Is there any science behind the performance gains that equipment manufacturers apparently get from their kit year after year.

North this year claim "30%" improvement in acceleration for their 2016 WARP: really? suddenly North riders will dominate the PWA slalom because if they are getting that level of performance increase no one will touch them.... or maybe all manufacturers have miraculously found 30% performance gains - so suddenly speed records will tumble as windsurfers go over 60kts? I don't think so

How have North measured this improved acceleration - using properly calibrated equipment to measure the improvements or based on the gut feel of their test team?

Boards are no better - claims that slalom boards 10% faster than last year - let's just see how much slalom boards have increased in speed. In 1987 the Tiga Slalom 260 was the first production board to go over 30kts over a 500m course - today top slalom boards will go about 42kts over 500m - the improvement is just 1.75% year over year - this is the combined performance increase of board, sail and fin. If boards got 10% faster year on year, we would now be sailing boards at over 180kts. I am not even sure that today's slalom boards are faster than the F2 Sputnik 270 or Fanatic Jag from 1994 - easier to sail and better to gybe, but no faster.

One of the UK's top sailors commented that his new boards always feel more responsive and crisper than last year's boards, but speculated that this was probably due to a year of hard sailing reducing the stiffness of his boards.

Very well said, great comment, the only thing that gets higher is the price

Interesting stuff.

It's easy agree with your words but, still, remain to point out what does "faster" mean.

Both fins, masts, sails, boards, booms have evolved/improved as shapes,design,tech. In my opinion if they're not as "faster" as they claim for sure they're way easier (if you know how to choose and tune your new stuff), to the point that in the end you should be more comfy,confident,relaxed that it results in better overall speed.
But, then again, what's "overall speed" for any of us?
Speed around a course racing or in drag racing with buddies or free sailing alone?
I think there's a huge difference between above situations as they require very different approaches,skills,stuff .
I like to think brands test racing stuff "speed" in racing situations. It doesn't mean the gain speed (if any) will be noticeable for everybody as not everybody pushes stuff to those limits. E.G. if you sail alone you can easily go 1mq less than racing situation. Then you ask yourself why those crazy dogs carry such tractor sails... ...as well as sometime you see some racer enjoying free cam sails for blasting around with big smiled face.

I agree, many of us are marketing driven and reading sail X or fin Y will give us 0,5 kts raise deeply excites ourselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just mess up things. But, have you ever heard from new customer his new stuff is slower than earlier??!!

I,and some friend of mine, think that brands work on feelings more than designs. It could be the reason performance gains are real or not according the therms you start from to think at it.



I doubt but would be great if someone involved in R&D and/or marketing departements would get in this thread.

W100, I actually do race to a reasonable standard, train with a PWA Slalom sailor, and typically use a similar size sail to the top racers (although I probably change down slightly earlier). No matter what kit I am on, I am always around 5-7% slower then the Pro-Sailors

What I have learned is that there is no one size fits approach. I typically change my sails every 2 or 3 seasons and I change 1 or 2 boards per year; this is how I rank my sail quivers:

1. 2015 GA Vapor
2. 2010 North WARP F2010
3. 2013 North WARP F2013
4. 2008 North WARP F2008

I actually felt that the North WARP F2013 was a step backwards from the F2010
On the other hand, the GA Vapor is a significant step forward. Interestingly both the North WARP 2010 and GA Vapor have shorter boom, shorter luff and use softer masts than the F2013 and F2008 WARPs - so maybe my weight, height and sailing style suits certain types of sail better.

www.peterman.dk/windsurf-north-warp-1000.html

This is an interesting blog, following the progression of North WARPS over 6 seasons. It contains the following quote

"Compared to the Warp F2012 and F2013, which were both fine performance-wise, our F2014 7.8 was a disaster, and after a few sessions on the water we gave it up"

If I consider my slalom boards, I have ranked them
1. 2015 Starboard Isonic 107
2. 2010 Mistral Slalom 123
3. 2009 Starboard Isonic 101
4=. 2014 Starboard Isonic 90
4=. 2012 Starboard Isonic 87
6. 2009 Fanatic Falcon 105
7. 2007 JP slalom 69
8. 2012 Starboard Isonic 137
9. 2013 Starboard Isonic 110
10. 2007 Fanatic Falcon 90

My top 3 boards are all boards that just felt right. The Mistral 123 was a hugely under rated board, it was better in almost every way than the Isonic 110 that replaced it

Starboard will have you believe that their latest Carbon Ultra Core Construction is revolutionary, however, in the 1990's Mistral, F2 and Fanatic etc produced boards using aerospace technology that was massively more sophisticated than today's boards - I still have a Mistral Engergizer XR in the garage, it is so light and completely "ding" free despite being knocked about and being very well used.

