Hi wave winders, recently surprised by a German test mentioning that the wave slate planed earlier than the stubby, I wondering if someone here had experience with the wave slate and in what conditions you would recommend using it.

I have the Fanatic Stubby for a few years. It was my favourite board over the 30 plus years of windsurfing. It's not a float and ride board as far as I am concerned but the beauty of it is it's ability to get up on a plane really quick, hammer up wind and gouge some really powerful and snappy turns. It loves being pushed hard. It has real wave fins and a very lively feel in punchy shorebreaks and weaker waves. Went awesome up to about 3/4 mast high smoothish cross off as well but that was about it's limit, for me anyway.
Jp Wave Slate appears to have a slightly flatter rocker and more upright centre fin which should allow earlier planning and slightly more upwind ability. These were the defining differences for me going for the Fanatic Stubby. Every board has a degree of compromise in one way or another. I wanted the board to still thrive as a surf board. It delivered on all counts without any real compromise on planning or wave performance.
I personally think the Wave Slate to be closer the Free- Wave styled boards Easy to plane, go up wind and turn OK.
Often the board manufacturers put a big fin in their wave boards for the European market so they get better up wind ratings (Goya One for example). It's not until you put a smaller more wave performance fin in it that you actually get the benefits of the board for its intended design in waves. This is when the upwind performance comes back to reality.
Hope this helps.

Nice report. You sail mostly cross on, you're a big guy? You like to gauge hard over the back foot or lay down for longer arcs wetting the full rail?

Hi Manuel,
I have the fanatic FreeWave STB TeXtreme 2018 105 and a few months ago a friend gave me a 2017 wave slate 95. I have only had a few session on the wave slate and have usually been underpowered. Also I am a little bit inexperienced in the waves so I might not be able to express.my feeling on it, at the moment.
Maybe in a few months I can answer your question.
At the moment though I feel that I can see the wave slate proportions of wider at the front of the board and then skinnier at the back. The STB I can't really see that. I have to be more careful on the JP with my feet. If I come into a gust then I have to have my foot behind the mast foot otherwise the whole board submerges. The wave slate feels more agile and easier over choppy water. Not sure able catching waves as I'm still very crap at getting on the waves but I'm trying my best.
Most of conditions are side shore.
This week is a very good forecast so I will try to a little bit more observant.
If there is anything you want me to keep in mind, to report back, please let me know.

Sweet, thank you! What do you think about planing, how effort it takes to take off and how far it keeps the plane?

I got my hands (feet?) on a tabou 3s 86 & 96 from 2017. Quite stubby like but definitely freewave oriented.

The Tabou 3s from that period was on the freeride end of the FSW spectrum. Very fast, very comfortable at speed over chop, but stiff on a wave.

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Manuel7 said..
Nice report. You sail mostly cross on, you're a big guy? You like to gauge hard over the back foot or lay down for longer arcs wetting the full rail?

I am 95kg. Had the 88L. Absolutely no need to go bigger.
Ride it usually in on-shore wind in quite dumpy shorebreak with a strong cross current (Scarborough Perth). Went well in the the weaker waves at Gero and the reef breaks further north. My style (although certainly no pro) is gauging bottom and tops turns using the entire rail. Often found 1/3 the nose of the board carving under the water. Strangely didn't nose dive. You need strong legs to get the most out of this style of board though. Check out Tomo riding the Vanguard surfboard on YouTube you will see he does the same. This is the board that started the fashion.
Tail turning usually resulted in the tail popping out of the water due to the extra width. You need to be careful though as you can go over the handle bars in your cutbacks as it turns so quick due to the shorter length.
Actually made some 80/20 asymmetrical toed in side fins out of some old twin fins. It increased grip, speed and flow of the board making the board go from a really good board to legendary (for fat old me anyway)
Loved the board so much I ride this style of board kiting now I have retired from windsurfing. Still love windsurfing though. If I could turn back the aging clock I would definitely get another one.

Great report thanks! So basically the stubby is a high productivity board for non idea spots and that requires strong commitment to make the most out of, correct?

Okay,
A couple of good days on the water on both boards.

