I have a longboard-type board ( a Bic WindSup 11’6”) and I’d like to have feedback on the SuperFreak sail ( HSM)..

I find this sail interesting because it is made of Dacron hence it is light and also because , according to the reviews I read, the battens are not full length, but 90%, ( they do not extend to the luff) and this allows a tighter leech, hence a better performance in light winds.

Actually, this is how the older longboard sails were designed and, because of this , longboards required smaller sails to get going than today’s planing gear. .

Currently, I have only two sails: an oldish 5.6 m2 Sailworks Race and an even older N.P. 6.2 m2 Garda of the 90’s.

So far they have been quite O.K. for my needs, also because, by choice and necessity, I do not normally sail with stronger winds than 15-18 knts and I mostly subplane.

Now, however, my horizons have widened, because since I bought the WindSup, my T.O.W. has significantly increased, my skills have dramatically improved and I started using the harness (after more than 10 years!).

I was therefore thinking to handle more wind power and perhaps plane more easily, either by going to a larger sail on my WindSup ( may be a 7 or an 8 m2 in the same winds where I would normally use my 6.2 ) or, at the opposite hand, to a small sail ( a 4.8 or a 5.0 m2) for stronger winds. I can’t afford both, so it has to be one or the other.

I don’t know if if I have more chances of being overpowered with a 7.0 m2 or an 8.0 m2 sail in 15-18 knts than with a 5.0 in 20 knts or more. I tend to think that a 7m2 or an 8 m2 , in addition to the 6.2 I have, would be better, because a 4.8 or a 5.0 m2, may not make much of a difference compared to the 5.6 I already have , unless the winds are REALLY strong,(but then I probably risk being overpowered and I may not go out… My weight is 85 kg.

I am in a bit of a quandary.

Any comments ?


Thanks

Francone

I have a BIC WindSUP 10 and a Kona CarbOne. I recommend you go with a larger sail. If you go with a 5.0 your days planing will only be with a fairly high wind. The large boards handle the large sails easier than on smaller boards.

Unfortunately you will find when you really get going depending how choppy it is you will want to put your feet in foot straps, which the BIC does not have. This is why I sail now mostly with the Kona CarbOne. It is a big board, around the size of your BIC, but it has foot straps, is narrower, and very fast and early to plane.My most used sail is an Ezzy 7.5 Zephyr. That sail pulls like an 8.5 but has a lot of control when the winds come up. It is amazing the wind range that sail can handle. The SuperFreak sounds like it has a big wind range too, and I would go with the 7.0 minimum and for me if I bought it now I would buy the 8.0 as it sounds like it handles well with gusts.

With the combination of a large board and a large but controllable sail, you will have a lot of time on the water and you will be able to plane most times too.One other point. You already have a 5.6 and 6.2 sail, so when the wind comes up, you have the sails to use already. The issue you have is the 6.2 is not large enough to get you planing in a lighter wind. A sail in the 7 to 8 range would be really helpful to plane in most conditions.

I have a collection of Superfreaks in the ultra light version which is made from the same material kites are made from. They are very durable and easily repaired, basically they last nearly forever. My most used sail is the 8M. The 7M is a bit of an oddball as it's a very high aspect sail, long mast, short boom then the next one down I think the 6.7M is the opposite, a low aspect sail made specifically to rig on a 430 mast.
It is said that Superfreaks rig a bit large, you will need a slightly larger sail than others. They go completely flat when luffed into the wind which can be helpful. These are the softest feeling sails available, the UL version even softer, they stretch in the gusts and even the window stretches as it's made of urethane. They can be rigged with lots or very very little DH for max power in light wind.
I suppose they fall into the love them or hate them category, for some people they are too soft, too spongy, not direct enough.
The 9M is really a longboard only sail for lighter winds as it only has 5 battens on a such a large sail.
Another option is called the Speed freak which is basically a higher performance Super freak, they make a 10M version with one removable camber. This would probably be my next sail.

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Francone said..

The Superfreak makes a very good light wind (non-planing) sail and would be perfect for a SUP board IMO. They are not suited to me for planing. I wrote a review some time ago about them. Regarding sail size for SUP board. If you are slugging around catching waves, I would recommend a small sail. The reason for this is big sails still need wind and when there is no wind, you have to wrestle with a lot more material. The smaller sail opens up the arena to learn non-planing tricks too.

Francone is not a fan of waves .. more of a longboarder - like me

Difficult to get both HSM sails and Zephyr sails in Montreal
isthmussailboards.com/2019-ezzy-zephyr.html does have the Zephyr and would probably ship
"only" $660 USD

I have the HSM SpeedFreak 8.5 and i LIKE it !! for my heavy weight I use SDM mast tho
joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2014/07/hot-sails-maui-speedfreak-85-hsm-spf-85.html

joe windsurf,

You cannot show pictures like that on this forum.

