to define a statement , he would ignore it, same as here, show us the photo proof,of the boards you have made, never forthcoming. The surf board shapers on there, flat out know their stuff.
Boards UK forum, prior to its demise, the Brits , sussed him out straight away, he hung around awhile,he figured out that a quad fin board exists, and bought the first year Starboard quad, when it was about 8 yo, I don't think he has ever understood what fin boxes it has.
I windsurf , USA forum, mostly people ignore him,oh some will get entertained , and engage , same as the above, he's active , discussion is far less techy, so he gets away with a lot.

A statement that he made, any mast will work in any sail. Actually true, except he didn't add that if it's not compatible , you will give up a lot of performance, and it depends on how much range the sail had to start, and how much one is willing to give up.
Crowning glory , he lived in a Honda Civic, I think near Berkerly, California , t hat should indicate something right there, a nice big Yank station wagon or van would have been much better, and he could build boards inside.
He never changed the oil in the Honda.
I don't take anything from him serious, if I read his crap, I forget it as soon as I can. His current rant on iwinsurf is powerbox fins are available in A variety of fore aft fittings thus making the powerbox adjustable , by using different fins.(the base being oriented nose or tailward. At some point he sailed a lot, I only know one person who actually knows him.I probably sailed on the water at Berkerly, Candlestick , Alameda with him, but wouldn't know him. I've never heard him say anything about Rio Vista , California., nor Hood River ,Hawaii lots ,
and south of SanFrancisco, ocean venues, Waddell, Santa Cruz areas.
He must have thick skin to resist so much dissension, for so long by some many.

About half correct. Never used another name.
Never in UK forum, but how do I get in?
Ask Andy B or Jason at Rio. They'll both tell you I know more than you and also sail better.
Ask Wyatt, Tyson about me. Same thing.
Ask Rob Warick at the Gorge.
Ask Kevin K, or Sofien, or Steve S, Mike P.
None will say I'm less than advanced rec sailor.
And a whole lot more knowledgeable than you.
From 23 years of selling windsurf gear.

And you're afraid to reveal your name!
Those guys I mentioned all have sailed with me.

And yes, 2 of my Civics lasted 300,000 miles, neither getting an oil change after 200,00.

Still registered at Swaylocks, in good standing.
So you lie! Spreading false info is lying.
Got kicked out of Starboard forums by Ian Fox for insisting a long boom multicam sail works on Formula. 5.7 sizing. 2 other Starboard forum guys apologized on private messaging.
Steve Sylvester used a 4.7 on his Formula board. And still uses a 4.7 on his 90cm Tillo.

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forceten said..

We're a bit off topic here but these fins are interesting.
In theory you 'could' shift a powerbox fin in the head molding, so as to move the fin area forwards or backwards in a box that has no fore-and-aft adjustment. But that would mean that the fin body would have less engineered connection with the powerbox head fitting and would therefore be weaker.

What is shown in the diagram above is something else. It's a weed fin, and so it has a leading edge which is raked back to help those sailing in weed-troubled waters. The extreme angle for the leading edge is supposed to help get the weed off.
This fin shown is set further forward in its powerbox head so as to try and keep the centre of fin area further forwards. But in fact that's a bit of an illusion because of you cut that small sharp corner off at the front you'd be left with the truth - which is a weak fin that is very angled back, and the centre of area is still too far back compared what it should be, with a normal more upright fin. This fin would make the board handling seem a bit weird, I'd predict.

But, for sure, weed in the water is a problem.
Multi fin boards seem to have helped solve that issue, but for areas where light winds necessitate bigger rigs, then a weed fin (single fin as here) is still probably the necessary compromise.

Then again, anyone trying to use a weed fin to retune their powerbox board in weed-free waters had better explain why on earth anyone would choose to do that. That kinda assumes that the designer has put the box in the wrong place, and only a numpty would suggest that.

All of this friendly banter reminds me of when I invented waves.

It was back in the day. You can ask anyone about it, Mickey M, Donald D, Homer S, hell even Woody WP and Wiley C will tell you.

It must have been 66 or maybe 44, there I was stood on the beach on the north shore, well I hadn't created beaches yet so really it was just the shoreline, in fact, I hadn't discovered the ocean either so it was really just a random spot, but anyway. There were all these people stood around but with nowhere to go and nothing to do. Nobody had even though of waves by then. Down south they didn't have any, over east none, downunder they didn't even understand.

So I created the first wave. Not a real world wave like you get nowadays but a proper wave you could ride and turn on.

// List of random names.

Everybody commented how awesome I was at coming up with such a thing. So I told them - here have one of my surfboards and go surf. So they did. Lucky for them they had legs, real legs mind you, not those mushy legs Aussie's have nowadays.

And that is how it happened. Back in the day. Well, back in my day.