The FreeWave: It punches easily through the oncoming waves. It is quick to get onto the plane and carries through when I get into a lull without too much bearing away or pumping.
The JP is a 95 so I have to work to get it planing. When I get to a lull then I'm pumping and bearing away hence I usually have a little bit of walking to get back to my original spot. Also, I find the JP to be more skittish, I find it hard to keep it going in a straight direction. When I ride it, I feel like it's a quick high-performance maneuverable machine.
Out of the two, if I was 5 to 10kg lighter I think I would prefer the JP. Even though it is a harder board to ride, I find it more fun than the FreeWave. Also, when the wind starts to nuke I don't like being out on the FreeWave. I am a little bit lazy and if I could I would prefer to just have one board in the car. I am also just getting into jumping and the FreeWave seems to be more difficult to control during the very short air time.
I made a quick video, if you want to have a look. Trying to show the boards getting onto the plane and a few gybes to see how much of the rail gets dug in.

If you like the more wavy feeling of the JP better than the FW Stb but with a little bit more volume to realize a one board quiver, maybe a Goya Nitro 98 or 106 or a Fanatic Mamba 104 could be the perfect fit for you.
I (93 kg) ride a Goya Nitro 106 and this board feels very wavy, far more than the Goya One Freewave boards i had before.
Even with a 4.5 the Nitro doesn't feel too big, but fore sure a more classic waveboard delivers more control and better turning, but if i got you right, your not after a real waveboard for powerfull waves though.

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Henners said..
Okay,
A couple of good days on the water on both boards.

The FreeWave: It punches easily through the oncoming waves. It is quick to get onto the plane and carries through when I get into a lull without too much bearing away or pumping.
The JP is a 95 so I have to work to get it planing. When I get to a lull then I'm pumping and bearing away hence I usually have a little bit of walking to get back to my original spot. Also, I find the JP to be more skittish, I find it hard to keep it going in a straight direction. When I ride it, I feel like it's a quick high-performance maneuverable machine.
Out of the two, if I was 5 to 10kg lighter I think I would prefer the JP. Even though it is a harder board to ride, I find it more fun than the FreeWave. Also, when the wind starts to nuke I don't like being out on the FreeWave. I am a little bit lazy and if I could I would prefer to just have one board in the car. I am also just getting into jumping and the FreeWave seems to be more difficult to control during the very short air time.
I made a quick video, if you want to have a look. Trying to show the boards getting onto the plane and a few gybes to see how much of the rail gets dug in.

Thanks for the nice video! It did look like you were a bit underpowered maybe, what size sail?
Your hook looks a bit loose, no?

I got to try the Tabou 3S in both 86 and 96L, was surprised by the difference between the 2, here is my full test:

windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/#2017-Tabou-3S

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Manuel7 said..

Henners said..
Okay,
A couple of good days on the water on both boards.

The FreeWave: It punches easily through the oncoming waves. It is quick to get onto the plane and carries through when I get into a lull without too much bearing away or pumping.
The JP is a 95 so I have to work to get it planing. When I get to a lull then I'm pumping and bearing away hence I usually have a little bit of walking to get back to my original spot. Also, I find the JP to be more skittish, I find it hard to keep it going in a straight direction. When I ride it, I feel like it's a quick high-performance maneuverable machine.
Out of the two, if I was 5 to 10kg lighter I think I would prefer the JP. Even though it is a harder board to ride, I find it more fun than the FreeWave. Also, when the wind starts to nuke I don't like being out on the FreeWave. I am a little bit lazy and if I could I would prefer to just have one board in the car. I am also just getting into jumping and the FreeWave seems to be more difficult to control during the very short air time.
I made a quick video, if you want to have a look. Trying to show the boards getting onto the plane and a few gybes to see how much of the rail gets dug in.

Thanks for the nice video! It did look like you were a bit underpowered maybe, what size sail?
Your hook looks a bit loose, no?

