Hello all

In float&ride boards I appreciate maneuverability, easy slogging and easy uphauling, just in case. If you have a board for everything you may want to use it in on shore conditions as well. Now many boards are designed with more volume at the back, between mast and footstraps in order to keep speed in onshore turns and slog easily. However, if you move the volume from the front to the back uphauling can be more difficult.

Could somebody say which wave and freewave models of last years are more balanced between front and back volumes?

Thks

Starboards are usually more flattering in terms of volume. JP less so, Goya and fanatic tend to be pretty close, quattro maybe close to JP.

Anyway, so many models, so many years. You really need to uphaul? If you do then it must be side off for sure. Because side on conditions where you can't waterstart....

If you want float&ride get float&ride rather than a big waveboard that does everything but nothing especially well. Sealion and X-Longboard are deeply loved by everyone who owns them. Both slashy in onshore conditions, both very balanced. The Sealion will accept a foil for either wing or sail and the X-Longboard is faster.

for me it depends to a large extend on the wave period you anticipate/can get.
Short period wind swell and side currents: good fat tail/ fishtail/tomo compact
Groundswell: current breed of high-volume waveboards are just fantastic in combining float and a sharp business rear-end for agility
Freewaves: never had one

Also depends how easy it is to get out. If there's a proper channel you can go a lot smaller than if you have to slog over white water.

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Awalkspoiled said..
If you want float&ride get float&ride rather than a big waveboard that does everything but nothing especially well. Sealion and X-Longboard are deeply loved by everyone who owns them. Both slashy in onshore conditions, both very balanced. The Sealion will accept a foil for either wing or sail and the X-Longboard is faster.

I don't understand.
Surely float and ride is a fundamental performance requirement for a large wave board? Or for that matter any wave board. Float and ride is some of the best wavesailing you can get, isnt it?

^^ I thought that until I got one as a heavy guy. A 115L waveboard that is for lightweights to use in no wind is very different to a board same volume for a 105kg guy to use as his go-to waveboard. The width required for the former use often works against planing threshold for the latter, as the nose rocker is pushing too much water.

So it helps very much to know which are suited for each use when they are that big.

My epiphany (back when I was heavier) came when hating a 2014 model 118L Goya quad that many seemed to love, tried a 110L NuEVO and it felt way easier in every way. The issue was the 66.5cm wide waveboard being sluggish. It was crazy how much easier I got going on a board almost 10L smaller and you could really see the volume wasn't a lie. The smaller Goyas were great, so I realised you can't just add fatness anywhere to help with float and stability unless it is truly only for lightweights to use in a zephyr. Heavy sailor won't like it.

Yes ok. I can't see a good reason for a lightweight to be on a 115 litre wave board not sure why anyone would design for it!

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Mark _australia said..
you can't just add fatness

Truth, reminding myself about 17 times a day and it duly helps for sailing the "medium" boards in the shed :)

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sheddweller said..
Yes ok. I can't see a good reason for a lightweight to be on a 115 litre wave board not sure why anyone would design for it!

Well I've never been one but I am sure to be able to wavesail on a real board, not windSUP, in 10kn is lovely

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Mark _australia said..
^^ I thought that until I got one as a heavy guy. A 115L waveboard that is for lightweights to use in no wind is very different to a board same volume for a 105kg guy to use as his go-to waveboard. The width required for the former use often works against planing threshold for the latter, as the nose rocker is pushing too much water.

So it helps very much to know which are suited for each use when they are that big.

My epiphany (back when I was heavier) came when hating a 2014 model 118L Goya quad that many seemed to love, tried a 110L NuEVO and it felt way easier in every way. The issue was the 66.5cm wide waveboard being sluggish. It was crazy how much easier I got going on a board almost 10L smaller and you could really see the volume wasn't a lie. The smaller Goyas were great, so I realised you can't just add fatness anywhere to help with float and stability unless it is truly only for lightweights to use in a zephyr. Heavy sailor won't like it.

I don't get this,

how can width work against planning threshold.
what has width got to do with nose rocker pushing water.

Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

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Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

Ok, I see your point. I'd just think it's the wrong rocker.
one place I notice the lack of length most is sub planing heading out in onshore conditions. It's nice to have more rail length to help stay upwind-

coming in though I'm keen for shorter length .

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Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

Hey Mark, you have put into words thoughts that have been tumbling into my head for quite some time. Absolutely agree. Cheers.

