Allright!
I'm windsurfing Chesapeake bay, USA and only a few hours from the coast. My highwind windsurf skills are pretty good, borderline advanced depending on a sliding scale I suppose but I have only a minimum experience in the surf.

i'm 6' and 195#. or 88 kg on a good day ;) I can get to the ocean for small waves on sandbar breaks every once in awhile and am interested in board suggestions for lightwind wavesailing - sideshore to sideoff.

I have a JP 10'9 x 32", 189 liter windsup with centerboard that I've used a couple times but wonder if i'm robbing myself of a better experience on a different board???

and have been kind of obsessing on some Naish boards on closeout pricing. but at least due to lack of experience i'm paralyzed in deciding if another board is worth doing at all and if yes which one - 10'6, 11', 11'4. in my situation - I cannot tell if JP rocker is remotely similar to any of these for example.

any suggestions are welcome. fwiw - I've noticed couple fanatic fly and SB blend may be options but would have just a bit of brand loyalty to the Naish to overcome before getting serious about these.

With enough wind, you can ride any 85 liter wave boardn
All depends on wind speed, unless you are sup surfing.

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LeeD said..
With enough wind, you can ride any 85 liter wave boardn
All depends on wind speed, unless you are sup surfing.

Forum fail. Read what the poster said.

I can only give you an opinion on what I've ridden. I had various windsups which were OK because I could SUP them when not windy enough to sail. But then I moved to Florida where the wind is mostly cross onshore and windsups are not as ideal. So currently I prefer the Exocet Longboard. I have the 10'5 and it is great for light wind cross onshore sailing.

Good luck with your SUP when wind hits 25 mph

He said he wants lightwind wave sailing FFS

Are you actually a windsurfer?

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Mark _australia said..
He said he wants lightwind wave sailing FFS

Are you actually a windsurfer?

Hey Mark!

i think fair to say that thru your posts and online personna, you have earned respect from many readers (lurkers) of the of Seabreeze forum, which as far as i know is the coolest english-language WS forum! so thanks to you and all who take the effort to make a recommendation :)

Yes - long term windsurfer since the 90's. currently have an econoline van (my 4th) loaded with north sails 4.0-8.8, a 124 Futura, 115 Goya One, 94 Kode FW. at home on a rack is hyfly primo, mistral equipe 2 'concept', and the JP 10'9. Most sailing is on the Chespaeake which is front-driven winds of any strength, or feeble thermals, but usually not long-lived at any speed. Have also sailed hatteras/obx throughout but it is a little over 6hr drive. took the big trip to maui and sailed kanaha. have been going in ocean 'local' 3 hr drive periodically throughout but always concentrated on winds over 15mph using goya and other boards before that.

it is this lightwind windsup wavesailing that is an all 'new' thing for me. hugely enjoyable, simple, relaxing fun. i'm just trying to figure out how to do it 1/2 decent and maximize that enjoyment :) * in general, there is relatively little WS activity here, and prolly even less agreement on how it might be done with what gear, where, etc

LNC



btw - the exocet kona 10'5 and 11'5 are on my radar scrn as well ;)

LNC, What are others using in the conditions you describe? The posters can have very different ideas as to what light wind is. You have high wind skills.
my thought is a small WindSup, as a SeaLion, 10 or so.
you won't know what you have been missing till you fill the gap.
I quite like Naish, must be a similar equivalent , take advantage of the after summer sales.
Go for it.

I'm a similar weight. I have a full range of GPS slalom gear for bay sailing and a 103 Kode for bump and jump. However on the odd occasion I go light wind wave sailing I use a Fanatic 8' 9" Allwave SUP, which I also use for surfing. You could try your 10'9" SUP. It's probably too big to properly manoeuver on the wave but good enough to sail out and catch some swell on the way in.