I got to try the Tabou 3S in both 86 and 96L, was surprised by the difference between the 2, here is my full test:

windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/#2017-Tabou-3S

You're welcome. I hope it was somewhat helpful. Sail size was 4.7 on both boards, very gusty days with long lulls, making it hard to get through. Might be a good point to go for a larger sail to keep the smaller board upwind. Good point about the harness, this is the third one that I have tried and they all seem to end up the same way, on the beach the bar is tight against my belly but when I am on the water it always looks and feels to be running high. It is not like a have a big belly either. The only time that I have not had the hook that high was when I used seat harnesses but then I loose some of the control.
Both the last two harnesses have been given to me Severne and Prolimit but in the past Dakine (seat harnesses) have always fitted me well and I was thinking about getting a T-9 which might give me a bit more leverage to point higher.
Interesting review of the Tabou, I always thought that cut-outs were only on slalom boards. Did you manage to get any video footage of your test?
Also, regarding your camera mount setup on the boom, I tried it with a carbon pole (from a paddle) which broke in the sand, I switched to a thick pvc pipe, used cable ties to grip it to the boom, and then taped it up. The last two sessions have been very good.

you might need to try a bigger harness - that wraps further around yr waist - so the hook is not hanging onto excessive webbing length - looks like your harness ends stops on yr sides too much (like yr using an L when you need a n XL) - too much webbing doing too much work maybe ? ,.... ALso , try a wider hook size spread .... that harness looks like it could be smashing your outer ribs ?

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seabreezer said..
you might need to try a bigger harness - that wraps further around yr waist - so the hook is not hanging onto excessive webbing length - looks like your harness ends stops on yr sides too much (like yr using an L when you need a n XL) - too much webbing doing too much work maybe ? ,.... ALso , try a wider hook size spread .... that harness looks like it could be smashing your outer ribs ?

I think you might be onto something. Both harnesses that I was given where L's. I have just asked my local dealer for an XL. That might be the answer to the problem. Not my odd shaped stomach.

Hey Henner's, Have you tried the Severne CMR harness. Its a race seat harness but has a higher hook.
I had a chest injury and can't use a waist harness because as soon as they ride up I lose my breath but used this harness recently and love it.
It has a higher hook, distributes the load very well, has extra elastic bands that tension over the power belt and the power belt itself has velcro all the way across. Other brands only seem to have a bit of velcro at one end.

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Henners said..

seabreezer said..
you might need to try a bigger harness - that wraps further around yr waist - so the hook is not hanging onto excessive webbing length - looks like your harness ends stops on yr sides too much (like yr using an L when you need a n XL) - too much webbing doing too much work maybe ? ,.... ALso , try a wider hook size spread .... that harness looks like it could be smashing your outer ribs ?

I think you might be onto something. Both harnesses that I was given where L's. I have just asked my local dealer for an XL. That might be the answer to the problem. Not my odd shaped stomach.

you'll know this already , but a harness fits differently over a tshirt in the shop , vs summer wetsuit , and alot tighter winter wetsuit ... your back will appreciate the XL .... the webbing should be no more than an inch (or 2) in length b4 threading through the hook ....

Now you change to an XL , and yr harness hook behaves better - it will efffectively 'shorten' yr lines ... so you may need to change them as well ...!

Ok 4.7 is quite small for 105 especially for an experienced sailor. Now the 95 is still a wave board so it's normal that it'd feel not as directional.

What are you looking for in terms of footage?

I tighten my bar quite strongly regardless of harness design. My harness itself isn't tightened at all which lets me slide it sideways.

A tight bar gives a more direct feel with the sail, faster response to gusts and light winds.

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Wind Smurf said..
Hey Henner's, Have you tried the Severne CMR harness. Its a race seat harness but has a higher hook.
I had a chest injury and can't use a waist harness because as soon as they ride up I lose my breath but used this harness recently and love it.
It has a higher hook, distributes the load very well, has extra elastic bands that tension over the power belt and the power belt itself has velcro all the way across. Other brands only seem to have a bit of velcro at one end.

It looks like a very interesting design. I think there is a Japanese company called Liberty that makes a similar concept, It was also a very good recommendation.
One thing I noticed switching over from a seat harness to a waist, was that I had a lot more control. I could hit chop at high speed and the board would continue on its path.
I owned a crossover (not sure who was the manufacturer) about 10 years ago and it would ride up into a bra position, it was an absolute pain. I am banking on the new harness not doing that, the current L-size harness sits where it should without problems so it could have been just a bad match.