Interesting discussion. With float n ride you have the dilemma of being able to float out, get on a wave early (enough) and then being able to ride it well in control. For the floating out part, it makes a big difference if there is a channel and how stable the wind is. And will you need to be able to up haul (if there are longer holes in the wind) or not. For the float, 2 things are important: lift and stability. Volume gives the lift, width the stability. You do not need more volume than what helps to float. If you float you float. More volume is not going to make you leave the water. And volume only gives lift when under water and the water is touching the deck (The law of Archimedes). Allready with a bit of wind and moving forward, you get a dynamic lift, even without planing. I know people who can float on boards smaller than their weight. They will sink the board when uphauling but as soon as they can get wind, the board will come up. And a board that is under water may actually feel more stable when it is choppy than a board on the surface. Still takes some skill though.
For dynamic lift and stability, width is the most important. Not all too difficult so far. Getting on a wave is another part. As a wave has a curved shape a board with more rocker usually works better than a flat tailed board. The smoother the rocker distribution and the closer the boards rocker matches the wave shape, the better. Also having the straps more forward helps to get and keep speed as it will pevent sinking the tail and causing too much drag due to the too high trim angle. With more rocker, the board will still turn well.
Once you get speed, the lift of water increases exponentially with the speed. That is a simple physical law. How fast you will go depends on the wave and wind direction. Cross off shore winds will get accelerated on the wave face by a decent sized wave, side shore winds usually not. With the lift increasing exponentially width becomes quickly a limiting factor for control and turning. This is the difficulty of a float n ride board. So you have to make compromises in the boards shape. What the best compromise will be depends on all these factors. Having the width more forward for floating and catching a wave with a narrower tail for once you are on the wave, helps to make this compromise and it also helps turning. A narrower tail also requires to have the straps a bit more forward. This is my float n ride board for 90kg: 106L, 2359x636mm, tail 378mm

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Gestalt said..

Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

Ok, I see your point. I'd just think it's the wrong rocker.
one place I notice the lack of length most is sub planing heading out in onshore conditions. It's nice to have more rail length to help stay upwind-

coming in though I'm keen for shorter length .

How short? And what do you think the shortness allows you to do that you can't do on a moderate length board?

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Bouke-Witchcraft said..
Interesting discussion. With float n ride you have the dilemma of being able to float out, get on a wave early (enough) and then being able to ride it well in control. For the floating out part, it makes a big difference if there is a channel and how stable the wind is. And will you need to be able to up haul (if there are longer holes in the wind) or not. For the float, 2 things are important: lift and stability. Volume gives the lift, width the stability. You do not need more volume than what helps to float. If you float you float. More volume is not going to make you leave the water. And volume only gives lift when under water and the water is touching the deck (The law of Archimedes). Allready with a bit of wind and moving forward, you get a dynamic lift, even without planing. I know people who can float on boards smaller than their weight. They will sink the board when uphauling but as soon as they can get wind, the board will come up. And a board that is under water may actually feel more stable when it is choppy than a board on the surface. Still takes some skill though.
For dynamic lift and stability, width is the most important. Not all too difficult so far. Getting on a wave is another part. As a wave has a curved shape a board with more rocker usually works better than a flat tailed board. The smoother the rocker distribution and the closer the boards rocker matches the wave shape, the better. Also having the straps more forward helps to get and keep speed as it will pevent sinking the tail and causing too much drag due to the too high trim angle. With more rocker, the board will still turn well.
Once you get speed, the lift of water increases exponentially with the speed. That is a simple physical law. How fast you will go depends on the wave and wind direction. Cross off shore winds will get accelerated on the wave face by a decent sized wave, side shore winds usually not. With the lift increasing exponentially width becomes quickly a limiting factor for control and turning. This is the difficulty of a float n ride board. So you have to make compromises in the boards shape. What the best compromise will be depends on all these factors. Having the width more forward for floating and catching a wave with a narrower tail for once you are on the wave, helps to make this compromise and it also helps turning. A narrower tail also requires to have the straps a bit more forward. This is my float n ride board for 90kg: 106L, 2359x636mm, tail 378mm

Personally having tried shorter boards, at my 95-97 kg I am back to 2.35 as the minimum length pretty much all the time for all my boards. I don't even mind 2.45, they seem to work good for me.I'm just lazy and that little bit extra rocker line just seems to work better for me. Is that mad or does that sound like it could make sense?

