Guys,

After taking your previous advice about what board i should get for the bay I tried out a JP SS 118 today down at Green point.

I was the first one out and start by just floating about and had a small walk of shame, but when i got out i had been over powered on my 6.2.

I was hoping to be blown away by the board but i had a mixed experience.
It was quick, but not frightening so ( may be i am a better sailor than i give myself credit for ) and it did bounce around a bit at times but that was probably me.

Surprisingly, i did spinout a few times which i wasn't expecting with the big 42cm fin in place.

The board didn't feel overly big as it the widest and thickest board i have sailed for sometime and i did feel those benefits off the plan.

I suppose my question is ( see photo ) my old carve is still kicking and i am not sure that based on my brief sail today that the apparent difference in performance on this new board warrants my old carves retirement.

What do you think??

cheers Mick

Ps the biggest sail i have used on the carve is a 7.8 and it handled it well.

Hello, Mick,

The JP Pro series are very stiff and most magazine tests comment that you get a lot of feedback from the board. This might be part of the reason that it bounced around a bit. Also, using a 42cm with a 6.2m sail will cause the board to ride up on the fin once you get going, adding to the bounce. Most magazines recommend that each board have 3 fins and personally, on my own JP 115L SS today, I started on my 36 cm JP fin, went down to a 32cm B & J type (not JP), then swapped down to a 95 litre board.

Any fin can be made to spin out and if the fin got a gutful of air when you were bouncing, that may be part of the reason for the spinout. Again, personally, I find the JP fins very good in their performance and one of the factors that I look for in a fin is that, if it is spinning out, can it re-grab the water by dragging the back of the board back under your behind, whilst going sideways at full speed. A good fin will do it, a bad fin will not and must be almost stopped before the water re-attaches itself to the fin. For me, I can get the JP fins back under control at full speed.

As for speed, the only true test is by GPS, or racing against your mates. Perhaps you should try to beat JMan the next time he's at GP?

Hope this helps.

Thanks WindmanV,

It does help.

I once made a very poor purchase with my windsurfing kit which i can ill afford to do again.

Starboard Evo 92, I'll say no more on that one.

So i am very keen not to get it wrong again.

thanks for your time.

Mick

Mick,

Further to your fin problem.

The SS 118 comes standard with the 42 cm fin, probably aimed to work with 7.5m + sails. For a 6.2m sail, Select fins suggest a 33ccm fin for this 65 cm wide board when used with a 6-ish sail: http://www.select-hydrofoils.com/en/selector/speed-slalom-race/.

My 36 cm fin works well with my 7.5m sail, but occasionally, I might use a 42 cm fin if I'm having trouble planing. As stated in my previous post, I would also use the 36 cm fin with my 6-ish sail but prefer a fin of about 32 cm if I'm fully powered.

Also, the straight-up-and down standard fin is more difficult to gybe than a fin that is slightly curved back. Using Select again: www.sunshinecoastsailboards.com.au/Components/Board-Components/Fins/Select/Select-SRide-Pro-Series.html I'd expect that you would feel the difference and other fin brands may offer a fin even more swept back (in passing, have you ever used a 42 cm fin with the Carve?).

Compared to your Carve, the SS should plane earlier (given the same sail and fin size) and glide better during the wind lulls. This comes about because of the width in the centre of the board and the tail width, too. Depending on your weight, both boards should start to become a handful as the wind whips up the waves and the water becomes very choppy. I think that you should be able to hold onto the Carve for a bit longer than the SS because it is narrower all through.

The SS will definitely be harder to gybe. You have to go into a gybe close to full speed, use a wide radius and really bank the board over to keep it going so as to come out on a plane. There's nothing wrong with stalling through a gybe as long as you don't fall in (in this, I take my own advice). It takes maybe 2 good sailing days of good wind to master the SS in gybes. Also, you have to remember that JP aim the SS at upper-level intermediates and higher, because the SS is close to a race board.

I would HOPE that the SS is faster than the Carve, but you need to race against the JMan to gauge the speed of the Carve vs his SS.

Hope this helps.

Hi WindmanV,

thanks for you time again.

Its interesting you mention select fins because thats what i have used mainly in my starboards over the years.

The carve 111 i have had as my bigger board for a while has always had a select style fin 34cm. The biggest sail i used was an older Aerotech which was a 7.8m that worked really well as a combo. I cant remember ever feeingl under finned. Also this was always used on British coastal waters as i have never sailed on fresh water. Using that combo i never felt it needed a bigger fin, but at times i suppose getting planning would have been helped.

Thanks again for you comments on the SS. Its been a subject of a lot of thought today as i have a birthday coming up and a few dollars to put to a board if i desire.

Its interesting to me that if i ran over the old carve in the garage and needed to replace it i would struggle to find a modern board with similar dimensions for its volume. I suppose the windsurfing world has just moved on from the guny shapes i am used to.

thanks again

Mick

Don't retire the carve 111.

The carve shapes are legendary and there is a reason that they were virtually unchanged for many years. (they only changed them by making them blue-er)

They have a lot of v which is great for the conditions we get on the bay (smoothing out the chop), yet they are also pretty fast too. If you were at SP the SS would come into its own for speed, but on the chop of the bay, some people find they go faster on a smoother more controllable board 'cos it gives them the confidence to lock the power in, rather than spill wind on a bouncier board.

