Just out of interest, who makes the strongest production waveboards, in terms of holding up to repeated big jumps. Obviously every board is eventually going to have its day, but out of the major brands which ones hold up best (don't crease, snap, delam). I've heard good things about the fanatics even though they are very light. Does anyone know about the kinetic construction, i think they have their own factory but on the web i can't find anything about their construction.

Also, is it true that boards (customs) made with closed cell foam are more prone to delamination?

I'm not actually planning on buying a board anytime soon, so no need to try and sell me anything! Would really appreciate opinions from people who shape/fix a lot of boards and understand what's going on with the different companies constructions. Thanks

I have had an AHD maui force 8'4 for about 3 years now and flogged the guts out of it. Big jumps, flat landings, forwards,backwards, blown out the back of me ute and landed on bitumen with hardly even a scratch, broken uni joints(didnt even puncture deck). Then left in ute with tonneua cover on and it heated up like an oven and pushed the dints out where the uni joint hit the deck. When i took the bung out it hissed for minute. Its still going strong with no creases delamination or cracks.

i had a mate with a starboard d-ram construction and it wasn't the best. in fact he know has two of the bastards, right down the middle.

not recommended. it gets two poles down

poley

Unfortunately in this sport all wave boards are breakable. I cant think of a brand with any numbers on the water which i haven't seen creased or snapped in two.

The only way to avoid this is for us to have wave boards that weigh 8.5kgs each - or cost $3000 or more. (or learn good jump technique and avoid flat landings). This debate has raged on forums over the years and this is a well worn path of debate and conjecture.

Certainly i can think of particular sailors who break boards left right and centre - definitely a technique thing.


With Starboard having such large a large market share in Australia the chances are that if a board breaks it may be a Starboard as there are so many out there.


We are lucky enough to have an idea of warranty rates worldwide and The Starboard Acid range , statistically, has one of the lowest breakage rates in the industry - its a selling point of the brand and the model.

You probably have heard that that most sailboards are made at the same factory. What you probably dont know is that over the last 5 years Starboard have actually been driving construction technology forward as the factory has been able to learn from the R and D that Svein, Tiesda and Per put into the boards (much of this punishing Rand D happens in OZ at locations such as Gnaraloo, Gerro, Scarbs, Margaret river etc-i'm sure , if you have spent any time in WA , you have seen the guys testing the gear) and sell this on to the other manufacturers who get the improved technology cheap - but are still a year or 2 off the pace - Starboard are a big , progressive organisation and really are forging ahead fast when it comes to construction technology.

As for shaping technology - its no secret that the rest of the market tends to lag and follow behind Starboard's lead. Go boards, Start boards, Evos, Acids , Formula,Sonic, Hypersonic and Carves are all examples where Starboard have been AT LEAST a year ahead of the pack.

As an example The reason that wood reinforcement can be found in many boards these days can be directly credited to Starboard's success with this technology.

1 good trick in wave sailing is to use a boge style (fat black , soft) joint in your mast base - the tendon style joints can be too stiff and increase the odds of you popping a board when you stick that massive endo ! The boge has just the right amount of give.

In short - We are sorry that your friend's board snapped.But it can happen to any board. Due to Starboard's technology there is, statistically, less chance that it will happen on a Starboard. Starboards do come with an excellent 1 year warranty. We aim to turn around warranty gear super fast nationwide to minimise off water time for our customers.

i hope this helps you get some perspective on this tricky issue.

i think someone rides a starboard

Davo There are two types of closed cell foam, I have found if they are just covered with glass and resin they can delam easily but if they are covered with a pvc sandwhich, delam is very rare Glenn Alexander used one of my closed cell sandwich boards for 3 years going for double forwards and landing huge I mean HUGE pushies with no problems up at Greenhead but before this board he snapped a few other brand
boards and delamed heel areas. Gazza uses one that is about 4 years old, it still has a hole in the deck (from a broken UJ bolt I think) that the slacker never fixed he has just stuffed wax in and no delam or h2o problems.

I have noticed in the last 2 years that production boards seem to be stronger but they now also weigh a bit more.

I have owned several makes of board, the only one I have ever broken was a starboard. Maybe as there are many starboards in Australia that is why it broke.
Or maybe it is because they are made out of paper mache and spit.

Every time a board breaks you should look at the conditions of the day, the landing that caused the break and the conditions sailed the few days previously. All of this can contribute to breakage.


For those of you old enough to remember sailing glass boards, do you remember how you could tell if a sailor was going for back loops? they had creases running from the centre of the board to the rail on one side only. Glass boards flex more than styro epoxy boards and so they had visible creases to show the stress from jumping. Modern boards will take the stress then give up without warning.

But to say it is the board brands problem when you land badly is just plain ignorance.
Blaming the companies for your failure to judge your landing or adjust your technique is stupid. Next time you jump off a ladder from one metre up, keep you legs straight and see how much force goes through your body via your legs.