Select to expand quote

sheddweller said..

Bouke-Witchcraft said..
Interesting discussion. With float n ride you have the dilemma of being able to float out, get on a wave early (enough) and then being able to ride it well in control. For the floating out part, it makes a big difference if there is a channel and how stable the wind is. And will you need to be able to up haul (if there are longer holes in the wind) or not. For the float, 2 things are important: lift and stability. Volume gives the lift, width the stability. You do not need more volume than what helps to float. If you float you float. More volume is not going to make you leave the water. And volume only gives lift when under water and the water is touching the deck (The law of Archimedes). Allready with a bit of wind and moving forward, you get a dynamic lift, even without planing. I know people who can float on boards smaller than their weight. They will sink the board when uphauling but as soon as they can get wind, the board will come up. And a board that is under water may actually feel more stable when it is choppy than a board on the surface. Still takes some skill though.
For dynamic lift and stability, width is the most important. Not all too difficult so far. Getting on a wave is another part. As a wave has a curved shape a board with more rocker usually works better than a flat tailed board. The smoother the rocker distribution and the closer the boards rocker matches the wave shape, the better. Also having the straps more forward helps to get and keep speed as it will pevent sinking the tail and causing too much drag due to the too high trim angle. With more rocker, the board will still turn well.
Once you get speed, the lift of water increases exponentially with the speed. That is a simple physical law. How fast you will go depends on the wave and wind direction. Cross off shore winds will get accelerated on the wave face by a decent sized wave, side shore winds usually not. With the lift increasing exponentially width becomes quickly a limiting factor for control and turning. This is the difficulty of a float n ride board. So you have to make compromises in the boards shape. What the best compromise will be depends on all these factors. Having the width more forward for floating and catching a wave with a narrower tail for once you are on the wave, helps to make this compromise and it also helps turning. A narrower tail also requires to have the straps a bit more forward. This is my float n ride board for 90kg: 106L, 2359x636mm, tail 378mm

Personally having tried shorter boards, at my 95-97 kg I am back to 2.35 as the minimum length pretty much all the time for all my boards. I don't even mind 2.45, they seem to work good for me.I'm just lazy and that little bit extra rocker line just seems to work better for me. Is that mad or does that sound like it could make sense?

Indeed, I always look at things proportionally so at 95-97kg, 2.35x62 for a 100L medium to high wind board seems about right. And for a 115L light wind board 240x65 approx. For a 100L medium wind board and the idea that on average the waves will be a bit smaller I?d make it a bit shorter and wider, like 233x62.5 and a touch less rocker. Through my production ranges, for each size up I?d add say 1% length, 1.4% width and 1.2% thickness to get 3 to 4L more volume. And the foot straps 2mm more apart, with the back strap always in the same position. With the idea that a 62L will never be used by a 90kg rider and a 100L never by a 60kg rider. From what I learned from making custom boards for people of different weights, this works out well as an average for most people. The speed difference between going out and riding makes designing a board for float n ride a lot more challenging though. If you go 10% faster, the force of the water (and air) becomes 22% higher. If you go twice as fast, the force becomes 4 times higher, etc. Apart from the things I mentioned before, there is more what you can improve. With such conditions usually being cleaner, I make the rails from the front foot pretty much fully sharp, this gives more planing area without having to make the board wider and gives more grip and drive and helps the reactivity. Also the bottom shape is different. And a flex tail is another big help.This for example was a special board for extremely light wind float n ride @ One Eye for a 90kg local rider and he wanted to be able to uphaul: 110L Flex tail, 2429x640

I also found that a longer board help in float n ride where the wind is gusty and you need good upwind and speep off the plane.

I also feel that having a limited amount of rocker helps getting onto the plane and thus catching the wave further away from the peak. As in (prone) surfing, placement is key in float n ride. So a board that catch wave easily and further/earlier is a good help. Of course this is then a limitation for tight turns but some waves too small and fast, or too soft, to do tight turns.

Personnally I don t really see the point of sealion or even strapped sealion or any other specific big float n ride boards. The only moment when they have the edge on classic waveboard is when the wind is super light. At this point the wind is not an issue to prone surf...

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sheddweller said..

Gestalt said..

Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

Ok, I see your point. I'd just think it's the wrong rocker.
one place I notice the lack of length most is sub planing heading out in onshore conditions. It's nice to have more rail length to help stay upwind-

coming in though I'm keen for shorter length .

How short? And what do you think the shortness allows you to do that you can't do on a moderate length board?

I'm at the point where 135 is about perfect too. Have had boards down to 220 and I'm not a fan.
I like the extra length to rail against going upwind. The shorter length for the reduced swing weight . Bigger boards don't need to feel like bigger boards. Boards feel a lot more nimble when they are shorter. But too short and I start to struggle to tack and uphaul.

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Nicko29 said..
I also found that a longer board help in float n ride where the wind is gusty and you need good upwind and speep off the plane.

I also feel that having a limited amount of rocker helps getting onto the plane and thus catching the wave further away from the peak. As in (prone) surfing, placement is key in float n ride. So a board that catch wave easily and further/earlier is a good help. Of course this is then a limitation for tight turns but some waves too small and fast, or too soft, to do tight turns.

Personnally I don t really see the point of sealion or even strapped sealion or any other specific big float n ride boards. The only moment when they have the edge on classic waveboard is when the wind is super light. At this point the wind is not an issue to prone surf...

Agree.

limited rocker isn't a bad thing in a wave board of any size and I'd suggest important for a float and ride board for a heavyweight

Being 115 kg , I'm always on the quest of getting planing early. Wide boards don't work. There is too much front of the board to get going faster than the wake it has to get over to start planing. It's good if you're light and floating like a cork , but if you're heavy it's like pushing a filing cabinet through the water. SLW and Formula boards are the worst. I realised this when I had two Xcite ride 150 l boards . An older model and newer wider shaped one. The older narrower longer one planed much earlier. A huge difference. Testing back to back. I sold the newer one and patched up the old one. When using a small wind swell to get going the old board easily accelerated, the wider one just bogged. I learned a lot . Since then , I make my own boards and I think I've come up with the perfect formula for me. Longer , narrower , parallel sides and flatter longer rocker. I now plane as early as the lighter guys. I know I'm giving up some manuvability but if your not planing , nothing is happening.
I believe this formula still relates to light wind float and ride wave riding for heavier riders.

Physical laws tell us that width is more important than length. More efficient. Look at the wings of sail planes or windmills. But there are other important factors. If you make a shorter board with the same total amount of rocker, it will have more curvature, thus drag more when getting planing. OTOH, for wave sailing, a longer board needs more total amount of rocker not to bury the nose and turn as well, so in fact have the same amount of curvature. Another really important and often overlooked factor is foot strap placement to adjust the trim angle. It has become fashion to place the straps quite far to the back. Moving the straps forward makes a big change to early planing, even more so for less skilled riders who are not as good in using mast foot pressure to keep the trim angle low. (BTW, for very big or tall riders often the boom cut out is (too) low, moving the boom up also helps to give MFP) By moving the straps forward you are increasing the planing area and especially the tail area. But in float n ride DTL riding there is hardly any sail pressure to convert into MFP so there it is also a good thing for skilled riders, given that the board has enough rocker to turn well. Or if you find the board slow and dull, moving the straps back just one position can totally change the board, make it faster and looser. Its happened various times that I gave such advice to customers and then hearing: I should have known that years ago.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

At what point does that thickness make for a corky board which is hard to balance?

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Nicko29 said..
I also found that a longer board help in float n ride where the wind is gusty and you need good upwind and speep off the plane.

I also feel that having a limited amount of rocker helps getting onto the plane and thus catching the wave further away from the peak. As in (prone) surfing, placement is key in float n ride. So a board that catch wave easily and further/earlier is a good help. Of course this is then a limitation for tight turns but some waves too small and fast, or too soft, to do tight turns.

Personnally I don t really see the point of sealion or even strapped sealion or any other specific big float n ride boards. The only moment when they have the edge on classic waveboard is when the wind is super light. At this point the wind is not an issue to prone surf...

I have a Sealion Wings (9'2, 130ltr) and a Tabou 3s+ in 115.
The Sealion is a lot easier to use in low wind conditions. Especially going out through the waves. Easier to hang out waiting for a wave.
Riding the wave it self is more fun with the Tabou. Much easier to turn.

The Sealion is much less physical. Basically just to have fun. Also allows for a smaller sail (I use 4.9 for 85kg).
Often I come back from a session and I didn't fall into the water.

