I have got back into windsurfing over last few months (after a ten year break) and have been sailing with a GPS.
I have found that I am able to get on the plane not much after the boys riding the new 120L wider boards and similar size sails but they are 30kg lighter and the top speeds are not a lot different. I am getting a few newer sails which should give me a speed increase as the sail I have are 15-17 years old. The board I have been riding is a Bic Vivace 299 149L which I have had it up to 32 knots and I am wondering what I would gain by upgrading to a newer board?

Nice board l still have a 10 year old board the thing we gain on older boards are smaller widths good for speed but slower to get planing.they don't make em how they use to.getting back to your question new boards are gr8 but shop around & read the reviews. Happy sailing.

Hi Matt.

I have a newish JP 114 Slalom (70cm wide) and a 1996 Extreme Slalom 105 (53cm wide). These are my two slalom boards. Sometimes I get the Naish 8'9" Freeride out when it's real choppy.

Main difference between new and old I find is the newer board is easier to gybe and quicker to plane. Not so great in chop. Older board is slower to plane and much more difficult to gybe, but when it gets gong it is just as quick. Good in chop being narrow.

Done over 30 knots on the JP, but so far only had the extreme up to 27+ knots even though a bit underpowered. Only had GPS since Xmas 2012.

Your speeds are great at the moment so I reckon just get a newer sail or two and worry about the board(s) later. Your Bic is a good board.

Cheers Wayno.

Thanks Gavnend and Wayne.
No need to up grade this board for a while any suggestions on a bump and jump board that will float me as I am over 100kg? I like the look of the 125l hawk.

Hey Matt, I can perhaps offer a bit of insight into the current fanatic quiver. I recently purchased a 2013 Ray which is supposed to be a free race board but I found it to be very slalom board in nature. This is understandable as they are the slalom shape with just a cheaper and heavier construction. Funny that lol That's pretty much how the ray sails, like a slalom board with a bit of extra weight. Don't get me wrong however, the Ray is a very, very exciting board to ride and it jumps really well. It feels really solid underfoot when you land it I have no qualms about jumping this beastie. There is also the option of putting the foot straps in the inboard positions but I don't know if that's going to work very well with a ray unless you are a pretty big guy. The ray is a high performance board and I have no doubt that I will set a new GPS PB on it as soon as I get the wind.

The fact that you did 32 knots on THAT board, wow man just wow. You will bloody smoke on a hawk you don't need slalom gear lol.

The older slalom oriented BIC are quite fast boards. What you will notice with the newer boards is a broader range of use and easier.

If youre going to keep the BIC then I would be looking at a smaller board, 100-110l . The newer boards are more stable for slogging due to width. I have a 90 l slalom board which is fine for my 92kg as long as there is some wind to keep it moving.

Gidday Matt,
Next time we get some wind at Canton have a go on my 13' Falcon 112. Its a sweet ride and would be a logical step down from your mother ship.
Cheers,
Larko.

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ka43 said..

Gidday Matt,
Next time we get some wind at Canton have a go on my 13' Falcon 112. Its a sweet ride and would be a logical step down from your mother ship.
Cheers,
Larko.

Thanks Larko!

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Cluffy said..


Hey Matt, I can perhaps offer a bit of insight into the current fanatic quiver. I recently purchased a 2013 Ray which is supposed to be a free race board but I found it to be very slalom board in nature. This is understandable as they are the slalom shape with just a cheaper and heavier construction. Funny that lol That's pretty much how the ray sails, like a slalom board with a bit of extra weight. Don't get me wrong however, the Ray is a very, very exciting board to ride and it jumps really well. It feels really solid underfoot when you land it I have no qualms about jumping this beastie. There is also the option of putting the foot straps in the inboard positions but I don't know if that's going to work very well with a ray unless you are a pretty big guy. The ray is a high performance board and I have no doubt that I will set a new GPS PB on it as soon as I get the wind.

The fact that you did 32 knots on THAT board, wow man just wow. You will bloody smoke on a hawk you don't need slalom gear lol.

Thanks for the great info Cluffy. I gather that you have been sailing for a while and I am interested what the differences that you have found between new wide and old skinny boards. Your reviews they are very well done! New sails are on the way I hope that this will increase my speed on the old girl! Hope to see you on the water soon.
Matt

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Waiting4wind said..

The older slalom oriented BIC are quite fast boards. What you will notice with the newer boards is a broader range of use and easier.