Remember that when wave jumping there is close to80 to 100kg of weight coming down onto a thin layer of glass and foam from 2 to 5 metres multiplied by the rate of descent.

When you fishtail down the wet road and slam into the curb or sign posts, do you blame the car manufacturers for weak panels on your new car? Want light weight and fast -buy an F1, want strong - buy a tank.
Crashing your car due to bad driving technique is not a warranty problem to blame on the manufacturer. You can look for a car with the most protection by reading of proper test results but you don't make a judgement listening to the whine of a bad driver.

Unfortunatley there are no easily accessible stats on the amount of boards sold versus returns from use in certain conditions to make a thorough comparison between brands.

I wish my starboard had broken when I mistimed a back loop from barely 2 metres up. Instead I shattered my leg into pieces needing a plate and ten screws to hold it together nowadays.

its like the retailers and distributors vs the customers... I broke a F2... flat landing...

I think the question he was asking was wat is a board that is least likely to break, as he is a student and cant afford to buy a new one if he breaks it... I have the same problem, and its difficult to land perfect if you are learning new things. Some boards take the punishment better than others

Here at Auswind we certainly believe in working with our customers - not against them.

when you purchase a second hand board there is a risk in that you dont know what it has gone through via the previous owner - and the abuse can vary wildly. The good news is that you get a cheaper price - the bad news is that you take a risk when the board is out of warranty.

If the previous owner had good technique you can be getting a good deal. If not you may get 1or 2 very expensive sails out of the board.

I can relate to not being able to afford new gear as i have spent most of my sailboarding years buying 2nd hand sails and boards.

All things being equal the heavier the board the stronger its going to be - so go out and find the heaviest board you can tolerate riding.If you know that it has come from an experienced rider then thats gonna make it better value. progressing intermediate sailors tend to be doing lots of flatties and mis timing the lip and will pre punish gear alot more.

Glen's boards have held up well - in fairness they are also a little heavy (7 plus kilos - correct me if i am wrong mike)for their size - which is fine in GReen Canaria where the wind howls.

Some riders will go performance over stregth and vice versa - it personal preference.

Hope this helps.

Close, just checked my records Glenns was 6.6kg before fin and straps Gazza's closed cell 6.9kg, Lozza's the last of the styrofoam closed cell 7.0kg
I could make board's under 5.5kg but I WOULDN'T as they would never last and I put too much effort into them.
I will be looking for some more sailors to sponsor soon as 2 of mine have recently had way better offers from a larger multinational board making company.

wouldn't that be the way BJ. You encourage and nurture these no name wanna-be's until they make a name for themselves as world beating superheroes. then they leave you cold, left with nothin at the first wiff of the $$$$. Without even a thankyou maam.
You will have the last laugh

Actually these guys that got a better deal are great blokes and were very, very thankful and appreciative of my efforts and vice versa from me. They hammered my boards, looked good on them and gave me feedback which gave me a feeling of satisfaction and more confidence in my product. I realize that in life if you get offered a better deal you've got to go for it and look after yourself.

I personally believe if you buy a board that suits you, when you land jump it will take some shock is it sinks under the water a bit.

I have come to the conclusion that i would pay extra in things that break for the warrenty and that comfort.

There is nothing indestructable

Only things I haven't used yet

there's nothing car bog, silicon and an angle grinder cant fix. well maybe gaffa tape to.

poley

Huh?? Chad if you have ever jumped higher than 30 cm you would know what you are talking about! That water surface would absorb some shock, Heres any experiment you could try and let me know the results.
1st stand at the edge of a pool and fall into the water face first in a jesus on the cross type pose and note how the water felt on your face, then get on a high diving board (the highest the better for this experiment)Beatty Park have some high boards. Jump off arms spread and try and land as flat as you can face first. You might note a slight stinging sensation that would be the water not absorbing some of your fall.
Let me know how you get on, Oh also While I'm out sailing on an epic day I'd rather not have any equipment failure as I'd have to stop sailing for that day and miss out on that days sailing and the following days whilst waiting for my warranty replacement. I guess I'm just obsessed with sailing and can't stand to miss out!
Gosh I'm such a TOOL !!!!!

I personally have experienced the face sting phenomonen.

It occurs every time I get catapulted, which seems to happen with alarming frequency.

Well thanks to all who replied to the original topic, and to those who provided the humour. I've seen glenn alexander sail, and those must be some incredible boards bluejuice to stand up to 3 years of that!

Auswind, not sure if i agree with buying a board of the experienced sailors. Planning forwards and pushies must put huge stress on boards even if landed well, and the good guys in WA get their stuff cheap or free, and i know at least some of them don't treat it too well.

And i think what Chad might have been getting at is he'd prefer to buy a new board to get the warranty rather than save a few dollars on a secondhand board, given that any board can break.

