I haven't sailed in decent surf for over 20 years but I still enjoy reminiscing over pictures and videos. I was watching Windsurfing TV's story on floaty jumps which WA one of my favourite things. It occurred to me than nobody does nose first landings any more. I wonder if that is because the mast is so much further back these days? Maybe everyone is jumping higher.

Antoine Martin is doing it sometimes in Pozo. It was shown by Ben Proffitt in one of his Pozo diaries.

Apart from him I guess you re right, nobody's doing it these days.

Also in the 2000 recap VHS from the pwa, shared on their FB yesterday, there was this guy doing some super weird floaty jump where he put himself above the kit on the apex... Never seen that before!

I remember doing floaty jumps with the aim of landing nose first on the back of the next wave. Almost no loss of speed, rare but an awesome feeling. It was a long time ago but I think that's what happened in my avatar photo. That or I smacked into the face of the next wave and winded myself.

A couple of old school guys do it here. I only do it on long jumps to preserve speed. They do it after big high jumps cool looking!

Couple of pie floaters i got sent (Nice shooting Niko}







Coronation Beach Summer of 2017 18

Too old and fat these days to do many floaters..

Good question, and still not a single answer from anyone to this great mystery, apart from your suggestion of mast track position. There must be an answer because nose first landings feel better, look better, and are softer and keep your speed up better. Whenever I land tail first I feel like I've failed. I try to land all jumps nose first except my very highest jumps where I wimp out, and table tops because I don't have time ... always meant to try one but it would take excess height and I reckon it'd be easy to get out of shape as you uncoil ... I'll put it back on my to do list. I think the only one I ever saw was by Mike Waltze about 35 years ago, and I thought yeah that's the obvious next step for a pro.
As for mast track position, I don't recall trying one in my limited experience with multifins, but I doubt they're that different, and anyway people stopped landing nose first before multifins arrived.

A successful landing is where you don't hit the water at full speed, stopping dead. The undissipated energy will break the board - or hurt you.

So the nose first landing is also called a scoop landing where you come down in height while still heading forwards , so the nose touches down first but then continues onwards again. The board is supposedly saved from breakage by its nose puncturing the surface of the water first and the energy being dissipating by the scoop. Boards have less nose rocker nowadays and are wider so this technique has fallen from favour.

A tail first landing is easier because it allows you to use the rig as a parachute to slow the descent and, in dropping the tail so that hits the water first, you reduce the risk of creasing the board. You can still do a tail first landing and keep moving forwards, even planing onwards if you have good control.

This of course is the theory. The higher the jump, the more you tend to lose forward momentum, so flat landings are likely.
If I'm super high and feel I'm just dropping out of the sky, then I bail. #chicken #boardsareexpensive

In the 80's I always tried to land nose first, even the biggest jumps. I agree with wendell in that a tail landing feels like failure and it means the next wave might get you if you are too slow. I was out of the sport for all the 90's and early 2000's. Since back, I am older and slower and probably not as brave. I find nose landing really tricky now. Lack of skill is the most likely problem, but I also think the wider noses with much more volume up front of modern boards (that I use anyway) make it more difficult. I remember I could bury the nose and scoop (as Basher writes) it back to the surface. These days when I try that I get a lot less penetration into the water and a lot of bounce off the surface. My theory is because of this extra buoyancy everything is more critical and therefore requiring better timing, better entry angles therefore harder.The reason I think none does them much is that jumping is now all about rotation, so you see a lot less of the floaty jumps on a given day. On the Gold Coast we are lucky to get enough wind to jump at all, happy just to get out so we can ride waves.

Also back loops are typically landed nose first. Of course these are not straight floaty jumps, but the descent after the rotation and landing sometimes resembles the old skool floaty jump landing.

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wendell said..
Good question, and still not a single answer from anyone to this great mystery, apart from your suggestion of mast track position. There must be an answer because nose first landings feel better, look better, and are softer and keep your speed up better. Whenever I land tail first I feel like I've failed. I try to land all jumps nose first except my very highest jumps where I wimp out, and table tops because I don't have time ... always meant to try one but it would take excess height and I reckon it'd be easy to get out of shape as you uncoil ... I'll put it back on my to do list. I think the only one I ever saw was by Mike Waltze about 35 years ago, and I thought yeah that's the obvious next step for a pro.
As for mast track position, I don't recall trying one in my limited experience with multifins, but I doubt they're that different, and anyway people stopped landing nose first before multifins arrived.

I still love tucking the tail of my board up under my arse and landing nose first. It's the best feeling, but you are correct, nobody else seems to do it anymore. I think it was easier on the old boards with more infront of the mast and more nose kick, but I still do them on the new boards.
I know exactly the table top nose first landing by Mike Waltze of which you sreak. Trade winds. What a film. I think it's time someone made Tradewinds ll.

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stonny said..

I still love tucking the tail of my board up under my arse and landing nose first. It's the best feeling, but you are correct, nobody else seems to do it anymore. I think it was easier on the old boards with more infront of the mast and more nose kick, but I still do them on the new boards.
I know exactly the table top nose first landing by Mike Waltze of which you sreak. Trade winds. What a film. I think it's time someone made Tradewinds ll.