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forceten said..
LNC, What are others using in the conditions you describe? The posters can have very different ideas as to what light wind is. You have high wind skills.
my thought is a small WindSup, as a SeaLion, 10 or so.
you won't know what you have been missing till you fill the gap.
I quite like Naish, must be a similar equivalent , take advantage of the after summer sales.
Go for it.

well, few others to take example from in realty. at obx, locals prolly do it but little chance of being at the right beach, right time to even see it unless somehow in the loop. that is basically one/yr trip for me at best. I get the feeling they are on shorter windsups; but have more windsurf skills, sup surf skills and better breaks available to them, than I do from my more accessible 3 hr drive to local coast. maybe mistaken, but i'd say this has been motivation for looking at longer boards - some prospect of catching 'anything' before it is critical, and in that way, getting the most bang for my buck on these infrequent trips

the jp catches waves but without a board to physically compare rocker with etc, I wonder if i'm robbing myself of a better surfing experience. there are naish videos that at least give me confidence they surf well in small waves, and good bit of chit chat about them in waves and even some vids as well. little uncertain if 10'6 naish is plenty and more than enough for this, or 11'4 will be silly fun better somehow.

it amazes me but seems to be no talk of sailing a jp 10'9 in waves beyond what I've posted right there above (which is not much). there is good bit of chit chat and some vids of exocets. only an option if I find one used and I wonder if any of those have been tested heads-up compared with a naish; noting exocets are intended to plane off in WS mode which is not my focus for this board.

overall - little prospects for seeing before buying, much less riding. imagine getting a new board just to see it is more or less same as the old one with not much prospect of being different/better :O n or riding for years only to somehow learn there was more fun board available the whole time :O

as it stands - other than typing, i'm keeping hands in pocket, planning to work on skills with old board until somehow become fairly certain something else will really help. meanwhile - closeout season is slipping by

Call Ken at Ocean Air in Avon.
He will prob point you towards a board they carry.
call Andy at WindNC, now in Vermont.
explain your desires and don't embellish your abilities .
call Derek at Delta Windsurf in Calif, Rio Vista.

call Keith at CNCFINS.COM, he prob as a fin designer , won't have anything to purchase, but he has awesome fins and advise.

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forceten said..
Call Ken at Ocean Air in Avon.
He will prob point you towards a board they carry.
call Andy at WindNC, now in Vermont.
explain your desires and don't embellish your abilities .
call Derek at Delta Windsurf in Calif, Rio Vista.

call Keith at CNCFINS.COM, he prob as a fin designer , won't have anything to purchase, but he has awesome fins and advise.

i think you are right! he actually spent rather large amt of time watching me swing around on various harnesses in the store - patience and experience ;)

i'd bet any one of them is familiar with sealion, some chance at naish , mebbe exo, but guessing none has seen a JP 10'9. personally - i dont have the context to estimate how much surfing a board this size might be capable, with exception of naish vids

LNC - to clarify, I was asking if LeeD is actually a windsurfer, given his retarded posts at times.

Anyway at your weight, you could sail a 116 or 118 Goya Quad. They are great for float n ride

Likewise 120L Nuevo if you can find one.

Not that I've down windSUP yet but any proper wave SUP.
Just not a 150L freeride board, no matter what some may say

Yup, some consider anything less than 25 as light wind, needing an equal float to slog on the inside.
Some use volume of full sinkers full time, like 65 liters for a sailor weighing 170 lbs. That is what they consider normal.
What is light, medium, or high wind to you?

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LeeD said..
Yup, some consider anything less than 25 as light wind, needing an equal float to slog on the inside.
Some use volume of full sinkers full time, like 65 liters for a sailor weighing 170 lbs. That is what they consider normal.
What is light, medium, or high wind to you?

You're stuck in the 1980's

Got me.
Last surfsailing session was '16 on a Starboard quad 76, wind 14-22 on a 1997 North Convert 5.2.
Palo Marin was chest high and medium tide. Had trouble getting g back up the cliff after the 1.5 hour session, just too pooped for this then 66 year old. Bud carried my rig up.

