Any advice/experience would be appreciated............

I am a 86kg on a 90 litre wave board looking for a reasonably powerful large sized wave sail. I manily sail in cross-on shore conditions.

My current options are:

the 2009 NP Alpha 5.8m,
a 2009 5.7m or 6.1m NP Firefly, or
possibly a 2008 5.9m North Sails Duke.

From what I've read / researched so far I am leaning towards the Alpha. I have a 6.4 Duke and am happy with it on a larger FSW board for trying freestyle or in small waves but it doesn't look as robust as other wave sails for larger waves/wipeouts.

Fire away!

i rekon they are all awesome sails.
I love my mates 5.9 duke (07??) so much grunt on a 102 FSW, always planing.
Firefly is prolly the lightest in the hands and shortest boom length. (check that though)
Alpha has similar grunt to the duke.
They will all be about the same strength, it just depends on UV exposure coz they all have similar amounts of monofilm.

What mast have ya got to rig the sail on?? that might narrow down which sail will suit ya best for the minimum expenditure.

thanks,

I have a 430cm simmer skinny mast which I think can be used on all of the options. Still deciding........

why not get the simmer icon?

I went from the duke to the simmer icon and its definately a much more durable sail, and you don't lose out at all performance wise, its definately got a better wind range.

I also weigh 86kg and last year I had the 2009 Firefly 6.1 and Alpha 5.4.

I reckon the 5.8 Alpha or 6.1 Firefly would both be awesome. It really depends what it is you're going use the sails for. They'll both work great in waves or bump & Jump / flatwater but if you're going to be in waves more then I'd say the Alpha because it's built a bit more tough with thicker monofilm than the firefly but if it's more bump & jump or flat water freestyle then go the firefly because it's lighter. Both the sails will have heaps of range and should get you going no worries in on shore conditions.

I must say though that the 5.4 Alpha was probably my favourite sail last year so I reckon go the Alpha!

i cant find the bend curve stats for a simmer mast here: www.peterman.dk/masts-all-imcs01.htm

so i cant tell which would suit better.

As for the different mono thickness in the Alpha and firefly i call BULLS!!T.
They are the same.

Go the Alpha, Heaps of grunt, No need to pump, Super tuff...A mans sail.

I have the 09 5.8, it's a perfect match with my 95L, you'll love it.

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Bertie said...



As for the different mono thickness in the Alpha and firefly i call BULLS!!T.
They are the same.

Call it however you like Bertie - I had both sails and these were the differences I noticed. I agree both sails would be great but the Alpha is heavier than the Firefly - both in weight and feel.

I have been lucky enough to use all 3.
At your weight and size I would go the Alpha.
Bit more grunt than the Firefly and a lot more well balanced than the Duke.

Having tested all 3 and a few other manufactures I settled on the Alphas.
Horses for courses, but at 194cm and 94kg the Alpha fits the bill and can take a battering.
* I've been ragged dolled into, onto and over it enough times to know

Thanks for the input,

I am getting closer to a decision. I was going to use the sail with a 2008 430cm skinny mast. I am hoping the neil pryde sails will rig fine on it. Its difficult to know whether the benefits of matching sails with the same manufacturer's mast is critical, or whether it is more marketing when they say it makes a significant difference to sail performance?

I'm sure if I rigged it on an aluminium tube it would have **** performance but maybe a hacker like me may never notice as long as its mounted on a relatively modern skinny wave mast?

I have used a North Viper mast with a host of Pryde sails to great effect.
The North 100% carbon 430 viper is pretty stiff and responds well to having a fair bit of weight hanging off it
Also works an absolute treat in the Naish range of waves sails - Force in particular.

Wannagybe where in NSW are you based ?
Happy for you to take my kit for a blast to get a sense of how they actually perform

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Bertie said...

I just checked the spare parts guide on the NP site.
Both have the sail thickness mono in the same panels.
http://www.neilpryde.com/download/pdf/en/rigs10/hires/spare_parts_all_10.pdf
scroll through and have a look.
6Mil below the boom, 5Mil above.

Well done Bertie - but we're talking 2009 not 2010 and it's a possibility that it's all the extra x-ply in the Alpha vs thin monofilm around the head, luff and leech in the firefly that results in the difference in weight, strength and feel (of the 2009 sails).

Either way my point was that the Alpha is a bit more tough but as a result slightly heavier than the Firefly but both are awesome for their purpose!

I was agreeing with your original post!

Not sure what you're trying to prove by picking on semantics!

yer you kinda right about the 09. I'd forgotten how much mono the firefly had.
I was picking up on your statement about the mono thickness differing.

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Alpha because it's built a bit more tough with thicker monofilm

http://usa.neilpryde.com/download/pdf/en/rigs09/firefly.pdf
usa.neilpryde.com/download/pdf/en/rigs09/alpha.pdf
make up your own mind.