I've been saying this for years. From around 2012 till present sails are not any faster--period.

From 2008 to 2012 ---there was improvement in speed that could be noticed.

The Severne Reflex One is not a patch on the R2 or R3 for stability or speed.

But I'm far from convinced the R7 is any faster than the R2 or R3.

Might be lighter with better cam rotation etc-- but not faster.

Every year I race against the same sailors who 'upgrade' their sails to a new model.

They sail at exactly the same speed.

As I know its all BS hype, I save my money and stick to relatively old race sails.

Would like to see sailmakers experiment with 10 batten sails---- for me extra battens translate into extra stability.

When the wind picks up is when you notice it!

The 2012 wood Sonic is the fastest board ever made in strong,choppy conditions.

Not convinced Starboard can make a better board in those conditions.

The 2015 107 carbon is my second favourite. Super fast in light conditions and fast in strong conditions.

More battens!....you need Maui Sails, more battens than you can poke a stick at, even in the small sizes.

I think the new North Warps are a pretty big step up actually.

I wouldn't put a percentage on it, but they are quite different from the previous years'. The booms are longer, and each size rigs on a shorter, softer mast. They are deeper, the power is lower down and they seem to have more power. As far as I can tell they are no less controllable at the top end.

I absolutely love them!

One of the many sales tricks/tips marketing folks used is to create "wants". If you tell someone with lots of loose change floating around under his sofa that he can be an instant hero at the local beach by simply upgrading to a new set of gear, some just might fall for it.

I remember Neil Pryde spruiked a sail named "Warp Speed". One of my mates rushed to buy one. Contrary to what the sales pitch said, he didn't go any faster. He didn't go faster because (1). He was way too fat, and (2). He didn't have the techniques.

Recently, a European arrived with a brand new board and sails. The board was really wide from head to toe. It was meant to be a slalom board. Yes, he did go fast in moderate winds. However, as soon as the wind rose above 17-20 knots, a F2 Sputnik zipped past him easily. Of course, an F2 Sputnik is a bastard of a board to gybe unless you have the skill to do it. The newer boards probably gybe much easier.

Personally, I believe it is all about how you view your sport. If you just want to blast around, just about any old gear will suffice. However, if you want to be the leader of the pack, in terms of having the best and latest, and possibly, but not guaranteed, the fastest on water, then listen to the marketing mobs.

Select to expand quote

AUS1111 said..
I think the new North Warps are a pretty big step up actually.

I wouldn't put a percentage on it, but they are quite different from the previous years'. The booms are longer, and each size rigs on a shorter, softer mast. They are deeper, the power is lower down and they seem to have more power. As far as I can tell they are no less controllable at the top end.

I absolutely love them!

This is similar to the experience I had switching from North WARPS to 2015 GA Vapor this year - the GA has shorter boom, shorter and softer mast, deeper draft and much more area below the boom. As a result I find that they are more powerful and the power is lower in the sail..... for me I much prefer this feel, however, last year's North riders were competitive against the GA sailors. I would therefore argue that the GA and North designers made different trade offs when it came to design last year - but the end results were roughly equal, this year North seem to have made similar trade-offs to GA and the North sails therefore feel different - It doesn't actually mean that they are better. I prefer the feel of last year's GA, AUS1111 prefers the feel of the new WARP, other people may well prefer the feeling of last year's WARP.

Once a sailor gets to a certain level they become very tuned into their kit and can sense very small differences. Manufacturers make small changes to balance top end speed and low down power, stability against maneuverability etc, I am not really sure that they are improving their sails, just tweaking them ever so slightly, so it does annoy me when I see claims of 30% more acceleration, it just doesn't seem credible

I agree with Petermac's comments up to a point. Any North WARP from 2010 on would blow away an F2008 WARP, no question. However, I almost forgot that before the North I had a 7.2m Neil Pryde RS Slalom (I think the first one with a wide luff, 2006?), that was an excellent sail. I suspect that it wasn't quite as stable as modern slalom sails when maxed out, but I do remember that it was fast and powerful and rotated beautifully - would be interesting to try one today to see how it compares with my GA sails