I've been using Tushingham X15 sails the last few years and really like them. They are out of action now, so it's time to move on. Durability is a very important factor to me as I can't afford to turn sails over regularly.
I don't believe a strong durable sail has to be a slow sail.
I bought a RRD Firewing and like it, but the monofilm seems very thin - I suspect it's not going to last long.
So what is the most solidly built option for my future brand loyalty?
Koncept
HSM GPS
Overdrive
MS TR..
Pity Ezzy don't do a 3 cam, 5 batten above the boom sail

Avanti look pretty durable.
Not much monofilm

avantisails.com/17-sails/machine-m4/

Yeh, that construction looks mint!
I'm scared to find out price

there's the conundrum.
fork out more and not renew so often.
or go for mono sails and upgrade every season or so.

Very true. I guess I'm just trying to find the sweet spot.

: seems durable. Don't know if it justifies the price. They do look good and their forum gives a lot of information about trim settings etc. Never tried one but considering the people involved I'm sure they are top notch. I'm not a big fan of Gun Sails, but quality wise they hold up very well and they do provide most bang for your buck.

Well that's a pretty compelling demo!!

I currently Sail Avanti - They are bullet proof and very light - currently on the M3's but have used the M1x's for 3 seasons and were still in great condition. Only updated to get a better shape/twist.
They are expensive but will outlast anything else on the market by years..

Just had a look at the avanti cost twice the cost of koncept
Do look nice mind and probably do out last mono...but there's something magical about rolling out a new sail as the packaging gently flutters away and your the first to lay eyes on her from factory.....hmmmm
If your one to hold onto kit cool I like to renew sails every 3 years, my koncepts are still bob on and only renewing because I want 'new sail joy'

Unfortunately there's no aussie dealer atm (can order direct from europe with free delivery though) but I sail 2011 (6.3, 7.8) & 2012 (7.0, 8.8) Loft Blades. Pretty much bullet proof although 2015 models went all mono film under the guise that "monofilm" is faster (bullsh1t meter going off the scale). GPSTC sailing open ocean can be pretty demanding on gear and these sails have been through the wringer.

If I ever replace my Lofts it'll probably be KA koncepts/race as they're now primarily x-ply construction. Those avanti do seem incredibly tough too.

North Sails
plus 5 year warranty!!!

My 2015 KA Races still look great

Hey snags loft put up recently that we can order direct from them, worth having a look to check out prices! Not much difference between them pryde, north & avanti. If gonna pay premium may as well get premium brand.

For mono sails from what have seen MS TR's seem to last pretty well. Pity severne, pryde & now S2 dont make a properly built one & a lightweight pro edition type one, i think part of the rise of severne was they started building better then gone with the r7.

Select to expand quote

Stretchy said..
I've been using Tushingham X15 sails the last few years and really like them. They are out of action now, so it's time to move on. Durability is a very important factor to me as I can't afford to turn sails over regularly.
I don't believe a strong durable sail has to be a slow sail.
I bought a RRD Firewing and like it, but the monofilm seems very thin - I suspect it's not going to last long.
So what is the most solidly built option for my future brand loyalty?
Koncept
HSM GPS
Overdrive
MS TR..
Pity Ezzy don't do a 3 cam, 5 batten above the boom sail

You'd be surprised how fast the Ezzy lion is .
i use cheetahs some 7 battens some 6 ,do own a x15 7.0 .I use to have warps .
ezzy have good sail stability with scrim .

I do like Ezzy, just not convinced of speed. Used to have an Infinity, which was great, but the Koncept that followed was faster.
The other big bonus for me being 2hrs from the nearest windsurfing shop is that the Perth dealer is usually open and provides excellent online purchasing.

curious about the MS TRs too. No experience with them, but like the look. Plenty of battens so I would expect a very stable top end.

north sails are a mystery to me?