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seabreezer said..

Henners said..

seabreezer said..
you might need to try a bigger harness - that wraps further around yr waist - so the hook is not hanging onto excessive webbing length - looks like your harness ends stops on yr sides too much (like yr using an L when you need a n XL) - too much webbing doing too much work maybe ? ,.... ALso , try a wider hook size spread .... that harness looks like it could be smashing your outer ribs ?

I think you might be onto something. Both harnesses that I was given where L's. I have just asked my local dealer for an XL. That might be the answer to the problem. Not my odd shaped stomach.

you'll know this already , but a harness fits differently over a tshirt in the shop , vs summer wetsuit , and alot tighter winter wetsuit ... your back will appreciate the XL .... the webbing should be no more than an inch (or 2) in length b4 threading through the hook ....

Now you change to an XL , and yr harness hook behaves better - it will efffectively 'shorten' yr lines ... so you may need to change them as well ...!

the webbing should be no more than an inch (or 2) in length b4 threading through the hook ....

The part in bold. I did not know. Thank you very much for the insight.
Last night I tried the harness on with a shirt on. Yeah, even if I was sailing the tropics, it would still not be a good fit.
No problems with the lines I got a pair of adjustable on another boom, so I can dial it in until I am comfortable.

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Manuel7 said..
Ok 4.7 is quite small for 105 especially for an experienced sailor. Now the 95 is still a wave board so it's normal that it'd feel not as directional.

What are you looking for in terms of footage?

I tighten my bar quite strongly regardless of harness design. My harness itself isn't tightened at all which lets me slide it sideways.

A tight bar gives a more direct feel with the sail, faster response to gusts and light winds.

Hey Manu I think the alternative to the 4.7 105 would have been 5.3 on a 95. Just at the moment, I prefer a larger board. My gybes are just coming good and my quick tacks just suck. So I am looking for a little bit more volume to help me through when I stuff up.
I find every time I go out there is something that I am learning so maybe in the future I will/ and most probably should go out a little bit more powered up.
Footage wise your rig setup is the best. I started by attaching everything at the beach which just gave me the **s. I like to get into the water as fast as possible. But once I changed over to taping it to the boom and leaving it there, now it takes me no time at all to get the camera on the mount. Previously I tried mast mount and direct to-boom mount. But none of them really suited what I am after. What I want is to get the most out of my windsurfing. I can review my footage and try to see what I am doing wrong. Eg. I would always be on a too-small harness.
Today I tightened my harness down to the point that it was uncomfortable. Looking at the footage from today I can see that after the first tack, the hook is already riding up, back to where it usually is.

Thanks for clarifying! How much do you weigh?
Volume helps with extra buoyancy and the end the jibe for sure. Speed is very important too because the slight momentum left after flipping will increase the changes of making it. You need to be comfortable going in fast and choose a nice friendly bowl to jibe over.

The hook may relax a little but it shouldn't be by much at all. There might be a problem with the buckle setup.

That clew view setup is awesome. Just need to be careful on shallow shorebreak.

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Manuel7 said..
Thanks for clarifying! How much do you weigh?
Volume helps with extra buoyancy and the end the jibe for sure. Speed is very important too because the slight momentum left after flipping will increase the changes of making it. You need to be comfortable going in fast and choose a nice friendly bowl to jibe over.

The hook may relax a little but it shouldn't be by much at all. There might be a problem with the buckle setup.

That clew view setup is awesome. Just need to be careful on shallow shorebreak.

192cm and I'm just under 90kg now (89.9kg).
With the gybe I think I know what the problem is. The rig transition is too slow because the sail in coming from a too backwards position. I think I almost have it now, I just have to concentrate to get the sail back to the neutral position before rig flip.
Was working in my gybed but now working on my quick tack but my gybes seem to be having more success after I stopped concentrating on them.

Ah ok 95 can feel a little small in puffy winds then.

For the jibe, try and flip early (full downwind) and maintain the carve (right around broad reach).

Practice duck jibes, it'll outline different aspects of the jibe :)