Used to be a wave sailor with a house on taranaki coast so yes understand the smaller board better performance on the a good size down the line wave with 88 liter wave board and 5.9m wave sail and in side/offshore can trog to windline and be in action.
With family life I want to be able to get on the water and make most of conditions. I have an Exocet windsup to sail in offshore but when its cross onish and not that windy I can get out into windline and ride the fatish waves. Naish nalu and Fanatic sup boards usually have insert to screw uni into and with tail rocker you will be able to get some turns
Sealoin look more wave focused but you probably want at least waist high face.
Good luck

I use a Stubby SUP with 130 liters, the shape is much like the F-One Papenoo 7'11. This board works really good for riding waves when they have some push and are about waist high or higher.
For anything smaller and less pushy than that i use my board with a Supfoil under it.
So the boardsize for you really depends on how much push/height the waves have which you want to ride?
Alex

Why not ride what you got?
My 150 Fly does just fine up to 18 mph breeze, and at 9'6", isn't horrible for cutbacks and otlips.
Watch the pearling.

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LeeD said..
Yup, some consider anything less than 25 as light wind, needing an equal float to slog on the inside.
Some use volume of full sinkers full time, like 65 liters for a sailor weighing 170 lbs. That is what they consider normal.
What is light, medium, or high wind to you?

He was clearly asking about wind light enough for windSUP.

As to use what you're got I agree.
But when people ask what is best, its not helpful to suggest what you've got

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AlexF said..
I use a Stubby SUP with 130 liters, the shape is much like the F-One Papenoo 7'11. This board works really good for riding waves when they have some push and are about waist high or higher.
For anything smaller and less pushy than that i use my board with a Supfoil under it.
So the boardsize for you really depends on how much push/height the waves have which you want to ride?
Alex

I think you're right on about the actual wave and break being key to a board that makes most of conds.

i guess worth differentiating a wobble/ride experience at a decent wave from a casual sailing experience, catching swell with less of a surfing wave. let's say it is a family trip to the beach and no sandblast wind conditions, no great surf break location, no med-large waves (and no LeedD). since I don't live real close to the ocean, this is my easiest-to-achieve beach trip. and with a smallish sail and only slight breeze, the JP 10'9 sails out comfy and without effort, then catches a wave every tack since it can catch swell before it is really jacking up or critical without much power from a sail, and allows for some ride experience. it doesn't need footstraps or harness. it's hugely engaging and fun, but leaves me wondering if a naish nalu for example would be a little more surfey feel and turn :)

i'm a little surprised how little content is available about litewind wavesailing in general, and the JP 10'9 in particular. not sure if it's the board, the marketing, or lack of people actually doing this sort of thing. i'm sure it could have a larger market since it asks so little in conds or skill really. there is a bit more www content about the naish boards used in windsup mode, but if internet content is the measure - Exocet kona's of one type or another dominate. but there are smallest indications of a more surfey experience in these conditions using 12' custom boards due to the feeling and reality of their glide vs boards designed to plane off in windsurf mode, ie can do both. and of course lots of good reviews for shorter windsups in more powerful conds. would be great to have all this kit on the beach one day to give it all a spin but that is just not happening here/now for sure.

idk - I believe 'use what you have' is wtg but doesn't mean it's end of the road either

here's a worthwhile vid of Jeff Henderson of HotSailsMaui sailing what I believe is a Sean Ordonez custom 12' with no much wind, but a much better quality wave than is available to me without airfare :)

"Best or better, or even good", is subject to interpretation.

Your SUP may work for riding waves in longboardstyle.
But that's not the way I ride my windsup in the waves. I prefer riding frontside top to bottom, and for this I found SUPs longer than 9 foot just too clumsy.

Hey personally I have an Exocet 10.2 windsurf .
I'm an old lazy experienced sailor..
It does it in light winds and anything up to about 2 metres.

At your weight I would definitely get a 10'5 Exocet longboard (ex Kona/Curve).
Or if you want even more confort and security , then maybe the 11'5.
You get the best of both world, for both waves and flat water, windy or not. It will float you just as well as a longboard SUP, the long waterline and rocker makes it easy to go upwind even when not planning, and if the wind starts to blow seriously you have a real planning fast freewave board too, unlike any windSUP which are real dogs with their super curvy rocker. And it turns ! I've had the old Kona 10'5, and still have the Kona 9'5, at 75kgs for me it's the ultimate funboard and it rocks in the waves, I'll never sell it.

