88kg (maybe 92kg with 5mm wetsuit) 192cm
Moved from the lake to the ocean a few years ago, I
can gybe, working on quick tack, can't catch waves that well, can ride the swell in but am just missing the timing for when it starts to break, also when I turn onto the wave I think I am not dumping the sail pressure and as a result I am leaning back putting too much pressure on the back foot and taking the board off the plane. Some advice on this would be great.
A shop is selling a pair of 2022 Pyro 105 and 93. I think they would be perfect for me. My usual place is a river mouth, a sand bar that runs out 20 odd metres, plenty of rips, lots of white water. Wave breaking is a little hard to predict, cross-onshore to cross. The other place I go is cross-off to cross and usually requires a bit more float.
I have seen the reviews of the Pyro here on Seabreeze, and it looks like everyone loved it. I am a little bit worried about upwind capabilities, though. Getting upwind is becoming less of a problem for me, and I did not do "the walk" last year. Currently, I am on a 2017 UltraKode 99L, which is great, but last week I had it out with a 6.3, and it was just a little bit too small. Any advice would be great. I don't want to blow a wad of cash and be unsatisfied.

If you still intend using the 6.3m sail then go for the 105. Wave boards are a lot slower at planing than the Kode and don't go upwind nearly as good either so the extra float will help.

If you are having trouble with the sail loading up its probably as the apparent wind increases as you get on the wave and as you have come from a lake its highly likely that you are using the sail overpowered, a lot of people I know use just the right size sails so they are just planing going out and then when they come in on a wave they are no over powered.

Good luck with it.

I have the first generation Pyro 105 L (black, white and red). Great board as a quad or as a twin. Goes upwind really well as a quad. If you're still used to the single fin feel from the lake, you will like it as a thruster, but I found the wave riding much improved as a quad for big waves and a twin for small waves and cross onshore waves.

Thanks everyone, much much appreciated.

I'm about 93 kg and I now only use the 105 L with a 5.5 or smaller. If I need to use a 6.2 I'd rather be on a 115 L. This is mostly due to laziness, I just can't be bothered to struggle with too small of a board anymore. So I personally would only ride a 93 L if I am planing on a 4.7.

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philn said..
I'm about 93 kg and I now only use the 105 L with a 5.5 or smaller. If I need to use a 6.2 I'd rather be on a 115 L. This is mostly due to laziness, I just can't be bothered to struggle with too small of a board anymore. So I personally would only ride a 93 L if I am planing on a 4.7.

If only I had asked earlier there was a 2021 Magic wave pro 115L for sale and for that size it's an absolute unicorn but it sold. I was thinking about it but I really thought the volume was just a little bit much and the range of use would of only been a few days out of the year. Alas I weighed myself last night after an all you can eat dinner 91.5 kg big mistake to go near the scales. I can fluctuate by 5kg in a week though.

The 6.2 is really used at the start and end of the season when the air temp is a warmer (maybe 20 sessions), at the same time the waves are usually a little bit smaller as well, I think on the last session waves would of been about hip to chest height.

I really want the extra volume for a few reasons;
* less struggle
* start nailing my quick tacks on smaller boards windSUP is no problem, so progressing down board sizes
* be able to do more tricks/moves more easily like upwind 360 and different forms of gybes
* Be able to glide more on a wave, currently I feel like I am stalling and falling off the back of the waves (need to record from the beach and see what I am actually doing wrong)
* get upwind, giving me more time to play in the waves
* be able to go out in lighter wind conditions to keep working on wave riding, slogging


There was one other board that I have seen for sale for a while now mainly because the owner is similar to a "cash converters" and wants some horrendous price but it's a 2015 Starboard Nuevo 110 twin fin.
I'm very tempted as I have been told that it is incredibly strong, It has 5L more float than the Pyro. It is by the same designer as the Pyro but my worry which I think is holding me back is upwind capability.
Any thoughts on Pyro vs Nuevo upwind capability ect...?

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philn said..
I have the first generation Pyro 105 L (black, white and red). Great board as a quad or as a twin. Goes upwind really well as a quad. If you're still used to the single fin feel from the lake, you will like it as a thruster, but I found the wave riding much improved as a quad for big waves and a twin for small waves and cross onshore waves.

what he said ^^^^

I had a 100 litre new Evo board, was a lot slashyer than the pyro when on a wave but didn't\t go upwind any where near as well.