Iv used bluejuice boards for years with no problem at all and i love a flat landing, its great for loosing up the joints

When boards are custom made like bluejuice boards strength is such and important factor as they do'nt have a spare hundred thousand dollars put aside in their budget for the EXPECTED warranty claims after all who cares if a few boards break over here we are such a small percent of the overseas market.

Most production boards will last years in Europe due to the lack of conditions and time spent on the water i know i sailed in Europe for years and this is where there main market is.

iv seen the punishment that Glenn Alexander, Ben Arthur and Matt Holder have given these boards before they had way better offers from larger multinational board making companies and these guys are all awesome sailors.

Most pro boards are custom boards painted to look like production boards anyway so what does that say!

Most breakages are from bad technique but isn't that most of us

If i get a great board i don't want to change it after 2 seasons due to my BAD technique

iv seen some great sailors land pretty bad isn't that how new move are perfected

So my advice from reading these post and personal experience is if your technique isn't perfect and you land a few flat landings go custom
if not then you should be sponsored and on the tour in which case theres a good chance your on a painted up custom anyway!

Still haven't fixed that hole yet mike but who cares it a water proof blank anyway

hey bluejuice
im keen to get onto one of your boards
if i work more and sail less ill get one of your boards this summer.... but some how i think im gonna work less and sail more

quote:

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Originally posted by bluejuice

Close, Lozza's the last of the styrofoam closed cell 7.0kg

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So bluejuice, how's the search for an alternative closed cell foam going???
Hope you've had some luck!
What's your opinion of the light weight Burford blank Stony's using??? (limits the shape a bit I know especially for bigger boards)

Decrepit, I'm following some leads from Bert of Sunova waiting for him to reply re waterproof light foam. I made a 85litre board out of the burford ultra ultra light blank last year 6.7kg covered it with balsa on both sidessailed it hard and loaned it out to other abusive sailors. Two of the lighter sheets of balsa on the deck crushed but the foam has held up to a lot of abuse, mine is glassed with epoxy and a heavier layup. The XPS is a lot harder to dent and snap as compared to the burford both on their own and both with a sandwhich over the top(I made up some experimental blocks and used various sandwhich materials coremat, divcell, corecell and beat them with a hammer)

quote:

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Originally posted by bluejuice

The XPS is a lot harder to dent and snap as compared to the burford both on their own and both with a sandwhich over the top(I made up some experimental blocks and used various sandwhich materials coremat, divcell, corecell and beat them with a hammer)

---

Thanks Bluejuice, sounds like you've been having fun, I just love belting things up with a hammer!!
I've tested layups with a towball connected to a drill press with bathroom scales underneath, then I pull can pull the same compresive load.
By measuring the diameter of the resulting dent I can compare relative hardness.

So how does the density of the two foams compare??
if Burford is lighter, you can make up for its weakness with more glass. 6.7 Kg sounds pretty good.
Any reason you went for balsa instead of foam???
I know you get tensile strength from it, but density can vary. Probably why some of yours crushed.
Any way if Burt can't find anything else, sounds like it could be a viable option.

Decrepit I love experimenting, Ive worked out the Burfords are similar to XPS 28kg /m3 shaped blank = 2.2kg Why balsa? It looks good!
I'm putting the same amount of glass that I would put on a normal EPS board. Standard 4oz inside 2x4 outside plus usual heel and gybe patches.

just on the blue styrofoam topic i was down in o'conner a month ago and saw a place that had windsurfer blanks in 2 diff densities (can't recal the exact figures in kg/m^3 )for roughly $160 each.
i think they had about 10 blanks of each.
if ppl want i can get the contact details off my mate who i went with to pick up an offcut for an air scoop.

BJ dont you find the balsa sucks up too much resin??? have you played with other wood types???

cheers Bertie

Bertie were the blanks the blue extruded styrofoam or just the normal white expanded polystyrene?
Balsa laid down as a long grain hardly sucks any resin but if used end grain it sucks up heaps!

quote:

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Originally posted by bluejuice

Ive worked out the Burfords are similar to XPS 28kg /m3 shaped blank = 2.2kg

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So a burford blank board of the same weight is weaker, and one of the same strength will be heavier, BUMER!!!!

So how does this compare with an open cell styrene board??? Cos that foam sure ain't strong, even if it's a bit lighter.

bluejuice they were difinitely the blue extruded polystyrene. has the word styrofoam printed on it. it is the foam yourself used b4 and is found in torquay sailboards. i know my foams

Bertie

Bertie I'm keen for an address or contact no for this place, I miss read your email and thought it was your mate that saw the foam.

Austmes enterprises
U11/5 Hines road O'Connor
93315400


they sell the blue extruded ploystyrene a.k.a. "styrofoam" windsurfer blanks.

Bertie