I have a foil ready starboard hypernut 133 l that is pretty good on waves, but forget about planning with that board.

Later you can attach a supfoil on it and with a 5'2 and 12 knots you are in heaven!

Hi LNC.
Even though I live on Maui, some of my favorite days are wavesailing in very light winds, meaning 15 mph down to 5 mph. Here is a list of some of my board solutions for lightwind wavesailing. I should mention that I weigh 163 lbs (74 kilos), and I am 68 years old with 35 years of wavesailing in Hawaii.
1. If the surf is overhead, and I plan to be able to waterstart but not plane, I will take my 92 liter Quatro at 8'2" X 22.75". It is a narrow single-fin, and the longer waterline along with the 10" fin really helps in being able to point upwind at sub-planing speeds. Plus, it will rip on any size wave up to over 1.5-times mast high. Too much of a pain to uphaul this board at my age.
2. If the surf is head- high or less, and I hope to waterstart but may need to uphaul, I go to an old Naish single-fin waveboard at 100 liters, 8'6" X 23.5". Still long and narrow by today's standards, which again helps with getting upwind. At 100 liters, this board is easy to sail in 10 to 18 mph winds, and is uphaulable for me. However, it becomes too wide and too thick for my weight when the surf gets much overhead.
3. For non-waterstart conditions, I have a Sunova Speeed surf SUP that, like all Sunova surf SUPs, has a mini mast track. The board is 8'10" X 29" at 130 liters. It is easy to sail in any sub-12 mph conditions with good lightwind windsurfing skills, and its narrow tail helps it to ride waves better than most SUPs including top to bottom vertical turns. It is definitely uphaulable for me, and the long straight waterline makes it motor upwind with a thruster fin setup in as little as 5 mph winds. Bonus is that it surfs great without a sail.
4. If the surf is under shoulder-high, and I am feeling really lazy, I will take out an old Starboard Extreme SUP with a threaded mast insert that is 9'8" X 30" @ 150 liters. Stable and relaxing as standing on a dock, and reasonable for surfing longboard style on waves under head-high. Two days ago I took this out in conditions identical to the video above at Kanaha on Maui, and had fun as the only one out in 0-12 mph winds and waist to shoulder high waves. When the wind got up to 12-16 mph, I switched to the Goya 92 liter and enjoyed much higher performance on the wave.
For what it's worth, I use a 5.9 for light wind wavesailing if I hope to waterstart, and a 5.3 if the wind is too light to waterstart. I find that the larger sail inhibits the surf performance on SUP boards, plus it makes uphauling in the break more of a pain.
I hope all of that gives you some food for thought.

with a board you can uphaul vs a Wind SUP?

I prefer my waveboard I can uphaul in 12kts and more in side-off condition when I have a real wave(ground swell) at waist high. In less wind than that or mushy waves, I prefer my sealion. The difference with a Wind SUP and a Big wave boad is the SUP give you freedom with no foostrap and you have to move more your pressure point, I like it!

On side-on waist high, I really like a foostrap board when I'M very powered, you can jump and slash top turns....if not I prefer my sealion...back side smack with a front side here and there , super fun.

In very small wave...I prefer the sealion...you can have some surf feeling in knee high windswell...a bit more lively than a foostrap board.

Two type of riding.


Now long SUP vs Compact SUP, I prefer Compact SUP, but I'M not considering the Sealion 8'3 as a super compact..more in between, I have no interest(sorry for those who got some longboard) in super long wind sup...that's my taste.

BTW, in waist high and less as you asked, you don't need a waveboard, a 120 freeride could be as fun as a wave 118 in most side on condition in my opinion since you are saying you are not wave riding often and if I read between the line.

I just got this board and video is previous owner

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Al1 said..
At your weight I would definitely get a 10'5 Exocet longboard (ex Kona/Curve).
Or if you want even more confort and security , then maybe the 11'5.
You get the best of both world, for both waves and flat water, windy or not. It will float you just as well as a longboard SUP, the long waterline and rocker makes it easy to go upwind even when not planning, and if the wind starts to blow seriously you have a real planning fast freewave board too, unlike any windSUP which are real dogs with their super curvy rocker. And it turns ! I've had the old Kona 10'5, and still have the Kona 9'5, at 75kgs for me it's the ultimate funboard and it rocks in the waves, I'll never sell it.