I've been windsurfing short boards since 1983, raced Stroh's World Cups against the Europeans for 3 years, won a few local surf slalom races, and competed in Speed Trials for years, a long time ago.
I always thought sails actually made a difference.
But I was wrong.
I've been biased against Ezzy sails because I'd never seen an Ezzy sailor I couldn't easily pass, whether the same size, a meter smaller, or a meter bigger. Then I picked up a used '04 Ezzy Infinity 6.6.
It's as fast as any sail ever made, and that's comparing it to new (at least '14) sails with full on slalom kit, me on fast freeride. For the same winds, it might not have the same low end, so I rig it with less downhaul, but it's every bit as fast as my Norths, Gaastra's (including '17 Cosmic 6.7), Lofts, Simmers, or Neil Prydes.

Is there anything you haven't done, been great at or know nothing about??
Yeah I know, Im off topic but have noticed along with others that you are a know it all and don't mind telling us all about it!!
Modesty, ever heard of it??
Ban me now Laurie

Sorry.
I"m old, got to live a lot of year's, 67, and tried a bunch of things, never getting good at any.
Didn't have to work too much, so just did sports.
Like, owned and raced over 15 motocross bikes.
Raced a YDS-3C, Suzuki X-6, and a TD-2 for a couple years. AFM and CME road racing. That led directly to a job with Team Yamaha.
Surfed full time for 26 years.
Been sailing short boards since '83, Seatrend Team Rider from '85 thru '89.
Snowboarded over 400 days, starting late, but because I went to trade shows and worked at a shop, rode with some of the better riders.
Waterskiied over 100 days, maybe 10 with some pros in practice.
Even qualified to try out for a pro tennis tournament, but lost in the 2nd round of Q.
Ask your grand dad. I'll bet you'd be surprised all the things he did that you didn't know about.

Lots of x ply in Sailworks NX. Full panels from luff to leech and on special atm.
I considered them but didnt want to change masts but I am still keen to try them out.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said...
Blah blah blah

Mate who cares, there are many people on seabreeze just as if not more successful than you. No need to blow your own trumpet here as you have on every other forum over the years.

Back to sails...
You cant compare ezzy's to race sails, even watching Pritchard's speed. If you going to look at that then wait for the naish bullet replacement to arrive. A good 3 cam progressive draft & twist freerace sail can be great for speed (like say the gaastra gtx was) as tendency to be moved around or lifted is reduced. Hopefully naish do it that way instead of puttng fullness up high to aid bottom end.

Select to expand quote

mkseven said..
Hey snags loft put up recently that we can order direct from them, worth having a look to check out prices! Not much difference between them pryde, north & avanti. If gonna pay premium may as well get premium brand.

For mono sails from what have seen MS TR's seem to last pretty well. Pity severne, pryde & now S2 dont make a properly built one & a lightweight pro edition type one, i think part of the rise of severne was they started building better then gone with the r7.

Not sure if you've seen or used a S2 Maui but we've been using the Venom for more than 6 months now and been traveling (flights). They are still going strong, not showing more wear than the Mauisails that we know.

Being one of the lightest sail on the market people may assume they are not durable but it is a combination of "space-light" material, progressive weight film and carbon battens rather than saving on material were needed.

I guess time will tell but so far so good

Good to hear, when other brands have gone light it has resulted in poor quality including some brands issuing their team riders several sets of sails. One such brand i broke the bit of spaghetti they call a batten today just flipping sail in water, not something ive done in 25+ years of sailing.

Select to expand quote

col5555 said..
Lots of x ply in Sailworks NX. Full panels from luff to leech and on special atm.
I considered them but didnt want to change masts but I am still keen to try them out.

Interesting. I had a Sailworks race sail about 20 years ago, it was good. Haven't seen one out on the water in a long long time

Sure, you can compare rec. Ezzy's to full on slalom race sails. It's a sail after all, something to propel you on your way.
I sail with guys on the newest slalom gear all the time, at least within 2 years anyways, and I use freeride kit, so it's an easy comparison. My Ezzy is a '04 model Infinity 6.6. My newest sail is 2017 Gaastra Cosmic 6.7. Most of the guys I sail with use within 3 year old slalom race sails.
The relative speeds don't change just because you're using a old model Ezzy. Now in a real organized slalom race, it would, but that's assuming 5 minute heats, 3 sails rigged on the beach, and short reach's with 8 jibes. Freesailing is not the same thing. Freesailing is sailing for 2 hours, for whatever distance the wind and circumstances allow, is is more a matching up of top speeds rather than just start/jibing skills.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
Sorry.
I"m old, got to live a lot of year's, 67, and tried a bunch of things, never getting good at any.
......