A mate of mine loves his super sport, but also loves changing down to a smoother board when the conditions get too bumpy.

The carves are also regarded as great boards to jibe.

Select to expand quote

WindmanV said...

Mick,

Further to your fin problem.

The SS 118 comes standard with the 42 cm fin, probably aimed to work with 7.5m + sails. For a 6.2m sail, Select fins suggest a 33ccm fin for this 65 cm wide board when used with a 6-ish sail: http://www.select-hydrofoils.com/en/selector/speed-slalom-race/.

My 36 cm fin works well with my 7.5m sail, but occasionally, I might use a 42 cm fin if I'm having trouble planing. As stated in my previous post, I would also use the 36 cm fin with my 6-ish sail but prefer a fin of about 32 cm if I'm fully powered.

Also, the straight-up-and down standard fin is more difficult to gybe than a fin that is slightly curved back. Using Select again: www.sunshinecoastsailboards.com.au/Components/Board-Components/Fins/Select/Select-SRide-Pro-Series.html I'd expect that you would feel the difference and other fin brands may offer a fin even more swept back (in passing, have you ever used a 42 cm fin with the Carve?).

Compared to your Carve, the SS should plane earlier (given the same sail and fin size) and glide better during the wind lulls. This comes about because of the width in the centre of the board and the tail width, too. Depending on your weight, both boards should start to become a handful as the wind whips up the waves and the water becomes very choppy. I think that you should be able to hold onto the Carve for a bit longer than the SS because it is narrower all through.

The SS will definitely be harder to gybe. You have to go into a gybe close to full speed, use a wide radius and really bank the board over to keep it going so as to come out on a plane. There's nothing wrong with stalling through a gybe as long as you don't fall in (in this, I take my own advice). It takes maybe 2 good sailing days of good wind to master the SS in gybes. Also, you have to remember that JP aim the SS at upper-level intermediates and higher, because the SS is close to a race board.

I would HOPE that the SS is faster than the Carve, but you need to race against the JMan to gauge the speed of the Carve vs his SS.

Hope this helps.

I agree with WindmanV. I use a 42cm fin with a 7.5m sail most of the time. If I get over-powered I go down to a 36cm fin. I was out on Sunday with my 5.9m sail and the 36cm fin was way big enough (maybe too big in the gusts). Sometimes going fast doesn't 'feel' fast because the board is trimmed correctly and you are in control (especially at Sandy Point). It took my a couple of weeks to get used to the board.

cheers All,

good advice i am sure.

The board went back to SHQ today and as Luke said that boards not for everybody on the bay.

I think he's right.

cheers

My 2c

If you want to go fast on the bay you really need a board with some V in the bottom. Flat boards will go quick on flat water but in the crap chop we get here they are too uncomfortable.

I have been designing a few boards lately, put quite a bit of V in them and man they are so much easier to push fast in the slop than some of the flatter bottomed boards I have had in the past.

So recomendations?? Well my RRD Freestyle Wave just rocks, it's so, so easy. Bloody fast too which surprised me. I am full of praise for this board.
Tabou put quite some V and concave in the Rocket, a while since I rode one but it was also really easy to sail fast in chop.
Starboard Futura is probably worth a look as well.

Or you could just keep the Carve.

Select to expand quote

Northern Monkey said...

cheers All,

good advice i am sure.

The board went back to SHQ today and as Luke said that boards not for everybody on the bay.

I think he's right.

cheers

Have a look at the Carbon Art slalom boards if you can, they ride the swell and chop really well and still go fast. Make a great free ride board as well

cheers all,

I do have a recent RRD FSW, 96ltrs i think. Great board, even better with a new bigger fin.

The carve is only to be used for my 7.5m sail.

Mick

Test the Futura.

I've got a 111l - my second - and it is fast and easy to sail. I've always found JPs more direct and therefore maybe a bit more exciting in the same conditions and sail setup. But a little less excitement means greater control and higher speeds.

I'm 80kgs and sail it with a 5.7 up to a 8.5 V6 (cammed).

Best thing about them is how easy they are to tune for the bay chop. Shifting the mast foot slightly changes the ride so you're skipping over the chop instead of ploughing through it.

I have the Futura 122 wood thingy and i love it, i used to have the JP super sport which was great and sailed fast with no trouble. I found that turning the JP harder than it should have been when coming off a excite ride and then sailing the supersport.

I think the main issue i have with the JP is that it's all very boring yes it's fast but you don't feel like your really going for it. the excite is heaps more fun (older ones the new one is a real let down)

Give the Starboard a go it takes a little getting used to but nothing comes close to the way it takes off and it's great to jump aswell.

cheers Guys,

A SB Futura is on my list of boards to try out.

Thanks again.

Mick

I would also recommend to give the Tabou Rocket a go. I swear by this board, it's fast on flat water, smooth in the bay (dbl concave in the front) and easy to gybe. I'm a 95kg heavy weight sailing my Rocket 105 from a 5.5m up to a 7.5m NeilPryde cambered V8 and the standard 36cm fin. Have just recently bought a 1 yr old SB Futura 93 and have yet to take it to the bay, but i feel it's way more direct.

Cheers mate.

Tabou and fanatic also make it on to the test wish list.

Mick