Sitting here cringing as I hate asking these types of questions but may as well.
New to wave sailing -->> totally green
Got some sails 4.2 and 4.7 (2017) Severne gator
Got a crap old big board 2004 115L RRD twintip which is surprisingly a sinker (I'm 88kg, maybe with wetsuit and rig 95kg)
The windy season is coming today's forecast was in the high 20's (knots) really gusty though. It was also 2m waves so I went to the Lake instead.
When I do slalom, on the windy days I can get down to an 80L board. So I'm comfortable on a sinker.
I would like to get a high wind board and I have found an almost perfect 2014 wave Kode 77L. I am sure that when the wind is up I could ride it, tacks and jibes might be a bloody big problem as I am not delicate on my feet, a little bit more like Herman Munster.
I have also been offered a very old 85L goya, I tried to see if I could find a matching picture of it to find out what year but could not so it might be very very old. The picture is below. I am not even sure that 85L might be correct and it might be just as buoyant as the Kode. The upside of the board is cheap and in a few months when I am more sure of what board I want, I could purchase a much newer 2019+ RRD waveboard,maybe.
Does a 2014 wave board still stack up to more modern wave boards? What have the newer boards got over this one?
For my weight is a 77L board just going to be a major hassle?
The spot is side shore if that helps.
Once again thank you for reading and entertaining my complete lack of this area of the sport.
mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=7fa54565ad&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-f:1715927104590255854&th=17d0329c399116ee&view=fimg&fur=ip&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_HB3AdC9wW0ejKfkUrjcaLxE6Tx1bj2MSL1wdpESqkwVYx8mh9tI1K3LiHbMq-kzrKwxchFYWRzvuEiZX1aiCjvZalSLnkYc04OPOvP5jzml7hWTbdbqe8MRk&disp=emb&realattid=17d0327f72bd9be0cfd1

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Have you browsed through my tests? windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/

77L you'll sink and drag a lot, only for nuclear conditions and still...

85L is possible, it'll be more difficult to crush lulls, get on a plane and catch waves. But you'll be able to turn :) !

Newer boards may ride different depending on models which are all well... different!
Volume wise I'd suggest 90-95 if you want a small board and have good slogging skills. For lighter winds 105.

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Manuel7 said..

Have you browsed through my tests? windsurfing.lepicture.com/board-tests/

77L you'll sink and drag a lot, only for nuclear conditions and still...

85L is possible, it'll be more difficult to crush lulls, get on a plane and catch waves. But you'll be able to turn :) !

Newer boards may ride different depending on models which are all well... different!
Volume wise I'd suggest 90-95 if you want a small board and have good slogging skills. For lighter winds 105.

Hi Manuel,
No, I had not seen your reviews, but I will have a look.
I had seen one of your videos on inner tubes, in the past, and thought it was very interesting.
I really just want to have a good time out there. I don't want to slog away trying to get on a plane but I don't want to be on the other side of things and have a board that I can't control. Rereading the last comment I think that is the goal of every windsurfer.

I'm 90 kg, for gusty 20 knots I ride a 103 litre board. What a lot of people don't realise is that if there is any rips or currents that are the same direction as the wind then you need a few extra litres. Also wave boards don't plane as early or go up wind as well as a slalom board due to the smaller fins and increased rocker. They usually say go at least 10 litres more than your weight as a minimum amount of bouyancy.
Try someone else's board if you can to at least get an idea of what a wave board feels like.

I have this board but weight 10 kg less than you. The kode 77 is fast and is the earliest planing waveboard I have ever owned and probably the most fun. For me once the wind starts hitting 30 knots plus it's a handful on the wave all that speed makes wave riding difficult and I switch to a slower board. Set up as a twin it's loose and easy to slide which is great in smaller less powerful waves. Set up as a single fin it feels a bit like a free wave, easy to push upwind and very grippy. Because of its speed it rides like a bigger board and I don't think it's outdated but a small boards is always going to be more challenging to ride than a bigger one.

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Madge said..
I'm 90 kg, for gusty 20 knots I ride a 103 litre board. What a lot of people don't realise is that if there is any rips or currents that are the same direction as the wind then you need a few extra litres. Also wave boards don't plane as early or go up wind as well as a slalom board due to the smaller fins and increased rocker. They usually say go at least 10 litres more than your weight as a minimum amount of bouyancy.
Try someone else's board if you can to at least get an idea of what a wave board feels like.