I know you don't have a glut of gear there Henners, but I will say that board is worth no more than $200USD so show the ripoff store this post.

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Mark _australia said..
I know you don't have a glut of gear there Henners, but I will say that board is worth no more than $200USD so show the ripoff store this post.

Finally got in contact with the NuEvo store, who want about $300 USD if I buy direct. No discount available, and they won't ship it.
The pyro store is after about $1000USD which is just a little bit too expensive. I'm just going to wait a month and then get back to them both and see if they want to make a deal. You never know, something good might come up on the auction sites.

Any opinions on the 2021 JP Magic Wave 115L
229 by 64cm 7.1kg?

Antoine Albeau does use it as his big wave board. I saw him ripping on his 105 Magic Wave. I guess the 115 isn't too bad either.

I've ridden the 2021 Magic Wave 105 L. I highly rate it.

Antoine Albeau does use it as his big wave board. I saw him ripping on his 105 Magic Wave. I guess the 115 isn't too bad either.

Sounds like the Magic wave is a great board. Still wondering about that 10L of extra volume though.

I was lucky enough to go SUPing yesterday, waist level and breaking real nice. Last year, I changed from a Starboard converse 142L to a Quatro Glide 145L. Glide is a little bit of extra volume and a shorter and fatter board.
It went from slightly struggling and falling off (usually trying to get out the back) to now having the time of my life.
Currently on a 105 fanatic freewave STB can gybe but still can't get the tack. If I go up in volume, I think it will greatly help me to learn faster. But what happens in the waves? Does an extra 10L make the board harder to turn? Jumping, does that extra volume hinder? The overall shape of the Magice wave is very similar to the Fanatic freewave. When I jump "bunny hop" the freewave, it is manageable, and I don't normally feel out of control. I presume that the out-of-control feeling is due to do with the surface area of the nose of the board being lifted, and the wind gets under the board.

10l on a 105 or 115l is not much. Not even 10%. For sure outline (max width, tail width, nose width and overall length) have more influence at this point than 10l extra volume.

The magicwave 105 can actually feel smaller than your freewave, if the tail is narrower and shorter.

If you can try, that's the best. Otherwise, I would say, think about the conditions you will mostly use it.

I guess the biggest drawback of a too big board are the bounce on the chop and the surfing, especially the end of the bottom turn...

If you feel the 10 litres more strongly depends on the shape. If you want more volume in your waveboard for floating but don't want to feel it when riding choose a more radical shape.
I (94kg) switched from a Goya Thruster 98 to a 2025 Quad 104 and on a wave it feels even more agile than the Thruster. The same in chop and strong winds. Maybe not as fast but that doesn't matter to me.
German Surf magazine took the same conclusion in their waveboard test last year. They did compare by brand the smaller allround shapes to the bigger radical model.
You don't feel the volume the more radical a shape is. But you feel the benefit while slogging out.

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AlexF said..
If you feel the 10 litres more strongly depends on the shape. If you want more volume in your waveboard for floating but don't want to feel it when riding choose a more radical shape.
I (94kg) switched from a Goya Thruster 98 to a 2025 Quad 104 and on a wave it feels even more agile than the Thruster. The same in chop and strong winds. Maybe not as fast but that doesn't matter to me.
German Surf magazine took the same conclusion in their waveboard test last year. They did compare by brand the smaller allround shapes to the bigger radical model.
You don't feel the volume the more radical a shape is. But you feel the benefit while slogging out.

I'm not that sure if the JP is that radical. But it does not feel that different from my fanatic 105 freewave when it comes to the nose bouncing around. Oww yeah, I bought the JP magic wave. Unfortunately, I overpaid for it, but the pain is going away with more sessions that I get to ride it.
I did feel the extra volume one time I was about to gybe foot out of the back strap, and I saw a 1m shark. I slowed down and did not gybe; the shark saw me and went in the opposite direction. Glad to have the extra float at that time. I don't normally see sharks, maybe once or twice a year and usually on the small side, and they are in no way interested in me.