Also I am running for president of the united states now.....





Hope you can take a joke as well....

the last few years I've needed to keep my windsurfing costs as low as reasonably possible. so I have held into my last set of sails for a while. I've stuck with north warps since 2004 (F2004, F2006, F2009, F2010 and F2012), mainly stuck with Norths because I gave a full set if North vipers/platinums masts and dont fancy folking out for another full set if masts.

All the north Warps I've had have been bought secondhand. North always seemed to use thick monofilm and decent luff tube material. I recently gof a F2013 9.6m and the monofilm was much much thinner than my F2010 9.5m. The main panel ripped after just three sessions. Luckily I still got my old F2010 9.5m so I'm back using it now.

tomorrow, im getting a F2014 7.8m, it'll be interesting to see if the monofilm is super thin like the F2013 9.6m. Hopefully North have gone back to thicker monofilm like on my older warps.

are all sail manufactures using thinner monofilm these days? I'm guessing saving weight is their priority!!

I have both '04 and '08 WARPS, and most of the slalom sailor's around have '16's or newer. One is a North Team Rider.
But my old '97 Spectros are every bit as fast, are easier to rig, jibe a little bit better.
As for the wide sleeve thing, it might be nice on 8 meter or bigger sails, but in 6.5 and smaller, makes no difference whatsoever. I do also have WARP's in '02, narrow sleeve.

Select to expand quote

mark62 said..
.....................are all sail manufactures using thinner monofilm these days? I'm guessing saving weight is their priority!!

I'm guessing saving on production costs is their priority!

Select to expand quote

sausage said..

mark62 said..
.....................are all sail manufactures using thinner monofilm these days? I'm guessing saving weight is their priority!!

I'm guessing saving on production costs is their priority!

+ 1000 on that

Seems every couple of year's, a new monofilm supplier make's it's way to the windsurfing tradeshows, promising increase life, imperviousness to UV, but at a slight increase in cost per foot per gauge (thickness).
So, the manufacturers are always looking for improvements, buy the technology, but try to save costs of more expensive materials by going thinner.
Or, the monofilm supplier promises that their new thinner monofilm will outlast the old thicker monofilm.
I remember Neil Prydes attempt at thin 4 mil mono, around 1990, when the film appeared more pliable and clear than any before it, when new, but quickly aged to a crackled, dull, clouded , and worn out material within 50 days of usage.
I wonder if the newst 4 mil is any better? I have a '17 Gaastra Cosmic 6.7 that has 17 days of usage now, so will be checking it closely. Unfortunately, no answer will be coming soon, as the windsurfing season around here ended a week or so ago.

Select to expand quote

mark62 said..
the last few years I've needed to keep my windsurfing costs as low as reasonably possible. so I have held into my last set of sails for a while. I've stuck with north warps since 2004 (F2004, F2006, F2009, F2010 and F2012), mainly stuck with Norths because I gave a full set if North vipers/platinums masts and dont fancy folking out for another full set if masts.

All the north Warps I've had have been bought secondhand. North always seemed to use thick monofilm and decent luff tube material. I recently gof a F2013 9.6m and the monofilm was much much thinner than my F2010 9.5m. The main panel ripped after just three sessions. Luckily I still got my old F2010 9.5m so I'm back using it now.

tomorrow, im getting a F2014 7.8m, it'll be interesting to see if the monofilm is super thin like the F2013 9.6m. Hopefully North have gone back to thicker monofilm like on my older warps.

are all sail manufactures using thinner monofilm these days? I'm guessing saving weight is their priority!!

The 9.0 and 9.6 will be thinner because they are targeting light winds. Softer sail for softer winds.