Thanks for the input. I think it might be best to use my current freeride board, see what the conditions are like and then go down in volume from there. The beach stretches over 50km's long and I normally take the kids to another spot about 10km to the west. On a few occasions, out of interest, I got my vest on and floated around in the rips. They never seem to go back out through a channel but rather go parallel to the beach. So might be a strong rip running with the wind but that was another spot along the coast.

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Al Planet said..
I have this board but weight 10 kg less than you. The kode 77 is fast and is the earliest planing waveboard I have ever owned and probably the most fun. For me once the wind starts hitting 30 knots plus it's a handful on the wave all that speed makes wave riding difficult and I switch to a slower board. Set up as a twin it's loose and easy to slide which is great in smaller less powerful waves. Set up as a single fin it feels a bit like a free wave, easy to push upwind and very grippy. Because of its speed it rides like a bigger board and I don't think it's outdated but a small boards is always going to be more challenging to ride than a bigger one.

And that be the nail in the coffin. Thanks for your honesty, I think what I am after is a board that can keep me on the waves and not outrun them. I can't see myself doing high speed jumps either. In a previous life, before the wee kiddies, I would go out on a 94L kode and a 5.0 in 30knts of wind. I'm a bit better at windsurfing and lighter now and thought the 77 would be good graduation but most probably not yet/ever.

90 kg., 77 wave.....great for selected days at Kanaha or Spreks.
Not great for 70% of days at Hookipa.
Talking expert level wave sailor.
Mostly, 75 kg experts ride 67-75 liter wave boards in sideshore waves...

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LeeD said..
90 kg., 77 wave.....great for selected days at Kanaha or Spreks.
Not great for 70% of days at Hookipa.
Talking expert level wave sailor.
Mostly, 75 kg experts ride 67-75 liter wave boards in sideshore waves...

Thanks, Lee. Sunday looks like a good day for wind and waves. I'm just going to front up with the rrd 115 board, see what I can do on the water, check out all the other gear being used, and see if I can ask questions. Ow yeah and try not to break any of my kit.

I'm 90kg plus wearing wetsuit. 104 for 90% of days, 85 for nuking.
85 needs very steady conditions to ride with a 4.7 or bigger.

If that Goya is a '04 or newer with squared nose, it rides bigger and very smooth.
But overall, stay 85+ for great days, use what you got for the other 85% days.

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LeeD said..
If that Goya is a '04 or newer with squared nose, it rides bigger and very smooth.
But overall, stay 85+ for great days, use what you got for the other 85% days.

Finally found an obscure website in Japanese that had the model. Yes it's a 2004 model. Sunday this week look good so might be able to give it a try.

I'm a bit surprised by some of the answers here.

In the old days, a sinker was a normal choice for windy weather - because that was seemingly the only way to get control with boards that were long and with the mast track in the wrong place. Using a single fin also meant a board would get excessive lift at the tail and so we would often 'tail walk' if overpowered.
The change to shorter designs and to multi fin set-ups has changed all this.

So we now recommend a bit of excess buoyancy for windy weather, and normally it's +10. That means for an 80kgs sailor the board float should be about 80+10=90 litres. That board size then works for the wave sailing rigs from 5.6m down to 4.2m, and it's only when needing a 4m rig or smaller that you might find the board too big - and reducing fin area might solve that.
At 75kgs, I'm currently using an 83 litre board, and a very floaty 93litre wave board for the marginal wind days. I'm lucky enough to also have a narrower 82 litre wave board for the windy/choppy water days. But note these boards all offer positive buoyancy for my weight.

For sure, if you have constant wind, and little white water or currents, then you can go on a smaller board without stalling it, but I find on smaller boards you then have to be at the point of being overpowered to keep going.
The modern thinking is that giving yourself 'positive float' means you can sail without the 'go big or go home' attitude of old.


So, on topic, how can you be thinking of a 77 litre board when you weigh 88kgs + wetsuit? Doesn't add up to me.