I'd recommend a Sealion for up to 12 knots wind and around 1m waves.

Getting upwind can be very hard especially with current, for me true float and ride on anything i would actually want to ride would require side off, little to no chop or current, decent waves, and hopefully a channel. So only some of the special spots or rare days. Extra volume, fin, and length can make a big difference in getting upwind in very light conditions the exact opposite of what I want on the wave. For pros the range of conditions they can manage will be much wider. Sub-planing upwind and planing coming in would be my more normal "light" air, don't need an extreme setup for that, +%10-15 volume over weight would work for most people on most production wave board dimensions.

love the bouke flex tail and great comments on this.

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Mark _australia said..
Its only my theory to explain why above a certain width a pure waveboard gets slower to plane

If you hold a flat plane like piece of wood at 45deg to the water (submerged) and push it around in the water, a wider one is harder to push.
More drag.

Now as to where the extra lift helps more than the extra drag i dunno. Its just my observation that with a highly rockered board an extra inch can bog it. Wide for float n ride, thicker and narrower for a planing board (for same volume and same rocker etc)

the question should be, why wide boards seem to plane earlier? As you mention your idea visually makes clear why a narrower board should have a lower planning threshold force needed. The wider board always has a higher planing threshold force as your analogy makes clear. It creates a bigger bow wave. Bear in mind that this is only comparable if the planing surfaces are of similar size.
But here comes the point a wide board has usually a bigger planing surface. I say usually, as because of the "high rocker" the wave board sinks deeper in the aft and having an even bigger bow wave then it is more difficult to pass that threshold so in the end, you gain nothing or worse because a wide board has a higher displacement resistance os it is more difficult to get it to the threshold speed.
BTW modern slalom boards only get on the plane faster, if you actively push the board over the bow wave. And a 2nd thing to consider is that shorter boards have slower max displacement speeds (remember displacement speeds are limited by length) which actually makes a slalom board want to get onto the plane earlier, but only if you have the skills to push it.

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Bouke-Witchcraft said..

sheddweller said..

Bouke-Witchcraft said..
Interesting discussion. With float n ride you have the dilemma of being able to float out, get on a wave early (enough) and then being able to ride it well in control. For the floating out part, it makes a big difference if there is a channel and how stable the wind is. And will you need to be able to up haul (if there are longer holes in the wind) or not. For the float, 2 things are important: lift and stability. Volume gives the lift, width the stability. You do not need more volume than what helps to float. If you float you float. More volume is not going to make you leave the water. And volume only gives lift when under water and the water is touching the deck (The law of Archimedes). Allready with a bit of wind and moving forward, you get a dynamic lift, even without planing. I know people who can float on boards smaller than their weight. They will sink the board when uphauling but as soon as they can get wind, the board will come up. And a board that is under water may actually feel more stable when it is choppy than a board on the surface. Still takes some skill though.
For dynamic lift and stability, width is the most important. Not all too difficult so far. Getting on a wave is another part. As a wave has a curved shape a board with more rocker usually works better than a flat tailed board. The smoother the rocker distribution and the closer the boards rocker matches the wave shape, the better. Also having the straps more forward helps to get and keep speed as it will pevent sinking the tail and causing too much drag due to the too high trim angle. With more rocker, the board will still turn well.
Once you get speed, the lift of water increases exponentially with the speed. That is a simple physical law. How fast you will go depends on the wave and wind direction. Cross off shore winds will get accelerated on the wave face by a decent sized wave, side shore winds usually not. With the lift increasing exponentially width becomes quickly a limiting factor for control and turning. This is the difficulty of a float n ride board. So you have to make compromises in the boards shape. What the best compromise will be depends on all these factors. Having the width more forward for floating and catching a wave with a narrower tail for once you are on the wave, helps to make this compromise and it also helps turning. A narrower tail also requires to have the straps a bit more forward. This is my float n ride board for 90kg: 106L, 2359x636mm, tail 378mm

Personally having tried shorter boards, at my 95-97 kg I am back to 2.35 as the minimum length pretty much all the time for all my boards. I don't even mind 2.45, they seem to work good for me.I'm just lazy and that little bit extra rocker line just seems to work better for me. Is that mad or does that sound like it could make sense?