I have a 2010 5.7 firefly, maybe i get defensive about it but me and a lot of other people rekon they are the ducks nuts.
The 2010 firefly actually has less mono than the alpha!
So which of the 2010 sails in tougher??

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Bertie said...

yer you kinda right about the 09. I'd forgotten how much mono the firefly had.
I was picking up on your statement about the mono thickness differing.

Alpha because it's built a bit more tough with thicker monofilm

http://usa.neilpryde.com/download/pdf/en/rigs09/firefly.pdf
usa.neilpryde.com/download/pdf/en/rigs09/alpha.pdf
make up your own mind.

I have a 2010 5.7 firefly, maybe i get defensive about it but me and a lot of other people rekon they are the ducks nuts.
The 2010 firefly actually has less mono than the alpha!
So which of the 2010 sails in tougher??

Hey Bertie - sounds like we're on the same page then (and check the difference in monofilm thinkness on the big panel between the 2nd and third battens)

I totally agree about the 2010 Firefly - sick sails! I have a 5.3 and 6.1 and this year they've got to be tougher than the Alpha given there's heaps more x-ply.

If the discussion was about 2010 sails I'd definitely say go the Firefly - hands down!... but for 2009 I'd say go the Alpha - unless maybe it was really flat water or freestyle that it was going to be used for.

You Firefly fans are using NP masts I assume.
I think Simmer is in the 12% bend school. I could be wrong.

I expect a Firefly or an Alpha would lose a bit of power on a 12% bend mast and be less free in the upper leach.

I'd be more inclined to go for the Duke.

Thanks for the offer Windwarrior,

I live in Newcastle, so will keep an eye out for you. Not many 194 cm guys around so I'm sure I'll spot you. Keep you eye out for a short bloke at only 193cm. that's me.

Do you also break loads of kit being XL sized? I generally break two booms per year, tear a couple of sails, the odd UJ, have sheared footstrap bolts, and other accessories generally end up by the way side each year too. Perhaps that's just my technique though.

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Wannagybe said...

Thanks for the offer Windwarrior,

I live in Newcastle, so will keep an eye out for you. Not many 194 cm guys around so I'm sure I'll spot you. Keep you eye out for a short bloke at only 193cm. that's me.

Do you also break loads of kit being XL sized? I generally break two booms per year, tear a couple of sails, the odd UJ, have sheared footstrap bolts, and other accessories generally end up by the way side each year too. Perhaps that's just my technique though.

Well, thought I'd chime in... I think you might looking for a while if you are looking for 194cm Kevo.... I am 187cm... last I checked and I believe I am actually a like bit taller then Kevo... so not sure how he measures. Perhaps with a builders tape that's missing a few cms ;-)

But seriously, in regards to being tall and ahm... a bit heavier: I used to break 2 to 4 booms a season. Until I discovered Chinook Aluminium Booms... haven't killed a single boom since. I eventually migrated to Neil Pryde carbon booms. While carbon booms tend to be crazy expensive I think they are truly worth their money. You get all the benefits of a solid Alu boom such as the Chinooks without having to deal with corrosion.

RE ripping foot straps out of boards... I used to do that to too (in addition to putting big soft spots and dents into them). I found thought that a couple of year ago the quality of boards on the market really matured.

RE ripping sails, I haven't had that issue with the Prydes. Can't speak for other brands but from people I know are reporting Ezzy and Gun Sails ain't that bad either.

I haven't had nearly as many problems with boards as I used to. Also, to avoid ripping foot straps out of boards make you always use the screws that where supplied with the board. It also helps to fasten the screws from time to time. I find they have a tendency to come loose after a while.

OK, I've heard that before about the carbon booms being more resistant to breakage. I'll keep my eye out for one on special. I'll let you know if I find its weak point.

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stehsegler said...

Well, thought I'd chime in... I think you might looking for a while if you are looking for 194cm Kevo.... I am 187cm... last I checked and I believe I am actually a like bit taller then Kevo... so not sure how he measures. Perhaps with a builders tape that's missing a few cms ;-)

One word mate... AFRO

As for being taller than me.. I think you might be trapped into the optical illusion that width = height

Back on topic, yep have broken a heap of kit in my time... from fins all the way up to the bit that sits inside the top of the mast (and EVERYTHING in between)

For strength and durability where booms are concerned carbon is the Go.
Granted initial outlay is expensive but they last. If for whatever reason you break one inside a reasonable period you should be covered under warranty. (One of the benefits or more expensive initial cost)
In my opinion you get what you pay for.

hi have used all 3 in last 6 months...they are all great. I found the alpha and duke really easy and forgiving to sail but the firefly needs to be sailed hence I prefer the Firefly.