Still buzzin from a stong wind wave session... If you are lets say 70 kg go for a 80 l wave board ( modern board ). Imho harsh truth in wave sailing is that you should not be above 85 max 90 kg unless you are very talented and live next to Pozo..So if you love so much wave sailing get on diet....Big wave boards are not an option, no matter how modern and refined- a big board is a big board. There is nothing like the slick silky feeling of a fast, agile small wave board. Solving that contradiction is hard but it is what it is. Look now at the pros- Thomas Traversa (winner of the Red Bull storm chase and PWA world champ)-the guy is 65 kg. Keeping this weight for years and years is a very very tough job. Assume he gets 75,even 70kg- he is finished as a pro wave sailor, he wont be able to be on 65-70 l boards and use 4.2 as his light wind sail. Waves and Weight both start with "W".

I agree that there is no need for the low volume boards that we used to use in the past, multiple fins has certainly changed the game. :)

Traversa is not sailing the standard Tabou boards though, he is too lightweight and need custom boards with a lower volume than what they offer to the public.

Another good sailor is Philip K?ster, he is around 90kg I believe, and he seems manage quite alright in the waves... ;)

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sprayblaze said..
Still buzzin from a stong wind wave session... If you are lets say 70 kg go for a 80 l wave board ( modern board ). Imho harsh truth in wave sailing is that you should not be above 85 max 90 kg unless you are very talented and live next to Pozo..So if you love so much wave sailing get on diet....Big wave boards are not an option, no matter how modern and refined- a big board is a big board. There is nothing like the slick silky feeling of a fast, agile small wave board. Solving that contradiction is hard but it is what it is. Look now at the pros- Thomas Traversa (winner of the Red Bull storm chase and PWA world champ)-the guy is 65 kg. Keeping this weight for years and years is a very very tough job. Assume he gets 75,even 70kg- he is finished as a pro wave sailor, he wont be able to be on 65-70 l boards and use 4.2 as his light wind sail. Waves and Weight both start with "W".

What a load of nonsense.

Dunkerbeck was 95kg when he was a good wave sailor, Naish is 85kg.

Most guys out there in the real world don't get to sail when ever they want as they have real jobs and family's so most of us are unfortunately weekend warriors and most off us drink beer, and can't train for 7 days a week.

Bigger boards do work if you are bigger. Skinny people cannot make them work as they can't bury the rail like us fatty's.

I use a Lorch Quad 103, turns brilliantly, is very good on a wave too. I've got friends that are 75kg that have used it and thought it was great. Its around 14 litre above my weight which is perfect as a slightly good float and ride board and a one wave board solution.

Theres a few other words too that start with "W" that may have described your statement.

While I don't disagree with most of your post, I do fully disagree on Robbie's size.
Having known him since 1986, I'd say a true 5'8.5" and mostly 70 kg, or mid 150's wing weight.
Even the Gorge years, early '90's, maybe 170 max
Which make his slalom and course exploits even more amazing.

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LeeD said..
While I don't disagree with most of your post, I do fully disagree on Robbie's size.
Having known him since 1986, I'd say a true 5'8.5" and mostly 70 kg, or mid 150's wing weight.
Even the Gorge years, early '90's, maybe 170 max
Which make his slalom and course exploits even more amazing.

You maybe right there.

Saw an interview and though he said he was nearer to 80kg and that was years ago.

Bjorn is a big fella though and he uses a 95 litre wave board for medium winds.

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Basher said..
I'm a bit surprised by some of the answers here.

In the old days, a sinker was a normal choice for windy weather - because that was seemingly the only way to get control with boards that were long and with the mast track in the wrong place. Using a single fin also meant a board would get excessive lift at the tail and so we would often 'tail walk' if overpowered.
The change to shorter designs and to multi fin set-ups has changed all this.

So we now recommend a bit of excess buoyancy for windy weather, and normally it's +10. That means for an 80kgs sailor the board float should be about 80+10=90 litres. That board size then works for the wave sailing rigs from 5.6m down to 4.2m, and it's only when needing a 4m rig or smaller that you might find the board too big - and reducing fin area might solve that.
At 75kgs, I'm currently using an 83 litre board, and a very floaty 93litre wave board for the marginal wind days. I'm lucky enough to also have a narrower 82 litre wave board for the windy/choppy water days. But note these boards all offer positive buoyancy for my weight.