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Henners said.. I saw a 1m shark. I slowed down and did not gybe; the shark saw me and went in the opposite direction. Glad to have the extra float at that time. I don't normally see sharks, maybe once or twice a year and usually on the small side, and they are in no way interested in me.

That's cos the shark saw a giant pink thing with fins and got freaked out

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Mark _australia said..

Henners said.. I saw a 1m shark. I slowed down and did not gybe; the shark saw me and went in the opposite direction. Glad to have the extra float at that time. I don't normally see sharks, maybe once or twice a year and usually on the small side, and they are in no way interested in me.

That's cos the shark saw a giant pink thing with fins and got freaked out

Might have heard my girlish scream at the same time ;)

Hi mate,
Sounds like maybe you shouldn't change your Freewave STB for a couple of wave boards just yet - keep it for now.

I'm 86 kg and had the Pyro 87 (also tried bigger sizes), and I currently have the Magic Wave 105.
The Magic Wave feels a bit oversized for me - I don't like that feeling. I'd prefer this board in no more than 95 liters. It's slower compared to the Pyro but has a more "classic" behavior and outline.

The Pyro has a single concave and more volume in the front, which makes it easier to tack on ;)
You need to push it harder in top turns, but it's really fast and feels very light.
Top turns are technically a bit easier on the Magic Wave.

Both boards aren't particularly great for down-the-line (DTL) conditions.

Where do you usually sail?

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Loop800 said..
Hi mate,
Sounds like maybe you shouldn't change your Freewave STB for a couple of wave boards just yet - keep it for now.

I'm 86 kg and had the Pyro 87 (also tried bigger sizes), and I currently have the Magic Wave 105.
The Magic Wave feels a bit oversized for me - I don't like that feeling. I'd prefer this board in no more than 95 liters. It's slower compared to the Pyro but has a more "classic" behavior and outline.

The Pyro has a single concave and more volume in the front, which makes it easier to tack on ;)
You need to push it harder in top turns, but it's really fast and feels very light.
Top turns are technically a bit easier on the Magic Wave.

Both boards aren't particularly great for down-the-line (DTL) conditions.

Where do you usually sail?

Very interesting.
So far, I have only found it a little strange when I went over a wave and the tail popped up out of the water. It just felt very different; other than that, it's okay. Conditions here have only produced small chop, so still waiting to see what it's like in the waves.
I usually sail at two places.
1. Diato: beach break, cross to cross-on (in winter season). I can get onto the swell out the back. I am trying to get upwind on the swell, and that is taking me out of the wave-breaking area. The upwind phobia is going away, so I am going to start committing to get to the break, which is a little bit downwind from where I launch. Actually, there is a smaller break a little bit upwind of the launch, and I should really get up to there first.
2. ****uda: Cross to cross off, beach break, but it's helped with a concrete wall stretching out from the beach, and the waves curl around a little and stand up around the end of the concrete wall, so maybe a bit of a point break? Here, it is more challenging to get in and out, but getting onto a wave and riding it as it stands up is a lot easier for me. Riding it is the next challenge. This place only really works when spot 1 is over 2m; otherwise, the waves are on the small size, like ankle height.

Currently sitting in the rack is
'17 UltraKode 99L
'17 JP Wave Slate 99L
'17 Tabou Da Curve 86L

Going down in volume is not going to be a problem. The Da Curve is my favourite board, but it's got to be absolutely cranking for me to use it, and I also have to work hard.

I see that you're in WA in season. What is the wind like there? For me, it's usually very gusty, so getting through the lulls, I usually take something a little bigger in board and/or sails.

Your 99 litre boards should be in your sweetspot being 10 litres above your weight.
Why don't you use these boards?

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AlexF said..
Your 99 litre boards should be in your sweetspot being 10 litres above your weight.
Why don't you use these boards?

I bought the 99L at the end of last season with the intention of moving off the 105L Freewave and using only the 99L and when it was nuking to then go down to 86L. I was out on the 99L with a 6.2 and just going if I worked hard so I thought I would get a larger board that was wave oriented that I could get going in lighter wind, get through the lulls in gusty conditions, have extra time to think whilst catching waves and learn moves. I have been wave supping in the off season on 140'ish litre board and it really helped me get better so I thought something a bit bigger might help me progress.
I do notice a lot of my fellow sailors who are around the 70kg mark are riding 86L and up litre boards on the light wind and gusty days.