The West Aussies will be both confused and outraged at a lawn so lush and green.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Putting a large sail on a SUP means using a large fin to drive it. As 99% of SUP's have a US fin box, you will be struggling to find anything bigger that 26cm. If you do find something bigger, you will probably stress out the fin box.
If the BIC has a screw in type mast base and not a track, these are not particularly strong and will be more prone to pulling out when you crash with a bigger sail. No straps will be interesting as well.
I know there are some here who have done 30 knots on a SUP, but if you are only just getting back into the harness then hold those thoughts for now.
Also, have you considered you will probably need a new mast and boom with the bigger sail?

valid question: what is the largest sail one should/could/would put on a WindSUP ??

as far as US fins and finbox go, old longboards are US box and handle large sails
am more concerned about mast base than fin box

For sure it would not be a Speedfreak with 7 battens, 2 of which are below the boom, very freefruse trait. I want light, decent power and very very maneuver behavior.

the size will vary , a definitive answer does not exist . 6.0 is the very top for me. 4.7 is sweet.

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westozwind said..
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Putting a large sail on a SUP means using a large fin to drive it. As 99% of SUP's have a US fin box, you will be struggling to find anything bigger that 26cm. If you do find something bigger, you will probably stress out the fin box.
If the BIC has a screw in type mast base and not a track, these are not particularly strong and will be more prone to pulling out when you crash with a bigger sail. No straps will be interesting as well.
I know there are some here who have done 30 knots on a SUP, but if you are only just getting back into the harness then hold those thoughts for now.
Also, have you considered you will probably need a new mast and boom with the bigger sail?

Point taken. The USBox discussion , while having merit, is the tip of the iceberg. Quite a few WINDSUPs do have powerbox, Exocet, Kona One.
one of my favorites the AHD SEALION, has twin USBoxes. Many have a option for a TRI fin setup, which using the sidebites in larger size( not so large to destroy the box) up the overall area Of a 3 fin setup.
the more performance oriented of these WILL have straps. The OP , board is a fairly basic BIC, the US fin should be limited by common sense.

Does the Superfreak 8.0 HAVE to go on a flextop mast or can it go on a c.c. as well?

I am having a good deal on an older generation 2nd hand Superfreak 8.0 m2 , but I have a c.c. mast and I seem to recall that the older HSM sails were designed for flextops...

From what I hear, the flextop - c.c-hardtop ratings are a continuum between maximum flex and max hardness values . In between , the stiffer flextops may be in fact close to one end of the the c.c. range. May be I am o.k. with a c.c. mast. Does anybody know? Besides would this make a REAL difference?

Regarding a larger fin to fit an 8.0 m2 sail, what size would be needed? I have already replaced the original Dolphin fin of the Bic WindSup with a larger weed fin ( I believe 32 cm or so) . So far the fin box holds pretty well. I even hit a rock with no problem! I hope it is sufficient with the 8.0, size-wise .

I wouldn’t go for a larger fin like the 50 cm I once had on another board , because it may put too much stress on the Bic’s U.S. box.

Would it help with the 8.0 if I added two side thrusters to the regular weed fin ?

Regarding the point raised by westozwind , i.e. the type of mast base of the Bic ( screw in vs track), from what I can see it is a mast track, only with a much shorter slot than regular mast tracks . I don't think it is a screw in type, because I don't see any screws. It should be strong enough for an 8.0.

Thanks

Francone

I don,t know about the 8.0, but the smaller Freaks 5.8-5.5-5.3 rigged pretty well on CC masts.The twist of the sail changes a bit, but that is not a bad thing. You might lose with a CC compared to a FT mast a tiny bit of low end due less belly below, but gain a better upwind performance. I,m mainly on KS3 sails and Firelights, but for me wife we used to have a wide range of Freaks as well.

What wind conditions do you intend to use this board in Francone? I've bought myself an 11'6 BIC and reckon that you don't need anywhere near an 8m sail. Mine gets along comfortably in an 8-10 knot breeze with a 6.1m sail and if it's only 5 knots it glides along with a 7m. Anything less than that and you're better off using a paddle. I have a couple (8.5 and 10) of Speedfreaks for my short freeride board and they seem to rig nicely enough on an old, constant curve NP mast, but I do reckon an 8.5m sail is too big for a windsup.

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Paddles B'mere said..
What wind conditions do you intend to use this board in Francone? I've bought myself an 11'6 BIC and reckon that you don't need anywhere near an 8m sail. Mine gets along comfortably in an 8-10 knot breeze with a 6.1m sail and if it's only 5 knots it glides along with a 7m. Anything less than that and you're better off using a paddle. I have a couple (8.5 and 10) of Speedfreaks for my short freeride board and they seem to rig nicely enough on an old, constant curve NP mast, but I do reckon an 8.5m sail is too big for a windsup.