For sure, if you have constant wind, and little white water or currents, then you can go on a smaller board without stalling it, but I find on smaller boards you then have to be at the point of being overpowered to keep going.
The modern thinking is that giving yourself 'positive float' means you can sail without the 'go big or go home' attitude of old.


So, on topic, how can you be thinking of a 77 litre board when you weigh 88kgs + wetsuit? Doesn't add up to me.

Thanks, Basher, I am getting a little closer to understanding the modern gear setup.
I've had two shop owners telling me that sinkers are the way to go and really I just do not know.
At the start, I would like to make it as easy as possible so I would prefer to concentrate on getting over the waves and coming back in than fighting to get/keep myself on the plane.
The place does get high wind and big waves but being a newbie I think I will just cherry-pick the easy days to start off with and build up from there.

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sprayblaze said..
Still buzzin from a stong wind wave session... If you are lets say 70 kg go for a 80 l wave board ( modern board ). Imho harsh truth in wave sailing is that you should not be above 85 max 90 kg unless you are very talented and live next to Pozo..So if you love so much wave sailing get on diet....Big wave boards are not an option, no matter how modern and refined- a big board is a big board. There is nothing like the slick silky feeling of a fast, agile small wave board. Solving that contradiction is hard but it is what it is. Look now at the pros- Thomas Traversa (winner of the Red Bull storm chase and PWA world champ)-the guy is 65 kg. Keeping this weight for years and years is a very very tough job. Assume he gets 75,even 70kg- he is finished as a pro wave sailor, he wont be able to be on 65-70 l boards and use 4.2 as his light wind sail. Waves and Weight both start with "W".

Interesting. I'm not a fatie 192cm but the plan is to lose a few more kg's and get down to 85kg. I've taken 10kg off in the year so far so another few can be done. I suppose this guy is an exception but looking at Koster's profile he is 190cm and 90kg. So I think I can still play in the waves.

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Madge said..

sprayblaze said..
Still buzzin from a stong wind wave session... If you are lets say 70 kg go for a 80 l wave board ( modern board ). Imho harsh truth in wave sailing is that you should not be above 85 max 90 kg unless you are very talented and live next to Pozo..So if you love so much wave sailing get on diet....Big wave boards are not an option, no matter how modern and refined- a big board is a big board. There is nothing like the slick silky feeling of a fast, agile small wave board. Solving that contradiction is hard but it is what it is. Look now at the pros- Thomas Traversa (winner of the Red Bull storm chase and PWA world champ)-the guy is 65 kg. Keeping this weight for years and years is a very very tough job. Assume he gets 75,even 70kg- he is finished as a pro wave sailor, he wont be able to be on 65-70 l boards and use 4.2 as his light wind sail. Waves and Weight both start with "W".

What a load of nonsense.

Dunkerbeck was 95kg when he was a good wave sailor, Naish is 85kg.

Most guys out there in the real world don't get to sail when ever they want as they have real jobs and family's so most of us are unfortunately weekend warriors and most off us drink beer, and can't train for 7 days a week.

Bigger boards do work if you are bigger. Skinny people cannot make them work as they can't bury the rail like us fatty's.

I use a Lorch Quad 103, turns brilliantly, is very good on a wave too. I've got friends that are 75kg that have used it and thought it was great. Its around 14 litre above my weight which is perfect as a slightly good float and ride board and a one wave board solution.

Theres a few other words too that start with "W" that may have described your statement.

A little bit of extra weight is not going to stop me from trying. Thank you for your insight Madge.
You guys are great. I am fine on chop, can surf okay but it is just a big unknown on what gear to have and use and just how to tie it all together to wave sail.
All of the guys who windsurf in the is spot are slight and smaller builds so I can't really hit them up for the good info. I think the best thing to do is just hold out, use what I got and when I absolutely need it and it's stopping me from going out then buy the extra gear. Anyway, I was at the spot last week, it was nuking and there was no way I was going out. So the small boards might be out for now.