If youre going to keep the BIC then I would be looking at a smaller board, 100-110l . The newer boards are more stable for slogging due to width. I have a 90 l slalom board which is fine for my 92kg as long as there is some wind to keep it moving.

Thanks for the info Waiting4wind.
Not sure I want to go back to a board that does not float me!
That's why I was looking at about 125L board.
Matt

Matt I would have to agree with the guys about the difference between old and new boards. One thing that struck me about my new boards was the acceleration, especially the Slalom IX 68. It jumps out of the blocks like a greyhound it's bloody awesome fun. The cut off noses and flatter rockers also tend to catch less air under the board which makes them a little more... predictable I guess.

The biggest difference for me has been the improvement in sails. Wind range, speed and control are way beyond my old stuff.

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MattDowse said..

Waiting4wind said..

The older slalom oriented BIC are quite fast boards. What you will notice with the newer boards is a broader range of use and easier.

If youre going to keep the BIC then I would be looking at a smaller board, 100-110l . The newer boards are more stable for slogging due to width. I have a 90 l slalom board which is fine for my 92kg as long as there is some wind to keep it moving.

Thanks for the info Waiting4wind.
Not sure I want to go back to a board that does not float me!
That's why I was looking at about 125L board.
Matt

If you need that size then I'd be looking at a freeride or free race board, as a slalom board of that size will be best matched to an 8 to 8.7 m sail. The tail would be a bit to powerful for anything anything less than 6.7m.

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Cluffy said..

Matt I would have to agree with the guys about the difference between old and new boards. One thing that struck me about my new boards was the acceleration, especially the Slalom IX 68. It jumps out of the blocks like a greyhound it's bloody awesome fun. The cut off noses and flatter rockers also tend to catch less air under the board which makes them a little more... predictable I guess.

The biggest difference for me has been the improvement in sails. Wind range, speed and control are way beyond my old stuff.

Thanks Cluffy
I have started to upgrade sails, a 2010 model 6.3m has turned up and a 8.6mtr is on the way! Can't wait to try new sails.
Just need about a 7mtr and 7.8mtr.
Matt

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Waiting4wind said..

MattDowse said..

Waiting4wind said..

The older slalom oriented BIC are quite fast boards. What you will notice with the newer boards is a broader range of use and easier.

If youre going to keep the BIC then I would be looking at a smaller board, 100-110l . The newer boards are more stable for slogging due to width. I have a 90 l slalom board which is fine for my 92kg as long as there is some wind to keep it moving.

Thanks for the info Waiting4wind.
Not sure I want to go back to a board that does not float me!
That's why I was looking at about 125L board.
Matt

If you need that size then I'd be looking at a freeride or free race board, as a slalom board of that size will be best matched to an 8 to 8.7 m sail. The tail would be a bit to powerful for anything anything less than 6.7m.

Thanks Waiting4wind
The Hawk is a free race board isn't it? What do you suggest?
Matt

Yes the Hawk is a great choice, it's fast and quite maneuverable.

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MattDowse said..
Thanks Cluffy
I have started to upgrade sails, a 2010 model 6.3m has turned up and a 8.6mtr is on the way! Can't wait to try new sails.
Just need about a 7mtr and 7.8mtr.
Matt

Hi Matt, Looking at your existing sails, I think a 7.8 might not be needed. 6.3, 7.3, 8.6 is quite a nice range.

Just a bit of a update on the old Mothership!
I am still sailing her is light breezes 14-18knots and I clocked a 2 sec peak of 34knots and I have done a alpha of 23.7 with a 8.6m sail.
She keeps on surprising me!

Hi Matt,

Yeah you keep on amazing us all with your top speeds on the "mothership". Well done. Is there no limit on this board?

Bruce H was on his old SeaTrend 276 on Sunday and he also did a PB so it just goes to show you that there are some older boards that still can cut it with the newest models. I reckon the post mid '90's boards are still pretty good, but the models before this period had mast tracks and foot straps much further forward on the boards (usually) which gave them a different feel. I have recently put a saw through a 1992 John Hall epoxy slalom that cost me $1,000 (in 1992) and thrown it in a dumper bin at work. It was not worth saving or keeping.

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MattDowse said..

