From what I see regularly at beaches here in OZ I am making the assumption that the majority of people will own at least one 5.4 and one 4.7. As a matter of fact it seems most people have 5.4ish / 4.7ish and 4.2ish as their standard quiver.

Now tell me why manufacturers insist to design each of those sizes to require a different mast length. I have had a look through several 2012 web sites of different sail makers and with very few exceptions they all use a different mast length for each of those sail sizes.

Assuming you will want to have a some spares in case you break a mast you might end up spending more money on masts than the sails themselves.

I hear people complaining about there not being enough newbies coming to the sport. Well a good start would be to reduce the amount of required gear.

Anyone can shed some light.

Is this a serious question?

There is always going to be some point at which a different length mast is required. It just happens that at the moment with the way sail design is heading and the aspect ratios which are being used, the jump from a 400 to 370 mast occurs around the 5m sail size.

There are sail ranges out there which are designed around a specific mast size, but from what I can tell there is generally a performance compromise (north and np both do one if I recall correctly). A lot of the big manufacturers also choose to use an adjustable head for sails requiring a mast shorter then 400. Thou personally I hate adjustable heads and would rather just have the right mast.

I think it's a good size for the jump to occur, as I have 2 sails >5m and 2 sails smaller. And I think most wave/freestyle sailors are in a similar position where their quivers are 5.9 - 5.2 - 4.7 - 4.2. You can't expect a single mast to cover all those sizes, so a change in mast size around 5m seems reasonable to me? But then I don't spend most of my time whining about how manufacturers don't seem to build their gear specifically to suit my personal needs.

If this is really an issue for you, cut 15cm off your 400 mast.

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swoosh said...
And I think most wave/freestyle sailors are in a similar position where their quivers are 5.9 - 5.2 - 4.7 - 4.2. You can't expect a single mast to cover all those sizes, so a change in mast size around 5m seems reasonable to me?

Nope... not one mast to cover this range but surely it doesn't have to be 3 (or as in the case of one manufacturer even 4) different mast sizes.

The argument that you can't cover this range with two different mast lengths due to performance issues is laziness in my opinion. Anyone that says it can't be done either hans't tried hard enough or really should just say "I can't do it".

BTW, it seems it can be done as German company Sailloft proves with their Curve wave sail... and no this is not supposed to be an endorsement or add for them. I am just merely asking the question why manufactures can try to keep the amount of required parts such as masts to a minimum?

Yep, my 6.2 / 5.7 / 5.2 / 4.7 quiver recommends 430/400/370 RDMs but it also says I can use a 400 for the 4.7.

The one thing I don't understand is why some sails have a luff of say 428cms with a recommended mast of 400 and extension of 28cms. Why not just design around a luff 2cms longer and a slightly stiffer mast?!

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stehsegler said...

swoosh said...
And I think most wave/freestyle sailors are in a similar position where their quivers are 5.9 - 5.2 - 4.7 - 4.2. You can't expect a single mast to cover all those sizes, so a change in mast size around 5m seems reasonable to me?

Nope... not one mast to cover this range but surely it doesn't have to be 3 (or as in the case of one manufacturer even 4) different mast sizes.

The argument that you can't cover this range with two different mast lengths due to performance issues is laziness in my opinion. Anyone that says it can't be done either hans't tried hard enough or really should just say "I can't do it".

BTW, it seems it can be done as German company Sailloft proves with their Curve wave sail... and no this is not supposed to be an endorsement or add for them. I am just merely asking the question why manufactures can try to keep the amount of required parts such as masts to a minimum?

Theres nothing stopping you buying sails that fit on one mast for those sails. Most sail brands have a long and short luff length sails. So just buy short length 5.4 and long or mid length 4.7. In saying that there are plenty of sails in those sizes which fit on the same mast, severne blade or s1 is one example.

Obviously having different sails even of the same brand will have a different feel but that is the compromise. I would say the exact same reason why many brands use different size masts, to get the feel which they are looking for in that particular sail.

Of course it can be done but more than likely the 4.2 on a 400 will feel like a completly different sail to the 5.7 on the same 400, so you may aswell just buy different sails in their range with longer or shorter luff lengths. Probably the same thinking for most brands.

I have the Severne blades , 4.0m , 4.5m , 5.0m , 5.5m all on 400 mast
the 5.7m can fit on a 400 as well.
There are brands out there.

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TAA said...

I have the Severne blades , 4.0m , 4.5m , 5.0m , 5.5m all on 400 mast
the 5.7m can fit on a 400 as well.
There are brands out there.

G'day Ty
You could probably do the same with most brands, but are you really going to get the performance you're paying for with 16cm of mast sticking out the top the sail at one end of the spectrum and rigging with 42cm of extension at the other end... doubtful! Sounds like marketing gibberish to me!

Stehsegler
The manufacturers could make one mast to fit your 4.7 & 5.4... this year! What happens next season when the sails may be a bit longer/shorter in the luff? you end up back in the same position. I'd be pretty happy for them to leave the masts at the same lengths they've been for years.