Big guys can rip too. We just need bigger boards.
Koster was on a Pyro 93 when he did the shooting on Sylt a few weeks ago.
I have 92 kg naked and i use a Goya Thruster 98 for everything from 5.3 to 4.0. In 4.0 weather the board doesn't feel too big.
The same was the case with all the boards i used since the multfins came along, all Goya boards, 2014 Quad 94, 2016 Quad 96, 2018 Thruster 99 to my current 2020 C3 98.
Sinkers are old school imo. E. g. Brawzinho, having 84 kg, uses an 84 Goya Quad for Pozo highwind conditions, his standard board being a 89 Quad. Even the Pros don't seem to use boards below bodyweight anymore.

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LeeD said..
90 kg., 77 wave.....great for selected days at Kanaha or Spreks.
Not great for 70% of days at Hookipa.
Talking expert level wave sailor.
Mostly, 75 kg experts ride 67-75 liter wave boards in sideshore waves...

Second that. Don't get 77. Will be a pain. Get 90-95L thruster or quad and when nuking use very small fins.
I'm 85-86kg. Not sure how 115 Twintip is a sinker. I know that I can uphaul down to 95L/98L board without problems. Wonder if that Twintip is full of water.. lol
My smallest is Dyno 85 which is super efficient board especially with a single fin. I would never go to 77L.

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AlexF said..
Big guys can rip too. We just need bigger boards.
Koster was on a Pyro 93 when he did the shooting on Sylt a few weeks ago.
I have 92 kg naked and i use a Goya Thruster 98 for everything from 5.3 to 4.0. In 4.0 weather the board doesn't feel too big.
The same was the case with all the boards i used since the multfins came along, all Goya boards, 2014 Quad 94, 2016 Quad 96, 2018 Thruster 99 to my current 2020 C3 98.
Sinkers are old school imo. E. g. Brawzinho, having 84 kg, uses an 84 Goya Quad for Pozo highwind conditions, his standard board being a 89 Quad. Even the Pros don't seem to use boards below bodyweight anymore.

Have been sailing on the twin tip for 5 or 6 sessions. The wind has not been nuking and I have been move than satisfied with a larger volume board.
The importing company for RRD, gyoya ect.. was at the spot a few weeks ago and I got to try out a 88L (largest they had on hand) board. It was a slog to get it going and hard to keep going.
Glad I did not purchase a smaller board.

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leto said..

LeeD said..
90 kg., 77 wave.....great for selected days at Kanaha or Spreks.
Not great for 70% of days at Hookipa.
Talking expert level wave sailor.
Mostly, 75 kg experts ride 67-75 liter wave boards in sideshore waves...

Second that. Don't get 77. Will be a pain. Get 90-95L thruster or quad and when nuking use very small fins.
I'm 85-86kg. Not sure how 115 Twintip is a sinker. I know that I can uphaul down to 95L/98L board without problems. Wonder if that Twintip is full of water.. lol
My smallest is Dyno 85 which is super efficient board especially with a single fin. I would never go to 77L.

All in the past now.
I noticed that most of the fellas out of Diato (wave spot) are on quads. It seems to me to be the new norm. I tried a starboard quad about 10 years ago and I found it very hard to keep the board gripped to the water (lots of slide-out).
Two days ago one other sailor and I went out. No waves and maybe 25 knots, would have been better with slalom gear. Biggest I had was 4.7 sail and twin tip 115. He was using a 91l quad and the same size sail. He was maybe 65kg and looked like it was easy to get on the plane. I had to pump a little harder and even when I was going I still had to pump through the lull. So end result, happy with the current board setup it is a little bit long at 264cm and I did a little hop and almost drove the nose into the water.
The season is really just starting, as of today, temp has dropped and the wind is cranking. So I'm going to keep pushing the board until I absolutely need something smaller.
Very low humidity, at the moment, so I put the board in a room without the vent screw weighed it for a week it and it did not lose any weight. But I was using bathroom scales and it might not have been long enough. But if the board is a 115 and me and the rig are 95kg then that is 20l of water so it should have lost something.
Also, I can find a few pictures of the board on the net but they all seem to have different volumes and lengths. I went back to the original ad and even the info the bloke had put up was different.
The board is a twintip L -- red colors but it has been repainted.
It is 264cm long and 64 wide (measured it)
Maybe a 2003 and it looks like maybe 115l but I have seen other sites on the web that say it is a 105L or 110L.
Don't know where this ramble is going so I will just sign off here.

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leto said..

