Rather than hijack the SHQ thread I’ll start a new one.

At the moment there are

52 members in Windsurfing Victoria, this is our STATE body

130+ Paid up members in Inverloch Windsurfing Club.

Found it had to get any info out of the others clubs listed on the WV site so their numbers are unknown.
Both clubs have similar membership costs

Windsurfing Victoria has 24/7 public liability insurance

Inverloch Windsurfing Club has Accident, third party, income protection and public liability

The biggest problem that I have with Windsurfing is with our sporting bodies. Its FRAGMENTED system that is not growing our sport

Organised racing in the traditional sense is controlled by Yachting Australia. Belonging to this body allows a club to apply for government grants to grow their sport. If you wish to compete in State/National or Olympic titles you must belong to YA. There has been a lack of support from YA for our sport over the last decade. Why?


Australian Windsurfing Association controls Slalom, wave, freestyle and formula Not recognised by government and cannot apply for government grants and relies on membership numbers to grow the sport. Lower numbers means less money for growth. WQ and WNSW look to be going against the Victorians trend to lower membership numbers. Why?

Should our state bodies be running our events? Or should it be left up to the clubs to run the events with state assistance? Should shops be running events? Given that there appears to be very few functional clubs left in Victoria, it’s up to the shops to run and promote this sport. This year, the shops are down to 3 having had RPS shut its doors after 25yrs. What’s the sport going to be like in another 10yrs……1 shop?

Something is currently working at IWC that’s not working in WV given that both clubs don’t do a lot of racing. Or is it that IWC is getting a growing share of a shrinking market?

Looking at the AWA/Vic web sites, they contain out of date or non functional links.

The NSW and IWC sites look great, are up to date and full of easy to find event info. Lift you game WV or get out of the way.

So how would I fix the system?

One body to control and promote the sport…..Yachting Australia gets my vote. It is recognised by government, has the finances to promote the sport, it has structured training programs and pathways to careers in our sport. It has access to Government to improve our inclusion in planning decisions. Encourage the formation of the clubs, similar to a Surfing club system and support proper governance.
Make social and peer support the most important part of your club. Works for Inverloch.

Stop IWC being the largest club in Victoria…….

Attend events, have fun or run your own event Help out at events, makes it easier to run more events if more people help

Allow “Guest” membership into events. WV can do this but refuses to do so.

Support your shops and if they can or won’t supply something TELL them why you shop online.

Update the web sites….. The current ones look crap and contain bad links and out-dated info. Update them regularly with photos, info, videos. Get your members coming back to the site. At the end of the day its up to us to grow this sport but we need a National body to support this.

Ask this question......What is AWA/WV or YA/YV doing for windsurfing ???? and is it ENOUGH !!!!

Thanks Craig for fleshing out some of the issues. I think a lot of the frustration in VIC stems from a lack of leadership and enthusiasm at the state level in Victoria. Other states seem to do OK under similar organisational chaos.

As for fragmentation just look at this mess:

www.windsurfing.org/files/info/AWA_Organisation_Structure.pdf

Or this crappy calendar:

http://www.wv.org.au/index.php/calendar

Compare it to this fun-filled calendar in NSW:

www.windsurfingnsw.com/calendar/

If Yachting Australia was to control and support the sport, how good would they be at running events? Do you mean "control & support" in the administrative sense only - because I don't think anyone at YA would know much about windsurfing events or be able to organise grass roots local marketing and development of the sport. Maybe I'm wrong.

So this raises the next issue. If as you say, the AWA doesn't have all the access to government support and grants that YA does, then why can't the AWA apply for full recognition by government? Perhaps they can't because of X, Y & Z. Insurance issues no doubt.

While we're at it, I'd suggest a name change for AWA to

Windsurfing Australia.

Make it sound like a serious and modern organisational body like Yachting Australia and bring the name into line with the state bodies. It appears the only reason for the name is to emulate the IWA.

As for doing away with the AWA and streamlining down to YA, again we'd need to ensure that the state windsurfing bodies remained in control of each state's activities and YA facilitated insurances, grants, marketing and major national events for us. Presently, the AWA is run by a group of office holders who also have key roles in each state windsurfing body. I'm not sure windsurfing would be well served by removing our own national organisational body - run by windsurfers for windsurfers. I'd prefer the AWA (Windsurfing Australia) obtain all the privileges available to YA other than insurance if that's cheaper through YA.