Thanks Gavnend and Wayne.
No need to up grade this board for a while any suggestions on a bump and jump board that will float me as I am over 100kg? I like the look of the 125l hawk.

matt those old boards are designed for the older cut sails e,g less mast curve and the track further forward , you will find the boom can be too high in the lulls and too short powered up in the back straps and a pain to beach start
if your looking for a replacement you need to look at the conditions your sailing , if your sailing chop you will need a wider tail and longer fin , if your sailing flat water you will need a narrower tail and shorter fin , have a look at the specks on some of the boards avalible , looking at the volume doesn't tell you a great deal,
im 78kgs and my biggest board is a ca55 sl, it has a much narrower tail than my exocet rs 90
ps just read your post on the mothership in light winds and congrats on the numbers , how does it feel fully powerd up in chop, the newer sails can be temperamental as far as mast track placement goes

Hi Matt,

The old girls have some good points. When I got back into it after a long break I used a BIC Techno 125. It was a great board and I will never forget the first time in both straps.

In WA I've seen one very good sailor bring out older gear when it gets very windy and choppy. He reckons the extra weight and the narrower, longer outline are an asset... and he smokes on that gear.

For me, I loved the old Starboard Sonic 100, amazingly versatile board, sail with a 7.8m down all on a Goldwing 32. Sweet!

The newer gear is quite different. I reckon overall the average speed is higher - you get onto the plane faster, you come out of gybes faster, you sail upwind faster, you sail through lulls better. They also ride flat, if you have MFP it's rare they get flighty. I think that some riders are also realizing that a bit of width is actually better in chop as you can float over the top of it - kind of counter intuitive.

This year my smallest slalom is 100L but it's 64.5cm wide vs the Sonic 100 which was 58cm wide. It gets me on small gear earlier and more often.

End of the day a good sailor like yourself will find fun with any gear.

Cheers, Patrick

Thanks Wayne and congrats on the PB,s on Sunday!!!
Keef I have brought some newer smaller boards and have found that I am sailing with the mast tracks forward of centre on these and on the mothership as far back as I can go! She seems to work best with my Loft 8.6m, and the wind range of the new sails are awesome! 3 sails seems to cover all conditions.
Thanks Patrick, She seems to be easier to handle in the chop than the wider boards, due to the long rail length it always seems to feel like you have a bigger fin.

I agree with paddymac,newer boards win hands down. A possible exception being in really,really windy conditions say 30 knots plus,the older narrower tail boards it is much easier sailing off the wind. In these conditions I find sailing upwind safer than reaching! My old small AB slalom board with a super narrow tail I can smoke off the wind in 30 knots,well nearly,but with my wider tailed i87 I will be lucky to maintain control sailing square to the wind. Also noticed small older style boards work far better with a softish raked back G10 fin rather than carbon which tends not to dump the power in gusts as well.

I'm in the same boat (or should that read on the same windsurfer) - just about to return to windsurfing after a break of about 6 years.

The sails look different, the boards are shorter and wider still. I still have all my gear but some of it is 8 or 9 years old.

I began windsurfing 30 years ago, and have seen the design changes come and go, from the old Windsurfer with loose daggerboard, through first "short boards" that were 295 and the first RAF sails, then the cambered generation came in. Some wave sailing and several years of slalom racing on the WA circuit on 270 WindTechs, and raced a Formula board for a season. Just before I stopped sailing, sails and boards had changed so much over a period of about 5 years, from long and slim to short and fat.

I have a Carve 99 and Carve 131. There is a 2008 Severne Elements 7.5 and a couple of Sailworks 6.5 and 8.5 (both around 2006 models) .... I was chatting to someone who said that no one used a 490 mast anymore! He laughed.

I wonder how the Carves compare to the current crop of freeride boards? And would anyone like to suggest a sail (or two) below the 7.5 - just what range can I expect at 80 kg for blasting on flat water?

Excited to be back.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek
I think that your boards will be fine I have a few older and newer boards now! Bic is 1998 model and it is competing with the newer models OK. The new wider boards do get on the plan quicker but do not handle the chop as well as the longer skinnier boards, top speeds do not seem to be much different maybe the skinnier boards have the edge. I enjoy riding both!!!
Sails have changed a lot from my old sails, the new sails have a awesome wind range! I only have 3 sails now 8.6, 7.3 & 6.3m I have not needed anything else! And I still use a 490 mast on my 8.6m sail.
I would not worry too much about upgrading just go out and enjoy sailing but if you do decide to upgrade I would look at sails first!

Thanks Matt.

Regards from Perth

Derek