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Great R&D, good build, questionable materials and duribilty.

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LeeD said..
Great R&D, good build, questionable materials and duribilty.

all the materials in most sail brands look pretty much identical to me .. probably all brands just use the same few suppliers.

from 2020, NP has new materials in the Pro models fwiw

Look at NP durability thru the years.
My 1st quiver...1983...thru to individual sails and working at NP dealerships for 20 odd years.
More noticeable since 2005.

Hype is just hype.
Learn from history, or you will repeat mistakes.
I've possibly owned more than 40 NP sails.

So you think they're not durable and you had 40 of them
Learn from history?

Perhaps be a little clearer if bagging out particular brands. Whats ya reasoning...?

I had no issue with their durability from 2005 - 2015 models I had. Geez I even had a set of Koster's flogged ones and still had no durability issues for two or three seasons on them.

There's nothing not to love about NP sails. If you're a devotee you just want to update every few years just for the colour and graphics changes. Do that and you don't give a **** about durability I could never own an Ezzy

Everyone has his own prefences. I have owned some NP sails back in the day and I had no issues. Back in the day you either have a NP sail or you have crap. But things have changed A friend of mine who is working and repairing tons of various sails and kites (windurfing kite schools) on a greek island told me that NP was good up until 2012. After that- very well designed but disposable...There are brands that offer far better wave sails than NP. Imho especially for wave sails apart from everything else you need durability. Durability means safety. Who cares if a sails has spiderfibre x plyweb@#?1 and weighs nothing but goes to pieces after wave bashing in the critical zone....

Been buying quivers every season since 1983. Some seasons, 2 complete quivers because of too many hours and was advised such by the sponsors.
NP's always had leading edge R&D, often copied by other manufacturers by late summer. This occurs because proto's [those made in Maui or Europe] come out a year or more early, then protos from the Chinese factory come out in late summer for final testing and for the trade shows. The production sails usually have early winter delivery.
Everyone in the industry knows this.....unless your head is in the sand, or you are actually NOTin the loop.

Not to bag on Mark, who does know a lot of stuff, but......
Everyone knows that pros get several quivers of sails each year. Not including pre production prototypes, they usually get their initial set of custom proto's, then 1st edition factory production, then mid season factory final product runs.
So the sails you get from a sponsored pro can be in almost any condition made proto or made by the Chinese factory.
Even lowly shop employees with horrid sailing skills can get lucky and fall close to those perks.

As to "WHY" so many NP's?
Did I mentioned NP's had the best R&D?
Sometimes, a sailor falls out of favor with their sail sponsor, or get better offers from other sail companies. Or, their affiliated shop decides to push another sail line. This causes a change of sail quiver company.
But, during the season, he can still order and receive sails from his previous company during the production season if they are in stock and the rider still has connections.

Can you explain exactly which material in the sail and how it fails?

The monofilm? crossply monofilm? batten? luff material? protection material at mast base? batten cam? etc etc ... I am not sure which item you are talking about.

Fringe from rubbing.
For years the accuracy of stitching was suspect at best.
Lot's of premature mono failures.
Lot's of stitching unravelling.

All I have to say is my 2020 Combats have been through absolute hell are are still strong as ever.


my 4.0 Pro for example has been separated from my board (crappy old MK extensions!!) sucked down to the bottom of one of the heaviest windsurf spots in South Africa, pummelled for several waves and not broken. Sometimes separated, sometimes not, the sail has been washed up on sharp rocks and hit by logo-mast high waves for at least 15 minutes. No damage beyond a couple of pockmarks in the luff tube and lots of cosmetic scratches to the window.

It's also experienced all the usual crashes, various other rock related incidents and more. Pryde had a serious construction problem back in the mid 2000s, that I know. Now they're strong as anything except maybe ezzys and simmers.

My 2019 3.3 also flipped across the rocks at Pozo several times in 50+knots and should have been broken. The board had some serious dings, the sail was a bit scuffed but completely intact and unaffected.

Wow...they lasted one season!

^^^ run over big sharp rocks for 15min with no damage. Relevant.

My Prydes with up to around 5 seasons on them had NONE of the issues you describe Lee.
BTW my idea of a season then was around 100 sessions in 4mths and sails left in blistering UV that you couldn't imagine. Then a bit of winter sailing with a ****eload of crashes as its always 25-40kn and messy.
I always sail overpowered.

I think you have an agenda here. You have had NP for decades then suddenly you reckon they fall to bits. After you no longer work at the dealership anymore. Nobody else seems to have these issues....... I'm sus.

I'd be happy if LeeD went back to the other forums overseas and left us alone.
I'm sick of the posts with no substance in every thread!

You guys just love to own the forum for yourselves, don't you?
Nobody else has valid thoughts, you know everything.
As stated by OTHERS.....NP has had problems!
Not just me and my NP's.
I keep buying them because...as I mentioned....they have good R&D.

Substance.
What can I know?
Worked at various shops for 23+ years.
Always sailed over 90 days a year from 1984 to present with 1995 devoted to river kayaking.
Had NP sponsorship 3 separate times, never got denied sails from them.
My shop owners did force me off Pryde 3 times.
Sponsored by other sail companies when not with NP.
Sail sponsorships did end in 2004, but dude, I was 54 that year. Youth doesn't last forever.
What do I know?
Just a bit.

Go and play in the traffic you egotistical self opinionated wanker.

Well, you're probably right.
I mean, what do I know?
I said those wide tail wave boards sucked.
YOU disagreed...your right, of course. I can respect your opinion.
But it appears board makers see things differently. No wide tail wave boards for now.
But you loved that dog, the Hypersonic. Did you not?
Well, you must be clairvoyant, see how many windsurfers are now using Hypersonics now?
Great board, I was wrong about that one too, wasn't I?

Just complete rubbish referring back to 1984. Let alone early 2000s? And having issues old mate.
All manufacturers have had issues in some form. And let's get real, all fairly minor. Quickly erased/fixed or replaced with no issues. And that goes for most brands. touchwood I've had absolutely no problems with NP gear the last 10-11years, I've been on them. And that's wave/race gear. welcome to your opinion but a load of irrelevant jibbersh.
Now just another topic bombarded!

I think what LeeD fails to understands is just as he's entitled to spout his negative bull****, we're just as entitled to call him out for it. You say what you want, but don't be surprised when people say what they want back.



PS Pryde rocks :)

Old mate's meds have been changed again... Go get em tiger, make surfsailing great again!

Just sayin.

I see your point.
Everything is excellent.
There are NO negatives, and we should always post only positives on this site.

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LeeD said..
Substance.
What can I know?
Worked at various shops for 23+ years.
Always sailed over 90 days a year from 1984 to present with 1995 devoted to river kayaking.
Had NP sponsorship 3 separate times, never got denied sails from them.
My shop owners did force me off Pryde 3 times.
Sponsored by other sail companies when not with NP.
Sail sponsorships did end in 2004, but dude, I was 54 that year. Youth doesn't last forever.
What do I know?
Just a bit.

What kayaks do you recommend?

what are you doing?
A 5'6" hard edged v bottom with volume at both ends for rodeo.
A 19' pointy displacement U bottom with volume for covering distance, rocker for swells, flattish for closed waters.

A wooden candian canoe is the same thing.
Just as good, in fact the ones that they used in the 1950's are still great, I mean the pros back then were better than us now.

"What KAYAK do you recommend?"

Windsurfing lost out bigtime in 1995 ... , it might never recover ...