Indeed, I always look at things proportionally so at 95-97kg, 2.35x62 for a 100L medium to high wind board seems about right. And for a 115L light wind board 240x65 approx. For a 100L medium wind board and the idea that on average the waves will be a bit smaller I?d make it a bit shorter and wider, like 233x62.5 and a touch less rocker. Through my production ranges, for each size up I?d add say 1% length, 1.4% width and 1.2% thickness to get 3 to 4L more volume. And the foot straps 2mm more apart, with the back strap always in the same position. With the idea that a 62L will never be used by a 90kg rider and a 100L never by a 60kg rider. From what I learned from making custom boards for people of different weights, this works out well as an average for most people. The speed difference between going out and riding makes designing a board for float n ride a lot more challenging though. If you go 10% faster, the force of the water (and air) becomes 22% higher. If you go twice as fast, the force becomes 4 times higher, etc. Apart from the things I mentioned before, there is more what you can improve. With such conditions usually being cleaner, I make the rails from the front foot pretty much fully sharp, this gives more planing area without having to make the board wider and gives more grip and drive and helps the reactivity. Also the bottom shape is different. And a flex tail is another big help.This for example was a special board for extremely light wind float n ride @ One Eye for a 90kg local rider and he wanted to be able to uphaul: 110L Flex tail, 2429x640

115L 65 wide and one eye. This design doesn't make sense to me. I prefer quatro approach. They made Tom Harmann a 120L 62cm wide.

My float and ride board has less volume (85 L) than my normal wave board (86 L). Just a different shape. A good old 85 L Quatro Super Mini - 217 x 57.5 cm, tail 38.5 cm. The wide tail keeps it going, while still being easy to turn and incredibly playful. I am 72 kg.

Select to expand quote

Bouke-Witchcraft said..
Physical laws tell us that width is more important than length. More efficient. Look at the wings of sail planes or windmills. But there are other important factors. If you make a shorter board with the same total amount of rocker, it will have more curvature, thus drag more when getting planing. OTOH, for wave sailing, a longer board needs more total amount of rocker not to bury the nose and turn as well, so in fact have the same amount of curvature. Another really important and often overlooked factor is foot strap placement to adjust the trim angle. It has become fashion to place the straps quite far to the back. Moving the straps forward makes a big change to early planing, even more so for less skilled riders who are not as good in using mast foot pressure to keep the trim angle low. (BTW, for very big or tall riders often the boom cut out is (too) low, moving the boom up also helps to give MFP) By moving the straps forward you are increasing the planing area and especially the tail area. But in float n ride DTL riding there is hardly any sail pressure to convert into MFP so there it is also a good thing for skilled riders, given that the board has enough rocker to turn well. Or if you find the board slow and dull, moving the straps back just one position can totally change the board, make it faster and looser. Its happened various times that I gave such advice to customers and then hearing: I should have known that years ago.

"Physical laws tell us"? What do you know about physical laws? Everything I read from you doesn't make my believe that you have any.

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SchobiHH said..

Bouke-Witchcraft said..
Physical laws tell us that width is more important than length. More efficient. Look at the wings of sail planes or windmills. But there are other important factors. If you make a shorter board with the same total amount of rocker, it will have more curvature, thus drag more when getting planing. OTOH, for wave sailing, a longer board needs more total amount of rocker not to bury the nose and turn as well, so in fact have the same amount of curvature. Another really important and often overlooked factor is foot strap placement to adjust the trim angle. It has become fashion to place the straps quite far to the back. Moving the straps forward makes a big change to early planing, even more so for less skilled riders who are not as good in using mast foot pressure to keep the trim angle low. (BTW, for very big or tall riders often the boom cut out is (too) low, moving the boom up also helps to give MFP) By moving the straps forward you are increasing the planing area and especially the tail area. But in float n ride DTL riding there is hardly any sail pressure to convert into MFP so there it is also a good thing for skilled riders, given that the board has enough rocker to turn well. Or if you find the board slow and dull, moving the straps back just one position can totally change the board, make it faster and looser. Its happened various times that I gave such advice to customers and then hearing: I should have known that years ago.

"Physical laws tell us"? What do you know about physical laws? Everything I read from you doesn't make my believe that you have any.

Question: Why are airplane, windturbine or sail plane wings long (perpendicular to the flow=width with boards) and narrow (with the flow=length with boards)? I guess they are all developed wrong than eh? Why didn?t they listen to you? And we can go on to Formula boards, foils etc. etc.