I don't think this is really true anymore... you will notice a lot of the newer wave sails are rigging on shorter masts/luff length and are designed around smaller masts (check out latest boardseeker review)

http://www.boardseekermag.com/windsurfing-equipment-tests/2011/4.7-wave-sails-test-overview.html

so now is it very easy as people say to have 4.2 to 5.7 with one mast and good performance because they are designed around it. For example the S-1 can be rigged like this and works very well.

wish i had this problem!
If i had wnd that strong id get the right mast for each sail and be happy about it.
If I couldnt afford it id sell my kidney or something.
Smallest sales are 5.5 & 5.7m on a 430 which rarely gets used, then a 6.5, 7.0 and 7.8 on a 460 . So 2 masts across 5 sails not to bad i reckon.

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stehsegler said...
BTW, it seems it can be done as German company Sailloft proves with their Curve wave sail... and no this is not supposed to be an endorsement or add for them. I am just merely asking the question why manufactures can try to keep the amount of required parts such as masts to a minimum?

North Ices are apparently designed to rig on a 400 mast across the whole range. It can be done, but not everyone wants the compromises that result. If this is really an issue why not buy some Curves/Ices?

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BenKirk said...


The one thing I don't understand is why some sails have a luff of say 428cms with a recommended mast of 400 and extension of 28cms. Why not just design around a luff 2cms longer and a slightly stiffer mast?!

The problem is you will have some people who want to use their 430 mast. However someone like me, I'd prefer a 428 luff so I can use my 400 mast (don't own a 430 anymore). They can't please everyone, so really all they can do is design each size to work as best as possible.

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BenKirk said...


The one thing I don't understand is why some sails have a luff of say 428cms with a recommended mast of 400 and extension of 28cms. Why not just design around a luff 2cms longer and a slightly stiffer mast?!

1st, I'm pretty sure the last time anybody sold a 430 was in 1996.

For the smaller sizes you'll find most companies have been trying to stay in the 400 bracket as long as possible. This sucks.

Last year I could fit a 400 in my 4.5, and this year I need an adjustable tip for this. I am thankful though because I run it with a 370 anyway. It's a small sail, the flex in the 370 is much better. Unfortunately the adjustable tip to accomodate all the BurtWards who don't own a 370 is a little annoying..

It could be designed to run on a 400 but it would be a compromised sail.

i used to run a 400 mast to cover most bases - with a 430 tip for the longer masts (the 6.0)

i have been informed by the sail designer that this is

VERY NAUGHTY

as the mast curves become compromised

i make the most of two masts by owning, 4.2, 4.5, 4.7, 5.0, 5.4, 5.9

You can always use sails with adjustable heads.

Run a 520 mast with all sizes.

This works well except for forward & back loops, the mast gets stuck in the sand

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jsnfok said...

4.2, 4.5, 4.7,

Small gaps bro

I also use two masts for 4.2, 4.7, 5.2, 5.9. I should really rig the 4.2 on a 370 but it's a brand new sail and haven't had it wet yet (old 4.2 worked well with 400). If need be i'll buy a 370. Masts aren't that cheap but if you buy good ones (I run ezzy skinny's [powerex]) then you will rarely break one. Since I've had skinny's i've bought half a mast (you can buy half an ezzy [so win]) in 5 years of trying stupid flips and other shens, compared to sails, peanuts.

try a extendo 30cm on the bottom. use one on my 400 to rig my 6m naish stealth. works well. a very undermentioned piece of equiptment i think.
sorry thats my son loggged in--- i am gerared4knots

samo

i run a 400 on my 2012 north Hero 4.5 and 5.0 and the same mast on my 5.4 Duke

It can be done

yep, 5.4, 5.0 Naish boxer and 4.5 session on one 400 mast

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CJW said...

jsnfok said...

4.2, 4.5, 4.7,

Small gaps bro

I also use two masts for 4.2, 4.7, 5.2, 5.9. I should really rig the 4.2 on a 370 but it's a brand new sail and haven't had it wet yet (old 4.2 worked well with 400). If need be i'll buy a 370. Masts aren't that cheap but if you buy good ones (I run ezzy skinny's [powerex]) then you will rarely break one. Since I've had skinny's i've bought half a mast (you can buy half an ezzy [so win]) in 5 years of trying stupid flips and other shens, compared to sails, peanuts.

yea, it is, but you can tell the difference, i only use the 4.2 for nuking, but the wind here is super consistent so i can rig to the exact size, and i got em for a good price

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jsnfok said...

CJW said...

jsnfok said...

4.2, 4.5, 4.7,

Small gaps bro

I also use two masts for 4.2, 4.7, 5.2, 5.9. I should really rig the 4.2 on a 370 but it's a brand new sail and haven't had it wet yet (old 4.2 worked well with 400). If need be i'll buy a 370. Masts aren't that cheap but if you buy good ones (I run ezzy skinny's [powerex]) then you will rarely break one. Since I've had skinny's i've bought half a mast (you can buy half an ezzy [so win]) in 5 years of trying stupid flips and other shens, compared to sails, peanuts.

yea, it is, but you can tell the difference, i only use the 4.2 for nuking, but the wind here is super consistent so i can rig to the exact size, and i got em for a good price

As the wind gets more nuclear, the gaps need to be smaller.

I have a 4.3 for 35 knots and I am thinking of getting a 4.0 for 40 knots plus (and to double as my 12 year olds' light wind sail )

At the other end of the quiver, you need to get progressively bigger gaps. I go 5.7, 6.2 (6.4 would be better) then 7.4