Yes Al1 the previous owner said he would never sell it but his foiling addition has taken over.
Apart from the very odd days like in the video my main use will be our onshore at my local surf beach where its too windy to sup but not windy enough for short board.
Tomorrow is looking good to get it wet

LNC,
I live about an hour + drive from the beach in LA. After getting skunked too many times with my 94 liter wave board i decided to get a SUP i could paddle surf if there was no wind and also throw a sail on if the wind was too light for my wave board. i weigh 165 and am 5'9" and quickly approaching 60 years!
My first SUP over 10 years ago was a 200 + liter 12'2 x 26 3/4 starboard. It has a thruster set up and you can put a dagger board in from the bottom. It was just too heavy at 30 + pds. Sailed very well though and i still use it to paddle in small surf. It had 2 screw inserts for a mast base.
Then i bought a used Angulo 10'8' x 31 180 liter Sup with a thruster set up and a proper full length mast track. i used it for a couple years but it too was too heavy and not very manouverable in the surf when paddling or sailing. I usually used a 5.2 sail as it floated well and the rocker was minimal so it would plane up very well. I kept it as my SUP windsurf baord for beginners. It was great and alot of people learned on it, but it was not much in the waves.
Then i bought an exocet wave SUP 8'11" x 32 inches and i beleive 140 liters. It rode waves very well in sup mode, but the rocker was too much for sup sailing in small waves. Exocet had the same female screw insert as the Starboard. The insert popped out when i was sailing it in big surf. I then installed a mast track in it. the first time i sailed it with the full mast track it was really fun in the waves and held up, but was stolen off the top of my car that night. i was tired and lazy from a good sailing session and left it on the car. Honestly i dont miss the board that much. it had alot of Rocker which was good in the waves, but just didnt sail that well with all that rocker.
My newest board at 4 years now is a used exocet "evo" Sup . 9'6" and maybe 130 to 140 liters. I think it says online its 127 liters, but i think it is bigger. It too had an insufficient female mast screw that popped out the first or second time the whitewater got ahold of the board. I again installed a small length mast track. I sup surf it with a 6 inch center fin and 3 inch thrusters. then when i surf sail it i put in a 9.5 inch wave fin. Honestly i sail it 2 x as much as my Goya 99 liter thruster. The board has just the right amount of rocker to ride a wave with nice bottom turns and it will carve up the face too. Does not like waves bigger than 3-4. I am out on it before and after the kiters and can stay on it in planing conditions too. I love it!
I suggest finding a sup thats around 140 to 160 liters that is not too wide. the thinner the better for sailing i find. not too much rocker either as when learning it is harder to catch a wave. Your conditions i suspect dont have many days of powerful waves.
I am really curious about Sealion boards too. they look to be designed just right with rocker that is good for being able to both plane while windsurfing and catching small waves while paddling.
My Exocet Evo has really been a game changer for me getting 3 x more use than any other board i have ever had.
I think both Nordroi and Obijohn know their stuff too when it comes to sailing a sup.
i look forward to hearing what you decided.

i have WS kit i could slog, but my gut impression is that in small stuff with lite wind, i'll appreciate some longboard glide and 'sailing comfort' to increase overall enjoyability. but it looks like trend over some years is away from long/narrow/glide in favor of shorter/wider easier to stand on.

after reading thru other's experiences, i think wtg is to keep an open mind and avoid getting 'trapped' with a new purchase, and make some effort to demo and buy used if possible. thanks to everyone that does relate their experience since there is precious little information on this topic.

i've tried doing some online research of boards like nalu 10'6, stylemaster 10', starboard drive 10'5, exocet kona, but it means little without trying it out. i havent shut out the possibility of shorter boards, but am reluctant to go any wider than the boards named without trying, and really liking the overall experience. as far as that goes - hope to give AllWave a go.