Now the IWC (Inverloch Windsurfing Club) is a great organisation with a successful approach to development and events. What I'd suggest in order to sort out this apparent conflict between WV and IWC is to either:

a) accept that the IWC will remain as a local club (the biggest yes) but that it will not interfere with WV organisation as in NSW for instance. It has it's own agenda and criteria for success. Most of it's members are not from Inverloch, so it's the true state club almost by default. Enjoy the limelight while it shines.

or better

b) the office holders at the IWC mount a takeover of WV because arguably, they're doing a better job for windsurfing in this state. When you have more than double the members, actually run some events, you practically are the state body. As with NSW, again, some club members are involved with running WNSW. Some new office holders will be needed to run the IWC as an affiliated body of WV.

So I trust that's not too radical and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been canvassed before.

So what it boils down to is this, if Craig you're asking for a state body that will actually start organising and running regular, well located and popular events, including racing events - then people will need to step up and contribute more. That's always the hard bit isn't it?

Well there's some redwood on your kindling...and I'm sure some upset people reading this too.

Hi

I'm no longer involved in wv myself (only thing I did was run kids club with Jerzy)

Talk of a "takeover" is a bit unnecessary. I'm not sure but I think the current president ran without challenge. I imagine that he would rather have some time to himself and with his young family.

The fact is that you can't run a windsurfing organisation from your keyboard. Events take enormous amounts of time out of your day, and you have to be there on the beach from the beginning until the end. This requires, more than a few, volunteers. The volunteers will only volunteer at any level for a couple of seasons...So you'll need a pipeline of them to replace the ones who move on (we stopped running kids club after three seasons and it stopped). What iwc does well is build a community of people, meaning that volunteering is natural because people are drawn together.

It would be great to have more racing but until we have more volunteers, we won't have it.

Having come from sailing moths, a class of small numbers in vic and a class that is very difficult to managed on the water and the beach. I am certain that some clubs in Melbourne would happily include us in some races if we are members of Yachting Victoria though a club such as Involoch. We could be racing every Sunday at Black Rock yacht club on the same start as the fast skiffs. If we had 5-10 we could have our own start.

By racing at a club like black rock that has a strong junior presence we are also promoting windsurfing to the up and coming to get some fresh blood.

Thats just my two cents.

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ginger pom said..
Hi

I'm no longer involved in wv myself (only thing I did was run kids club with Jerzy)

Talk of a "takeover" is a bit unnecessary. I'm not sure but I think the current president ran without challenge. I imagine that he would rather have some time to himself and with his young family.

The fact is that you can't run a windsurfing organisation from your keyboard. Events take enormous amounts of time out of your day, and you have to be there on the beach from the beginning until the end. This requires, more than a few, volunteers. The volunteers will only volunteer at any level for a couple of seasons...So you'll need a pipeline of them to replace the ones who move on (we stopped running kids club after three seasons and it stopped). What iwc does well is build a community of people, meaning that volunteering is natural because people are drawn together.

It would be great to have more racing but until we have more volunteers, we won't have it.

Interesting points. I'm responding to Craig's issues. Obviously, if Craig and IWC are unhappy with WV, then running for committee positions is the most obvious way of achieving organisational change. Sure, one can get upset about the term "takeover" but that's what it would amount to. No point sugar-coating it. I'm not a politician so why spin it as anything else?

So in essence we agree. We need more volunteers and if people want things to change at WV then they need to be the ones to instigate the change and give their time.

What I don't agree with ginger, is your assertion that talking about it on SB is not valid. It gives a lot of people the chance to see a discussion and contribute. The discussion needs to start somewhere and one can't expect an AGM with a handful of attendees to be the place where that must happen still.

No one is asserting that one can completely "run an organisation from a keyboard" but, this is 2015 and the internet is quite important as a tool of communication and organisation - something that WV is still really struggling with. This is unacceptable in 2015. WNSW gets this. Their communication is clear and their organisation pro-active.

Most important, I'm sure Craig's intention is NOT to point the finger at anyone currently volunteering their time at WV. I'm sure what he wants to see is simply a better outcome for all windsurfers in Victoria.

I don't disagree entirely, but there is still a place for some formal events. Definitely yes we need GPS Freerace as an option.

The Lake George Speed Event 2013 is a great example of how informal GPS competition can work, but even that fizzled after a couple of years, so there goes your argument! Burrum Windsfest is running GPS Team Freerace but part of a sanctioned event.

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Bonominator said...


What I don't agree with ginger, is your assertion that talking about it on SB is not valid. It gives a lot of people the chance to see a discussion and contribute. The discussion needs to start somewhere and one can't expect an AGM with a handful of attendees to be the place where that must happen still.