I think I used to enjoy spending as much time as possible in the air (without getting too high in case I pooped my wettie).

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stonny said..

wendell said..
Good question, and still not a single answer from anyone to this great mystery, apart from your suggestion of mast track position. There must be an answer because nose first landings feel better, look better, and are softer and keep your speed up better. Whenever I land tail first I feel like I've failed. I try to land all jumps nose first except my very highest jumps where I wimp out, and table tops because I don't have time ... always meant to try one but it would take excess height and I reckon it'd be easy to get out of shape as you uncoil ... I'll put it back on my to do list. I think the only one I ever saw was by Mike Waltze about 35 years ago, and I thought yeah that's the obvious next step for a pro.
As for mast track position, I don't recall trying one in my limited experience with multifins, but I doubt they're that different, and anyway people stopped landing nose first before multifins arrived.

I still love tucking the tail of my board up under my arse and landing nose first. It's the best feeling, but you are correct, nobody else seems to do it anymore. I think it was easier on the old boards with more infront of the mast and more nose kick, but I still do them on the new boards.
I know exactly the table top nose first landing by Mike Waltze of which you sreak. Trade winds. What a film. I think it's time someone made Tradewinds ll.

I think it's just harder & scarier to land nose first. In the Gorge we have allot of old school jumping sailors & big floaty nose first is still popular. I always try to land nose first but it is tricky when it's high - then I usually just set the tail in & call it a "safety air". Don't think its equipment thing you can still tuck it in & land nose first on modern gear... Here is low one with Quad & mast track right back...

My phrase for a "safety air" is "putting the landing gear down early." You even see the pros do it - on flatter jumps they'll be coming in slightly nose first, looking good, then just before touch down they drop the tail. It looks wrong and they lose more speed than they would nose landing.

There are two types of nose landings, one is a long lowish jump where you have plenty of forward momentum so you don't sink the nose, you only land slightly nose first. In the other you drop steeply with little or no forward momentum and the nose can safely go under, though it doesn't have to because you rapidly flatten the board as soon as the nose touches. The cross over point is the trickiest - a long high jump where you're hitting the water with enough forward speed that you don't want the nose to go under, but coming down fast and steeply enough that a slight nose landing can be harsh, like a flat landing.

I noticed this good example of a nose landing in this video in the General forum.
It's at 5:35, and for the history buffs, check the two jumps from 6:30, bearing in mind this is 1986 (at the latest) so back loops had only recently been landed. I wonder what Robby thought he was doing.

Survival floater to get out of the danger zone (Sprint reef Gnaraloo)

BYRON MARSH Floating a Back loop Hawaii 91


Dean Ryles waver slayer early 90s


SHARKS BAY WA jumped off then on a down wind trawling run



Sam Deslands Beach Port SA 90s

Dale Cook is considered a master of floaty jumps at the Gorge. He appears to get extra height & air time by lifting the windward rail.

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albers said..
Dale Cook is considered a master of floaty jumps at the Gorge. He appears to get extra height & air time by lifting the windward rail.

Boy that looks like fun ! I wish I could sail like that..

Remery, I love the nose first landings too. BUT, I rarely do them. A number of criteria have to be met for me to attempt even before considering making them.
If you're going quick, then the angle at which the nose touches down needs to be narrow. If you're going quick, the jump needs to be low in height and flattish. Then you can touch the nose down first and stay in control.
If you're going slower and get lots of height, then I think you can 'parachute' down, and near touchdown, rotate weight forwards and go in nose first.
Now, I've never attempted this but IF you were going fast and got super high, I would IMAGINE you could again parachute down to wipe off speed, and then weight forward and nose down. I suspect this would be very difficult.
Last criteria is for flattish water, as nose into chop would mean crashing over the handlebars again....

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sboardcrazy said..

albers said..
Dale Cook is considered a master of floaty jumps at the Gorge. He appears to get extra height & air time by lifting the windward rail.

Boy that looks like fun ! I wish I could sail like that..

I wish we had conditions like that here, so jealous.

I remember in the ol days it was either nose or tail landings , the middle kind of hurt .
Fast forward thirty years a few thing have changed .
1 , I don't get real air anymore
and
2 , I think when the mast was at the front of the board it felt easier doing nose first landings.
It scares me now thinking that I'll do that with the mast only a foot from my feet.

Old school airtime.

Auckland Harbour, mid 80s. Strong westerly 4.0

Somewhere north of Perth, early 90s.

Woodmans Point, WA late 80s. Howling westerly 3.0

That's the kind of jumps I remember , landing in that position , ready to waterstart .
I thought it was cool to get the mast tip to hit the water before me.
Things have changed ....... like skill.

Id be more concerned about why no one tabletops anymore youth of today!!

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geared4knots said..
Id be more concerned about why no one tabletops anymore youth of today!!

Not a youth but still like to do those on modern gear .... actually seen some great ones on the PWA...