I think 6.2 is a very big wave sail, even for a 90kg rider.
You might need a sail that big in onshore condition but if it's side off or even proper side, you might be able to go with 5.3 or 5.5max

Sure in very lightwind, the 99 is too small, but it should be good in most conditions. I would say that the jp 115 should be a good complement to the starboard 99. 105 might be too close.

Despite being 94 kg and 194cm i quit riding wavesails bigger than 5.5.
I had 5.7 and 6.3 Goya Banzai and even a 6.3 Finge 3-batten, but these sails always felt more like wrestling than surfing to me.
Now my 5.5 Goya Max rigged for power does the job quite well.

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AlexF said..
Despite being 94 kg and 194cm i quit riding wavesails bigger than 5.5.
I had 5.7 and 6.3 Goya Banzai and even a 6.3 Finge 3-batten, but these sails always felt more like wrestling than surfing to me.
Now my 5.5 Goya Max rigged for power does the job quite well.

What conditions are you riding in? I'm about the same weight.In cross shore and cross off and where there's a channel for easy getting out I won't go bigger than a 5.5. But if it's cross on I go with whatever size I need (matched with the appropriate board size) in order to be able to get out. No waves ridden if I can't get out.

I ride from cross on to cross off, if it's too light for planing with the 5.5 but there are some punchy waves I'd rather do float and ride than wrestling a big sail while waveriding. And if it's too light for the 5.5 and also the waves are small I have to admit that I prefer wingfoiling in these conditions.

I see that most people here focus mainly on board volume, but I'd say there are actually three different types of boards that can ride waves. You may not feel a huge difference when the wind is strong and the waves have enough power. However, in light winds it makes a big difference.

1. Strong, peaky waves (pure float-and-ride conditions).
In these conditions it's better to take a larger board (101-115 L) with a more extreme rocker. Something like the JP Ultimate Wave, Starboard Hyper, or Simmer Flywave. These boards have narrow tails and they are usually about 61-63 cm wide and around 230 cm long. They are the best choice for float-and-ride on powerful waves. They'll help you to be in control despite of their large size.

2. Onshore / cross-onshore, imperfect waves.
If you mostly ride in onshore or cross-on conditions and the waves are far from perfect, it's better to take a faster, wider, flatter wave board. It should not be a stubby - stubbies need slow, powerful waves, not messy windswell.
There are many good options: any all-round wave board from ~100 L and ~63 cm width. It's better to set it up as a thruster - this makes going upwind easier and helps make tighter turns in weak waves. Boards like the JP Magic Wave, Severne Pyro, Starboard Ultra, etc., all fit this category.

3. Dead onshore + pure windswell (sea or bay).
In dead-onshore conditions on pure windswell, I'd recommend a freewave board. In the most difficult cases, even with a large single fin instead of a thruster.
A freewave has a faster rocker than any pure wave board. This helps you reach the lineup when you need to do long tacks because of dead onshore. A flat, fast rocker lets you keep planing in weak waves. Of course, it won't dig the rail or hold the wave face like a true wave board, and the turns won't be as tight. But you'll score more waves, while riders on "real" wave boards may struggle to plane.

So keep in mind both the type and the width of your boards. Sometimes a 99 L and a 105 L board can be so different from each other that both may be really necessary in one quiver.


As an alternative, you can consider large Severne Pyro. This board is really fast for a pure wave board, and in larger sizes it might replace a freewave. It turns better than a freewave, though I've only tried the Pyro up to 93 L - so this last part is just my assumption.

I wouldn't recommend sails over 5.6-5.7 m? for wavesailing unless you're over 2 meters tall. My own extreme light-wind choice is the Severne S-1 5.6. It rigs on a 400 mast and has only a 165 cm boom - comparable to a 4.7 from some other brands. Very light and easy to pump.
I used a 5-batten 6.2 for years, but now I'm selling it. It just doesn't give me the drive and control I need - only extra weight and boom length.