No one is asserting that one can completely "run an organisation from a keyboard" ...

I didn't say discussing it wasn't valid...and the point about running it from a keyboard was to hammer home how much time is involved...you can't do it efficiently, or digitally, in a lot of cases with technology. GPS racing is valid but it's more like windsurfing strava...rather than events, community, racing in a pack etc

I suppose, go ahead discuss it here as long as you like, but it's much better to lead with some action and then encourage people to follow

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OldM8 said..
Having come from sailing moths, a class of small numbers in vic and a class that is very difficult to managed on the water and the beach. I am certain that some clubs in Melbourne would happily include us in some races if we are members of Yachting Victoria though a club such as Involoch. We could be racing every Sunday at Black Rock yacht club on the same start as the fast skiffs. If we had 5-10 we could have our own start.

By racing at a club like black rock that has a strong junior presence we are also promoting windsurfing to the up and coming to get some fresh blood.

Thats just my two cents.

This is why IWC is part of YA.

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goodtimes said...

Slalom racing is poor way to compete........a lot come downs to luck and around the mark in terms of clean water and collision and way to much emphasis on the start
Its the crash and bash of windsurfing, or your putting around on a race course.............

Sport ? With luck in it? That'll never catch on.

Sorry, but there's something very human about racing in the presence of others...people run faster in races than in training

I think most have missed the point of my rant.

The problem isn't committed people who want to do something its the overall structure of windsurfing in general.

How does WV hope to grow the sport with both hands tied behind their backs.

FINISH the process that allows you to be recognised by Government!

What's your process for growing the sport in Vic with no Gov support and a small membership base

Should windsurfing be a divided sport with no drive from either YA or AWA to increase participation

IWC is a club for INVERLOCH and its members NOT taking over WV although some of its members are AWA as I am/was

Should WV or shops be running events or should it be like YV and IWC where the club runs the event. We've tried the WV way for years and ITS broken

WV should be assisting the formation of clubs, who run events and increase participation in their community. That's what every other sporting codes DO

AFL/NRL, Netball, basketball etc...... Get my point AWA/WV

Awa/wv are like five blokes. It's not like the state government.

You don't need to rage online...just name a pub and buy the first round...

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ginger pom said...
Awa/wv are like five blokes. It's not like the state government.

You don't need to rage online...just name a pub and buy the first round...

NO !!!!!! Incorrect ,AWA and WV have stood up to represent Windsurfing. It's about time they finish the process that they were empowered to do and I find it sad that you are the sole rep commenting here. have a look at how other sports conduct there business . I want our sport to succeed ,not die and I choose to support IWC and YV as our best chance to continue as demonstrated by the clubs numbers. I want WV to be the best it can be but its restricted by AWA inaction..
Just maybe I'll turn up at a meeting and ask the questions that should be asked. Remember it's not about the people who volunteer their time it's about doing what should be done for the sport.

Ok, ok, calm down.... they'll buy the first round.

The internet is great for some things....news, ordering food from Coles, seeing what your old girlfriends look like now, porn etc, but this feels like something that it's not that great for....Not least because this conversation has been had every year for five years and nothing has happened.

I'm serious about the pub idea. I'll mediate if you like, but I'm prone to sarcasm so maybe pick someone else.

^^^ Well I think this attitude may help explain the dysfunction! ^^^

Do you mean my attitude? If so, I'm nothing to do with wv anymore and when I was I was teaching kids for three summers....

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ginger pom said..
Do you mean my attitude? If so, I'm nothing to do with wv anymore and when I was I was teaching kids for three summers....

Yes I do. You're now making fun of a serious discussion and your past work has nothing to do with this. Not everything can be resolved with a laugh and a beer, let alone Monty Python! We all love a larrikin, but this is not the place.

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Bonominator said...

ginger pom said..
Do you mean my attitude? If so, I'm nothing to do with wv anymore and when I was I was teaching kids for three summers....

Yes I do. You're now making fun of a serious discussion and your past work has nothing to do with this. Not everything can be resolved with a laugh and a beer, let alone Monty Python!

I'm making fun of a DISCUSSION. Because discussions are sacred?

Discussions are bull**** when they happen every year in exactly the same way.... Whiny whiny whiny

Continue your discussion below. Maybe set up a "talking about the organisation of windsurfing in Victoria association" TATOOWIVA... catchy

To be fair, you had suggested some actions above...so maybe it's not you specifically

Well I guess that's it for another year's discussion. Well done ginger....with friends like you....

BTW you didn't venture an opinion on the core proposition regarding Yachting Australia - did you?