LeeD said..
90 kg., 77 wave.....great for selected days at Kanaha or Spreks.
Not great for 70% of days at Hookipa.
Talking expert level wave sailor.
Mostly, 75 kg experts ride 67-75 liter wave boards in sideshore waves...

Second that. Don't get 77. Will be a pain. Get 90-95L thruster or quad and when nuking use very small fins.
I'm 85-86kg. Not sure how 115 Twintip is a sinker. I know that I can uphaul down to 95L/98L board without problems. Wonder if that Twintip is full of water.. lol
My smallest is Dyno 85 which is super efficient board especially with a single fin. I would never go to 77L.

All in the past now.
I noticed that most of the fellas out of Diato (wave spot) are on quads. It seems to me to be the new norm. I tried a starboard quad about 10 years ago and I found it very hard to keep the board gripped to the water (lots of slide-out).
Two days ago one other sailor and I went out. No waves and maybe 25 knots, would have been better with slalom gear. Biggest I had was 4.7 sail and twin tip 115. He was using a 91l quad and the same size sail. He was maybe 65kg and looked like it was easy to get on the plane. I had to pump a little harder and even when I was going I still had to pump through the lull. So end result, happy with the current board setup it is a little bit long at 264cm and I did a little hop and almost drove the nose into the water.
The season is really just starting, as of today, temp has dropped and the wind is cranking. So I'm going to keep pushing the board until I absolutely need something smaller.
Very low humidity, at the moment, so I put the board in a room without the vent screw weighed it for a week it and it did not lose any weight. But I was using bathroom scales and it might not have been long enough. But if the board is a 115 and me and the rig are 95kg then that is 20l of water so it should have lost something.
Also, I can find a few pictures of the board on the net but they all seem to have different volumes and lengths. I went back to the original ad and even the info the bloke had put up was different.
The board is a twintip L -- red colors but it has been repainted.
It is 264cm long and 64 wide (measured it)
Maybe a 2003 and it looks like maybe 115l but I have seen other sites on the web that say it is a 105L or 110L.
Don't know where this ramble is going so I will just sign off here.

Just a quick update. The board, that I was using, now got a soft deck and it was not worth repairing. I was looking for a 90+ liter board and managed to get a Fanatic freewave 105 2018. Yesterday I was out in 35knts+ of wind with a 3.7 on the board without any big issues. It would have been nice to go down a board size but for now, I will take what I can get. Still an endless amount of things to learn with this wave sailing show, I still find myself outrunning the wave. I am able to slow down and catch the wave but once I'm on I end up taking all that energy and racing out in front. I guess it is the turning part I have to figure out and the angle at which to catch the wave. The old board has become a simulator so I can do some land practise and I've been watching lots of wave sailing videos. Thanks, everyone for your input.

When you're on a wave try to surf the wave with your board to stay planing and reduce the use of sailpower.
The use of sailpower leads to outrunning the wave.
Try to be a surfer not a sailor on the wave.
Only use the sail if the wave doesn't give you the power to keep planing.

Practise surfing or supsurfing to read a wave and just use 100% waveenergy for planing.

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AlexF said..
When you're on a wave try to surf the wave with your board to stay planing and reduce the use of sailpower.
The use of sailpower leads to outrunning the wave.
Try to be a surfer not a sailor on the wave.
Only use the sail if the wave doesn't give you the power to keep planing.

Practise surfing or supsurfing to read a wave and just use 100% waveenergy for planing.

Excellent advice thank you very much AlexF I will keep that in mind.

So I'm getting better and the season is rolling on. I have a few windsurfing friends now and one of them, who is 86kg, bought himself a 78l RRD wave board. He was ripping around on it with a 4.2 sail. I was also on the water with a 3.7 and the 105 fanatic. A few days ago I saw a 86 l da curve for sale on an auction site and placed a bid not really expecting to win and well I won.
Got a chance to try it out yesterday in 35something knot wind and 2m waves. AMAZING!!!! Okay it is a sinker but it felt great, could attack the shore break, navigate the swell on the way out and in. My wave skills are not the best so I took the smaller waves and was very happy.
Yes you need plenty of wind to get it going but the winter season here brings that.

Dacurve a reference! The 86 prob feels a bit smaller too but in 35kts it's at your advantage! Now you have no excuse to shred and loop!