I usually sail on my Windsup on a local lake in light winds, not exceeding 15-18 knts. I already have an old N.P. Garda 6.2 of the 90's which I bought for a..song ( or almost). Excellent, light, Dacron sail. It pulls like an 8.0 m2 on my WindSup !

I was thinking that the Superfreak 8.0 would give me additional power in light winds and perhaps get me planing.

For the price,( $ 100 CDN) I think the Superfreak is a very good deal. I have seen it. It is in very good condition , sturdlily built, with Kevlar reinforcements and extremely well finished in the smallest details. Visually very appealing, too.

When I compare it to other sails I had before, there is no comparison. Among those I had, only the Ezzies come close in terms of craftmanship and sturdiness, but they are also rather heavy.They look designed to resists abrasion... with an orbital sander ..

The only drawback of this Superfreak is its size : an 8 m2 , with its deep shape, will be harder to uphaul, because it will collect water like a giant.. bucket, when pulling it off the water.
But then, I had a 8.5 Severne Focus before and I survived the toil of uphauling.

I think I can better handle a larger sail now because I don't fall anymore as I used to and also because I'have just started using the harness, which makes a lot of difference.

Ittiandro

when i read this, I keep wondering if you should not have kept that Mistral Competition SST that I sold you
here sailing it on local river, Rivière Milles Isles, with a SW Retro 8.0 m² sail in light winds

For me, a modern 6m is more than enough power for the big BIC in 12 knot winds.

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Beaglebuddy said..
I have a collection of Superfreaks in the ultra light version which is made from the same material kites are made from. They are very durable and easily repaired, basically they last nearly forever. My most used sail is the 8M.

I just bought a 8.0 Superfreak UL. What would you say is the wind range for this size on a Bic WindSup? I usually sail in light winds ( 12-15 knts) but what about occasional surges to about 18 knts or so? I weigh 180 lbs .

Thanks

Francone

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Francone said..

Beaglebuddy said..
I have a collection of Superfreaks in the ultra light version which is made from the same material kites are made from. They are very durable and easily repaired, basically they last nearly forever. My most used sail is the 8M.

I just bought a 8.0 Superfreak UL. What would you say is the wind range for this size on a Bic WindSup? I usually sail in light winds ( 12-15 knts) but what about occasional surges to about 18 knts or so? I weigh 180 lbs .

Thanks

Francone

Sorry not Superfreak but
I always use a 8m Cheetah on my Bic which is comfortable from 3 - 12kn and have been caught out in up to 20kn gusts
which, without footstraps was quite exciting but doable, make sure you have centerboard fully retracted and get as far back on the board as you can to try and get the board out of the water and just ride on the tail.
You'll also be mesmerized by the big roostertail coming out of the centerboard case

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ducati said..



Sorry not Superfreak but
I always use a 8m Cheetah on my Bic which is comfortable from 3 - 12kn and have been caught out in up to 20kn gusts
which, without footstraps was quite exciting but doable, make sure you have centerboard fully retracted and get as far back on the board as you can to try and get the board out of the water and just ride on the tail.
You'll also be mesmerized by the big roostertail coming out of the centerboard case

I suppose 15-16 knts is easily doable , then, with the 8.0.

Regarding getting as far back as possible, there is a limit, though, because on the Bic, the mast track is much shorter than on regular boards and even if you set the the rig at the back end of the track, you cannot step all the way back to the tail area when you hold the boom : there are still 2 or 3 feet left to get near the fin.

Did you ever plane on the Bic WindSup? Just curious. Planing is not my priority, neither the WindSup's purpose, I suppose, but it would be nice if I could plane on it. I bought it mainly as a light winds board, to subplane when winds are not strong enough for planing, which is the prevailing condition here.
I traded a full planing capability for more stability and more T.O.W. because with shortboards I was grounded half of the time.

Francone

I assure you you'll definitely be planing but because of the rocker and drag it's a slow plane
Even at 8-10kn windspeed the board will be doing about 15kn boatspeed and it definitely rises up and starts skimming on top of the water
Weight distribution is important tho make sure you DON'T sink the windward rail it like putting the brakes on,
Try lifting the windward rail by putting your backfoot on the leeward side while pushing with your front foot against the centerboard handle This is also a great way to go to windward with the centerboard down, like railing a raceboard

Yep, they plane exactly like Ducati says, you almost don't even notice it happening as it goes from a fast glide to the plane. Like has been said, don't catch the windward rail, I actually just try to keep it all sitting level instead of tipping it the other way. Kick up the centreboard and off it will go. You guys are sailing your windsups very powered up compared to me though, I've been using a 7m for 0-8kn and a 6.1 for 8-14kn. Anything around 15kn and over I just use my Magic Ride because that's not why I bought a windsup, I weigh 99kg.