It might be a good idea... Doesn't make sense for waves or freestyle though.
One problem is windsurfing and getting national recognition in order to access funding... Yachting Victoria is one solution.

But if nsw can make it work, then this isn't the problem necessarily.

Also lets practice what we preach...

For example, I'm up for supporting local shops. I do this by buying things from them. Like boards and sails.

Also, I'm up for taking action on this so I've invited the people together to talk it through.

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Bonominator said..
I don't disagree entirely, but there is still a place for some formal events. Definitely yes we need GPS Freerace as an option.

The Lake George Speed Event 2013 is a great example of how informal GPS competition can work, but even that fizzled after a couple of years, so there goes your argument! Burrum Windsfest is running GPS Team Freerace but part of a sanctioned event.

Mmm interesting discussion.
the LG event was put on by a GPSTC team and didn't continue because WSA would not cover our format with any insurance cover they wanted only a set date event and our rolling 3 month summer period they wouldn't have a bar off. would have loved to keep that format and event going and even still have sponsors on board.
WSA only cover for insurance when competing in an event not 24/7 would have thought WV went the same that's the reason I let my membership lapse as there are no events.
same here in SA we have NO clubs that I know off even though there is a list on the old ancient website.
racing is also non existent in any discipline slalom longboard or formula let alone crowning a state champion.
good luck boys will keep an eye on the outcome.

Interesting points Jimbob. It is indeed a great shame that the format could not continue under the sanction of WSA.

Now I am not sure, but it sounds like such a format could be sanctioned and run by a club affiliated with Yachting Australia and the state body (Yachting SA?)

It is highly likely that something like one or more of the current GPS teams could formally form a Club affiliated with YA as well if they wished?

Hmmmmm.........

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ginger pom said..

Bonominator said...

ginger pom said..
Do you mean my attitude? If so, I'm nothing to do with wv anymore and when I was I was teaching kids for three summers....

Yes I do. You're now making fun of a serious discussion and your past work has nothing to do with this. Not everything can be resolved with a laugh and a beer, let alone Monty Python!

I'm making fun of a DISCUSSION. Because discussions are sacred?

Discussions are bull**** when they happen every year in exactly the same way.... Whiny whiny whiny

Continue your discussion below. Maybe set up a "talking about the organisation of windsurfing in Victoria association" TATOOWIVA... catchy

There is a big difference between whining and constructive discussion.

I have been a member of WV (and before that SAV!) for over 35 years, probably since it was formed. I can remember when Windsurfing Clubs affiliated with WV used to run some pretty good competitions. That definitely worked at the time. Alas, all those clubs appear to have gone. It does seem strange that the State body, not clubs under it, should run events

BTW, I don't recall hearing of, or being a part of discussions that 'happen every year in exactly the same way.... Whiny whiny whiny' Maybe that is something that has taken place behind closed doors, or in a pub somewhere?

I know personally a number of very committed people who put a lot of personal effort into trying to do their best for Victorian Windsurfing in WV. Their efforts are highly appreciated. It appears to me that what is being suggested here is that there may be a better way of organising the whole structure of Windsurfing in Victoria. That is certainly worth exploring at the very least.

Sounds like one more drink I need to buy. Pm me your email

Parkdale yc seems to be doing something right
average fleet size of 15 boring WOD
they sail every Sunday light winds, strong winds, moderate wind
they do salon free style and occasionally marathon races
wave riding and jumping.

Ha I get red thumbs ok
you want to know what's wrong with vic windsurfing !!!

This is what happens when it isn't windy.

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windsufering said..
Parkdale yc seems to be doing something right
average fleet size of 15 boring WOD
they sail every Sunday light winds, strong winds, moderate wind
they do salon free style and occasionally marathon races
wave riding and jumping.

That might be Yachting Victoria

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jermaldan said..
This is what happens when it isn't windy.

HA, Spot on!

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jermaldan said..
This is what happens when it isn't windy.

No this is what happens when I get sick of the same excuses of why stuff is being done.

This discussion needs to happen and in a civilised manner, otherwise were dead as a sport.

Just for asking ,every seen one of these for AWA or WV

Governance concerns three key issues:

1 --How an organisation develops strategic goals and direction

2---How the board/committee of an organisation monitors the performance of the organisation to ensure it achieves these strategic goals

3---has effective systems in place and complies with its legal and regulatory obligations ensuring that the board/committee acts in the best interests of the members

Checked both AWA and WV web sites couldn't find anything. Anyone know a location?

The AWA financials are a interesting read, couldn't find WV's one