Hi there,

the Cube is already compared to the Pyramid or the Custom 4 but aren't these boards, as DL Ripper the wrong category for the Cube?

If someone could compare the Cube with the Custom 3 or other Realworld Waveboards would be very helpful.

All I know for know is the different Fin Setup and Tailshape, but both are the all-rounder. So, how does the feel on the water.

Greetings

Hi!
I just made a side by side test for three days in different conditions
with the Cube 87L 2020 and the Goya 3 91L 2020.
I will post the result of how i experienced the two boards later this week.

3 days testing is going to be anecdotal at best ... Probably need a few weeks testing with diff fin set-ups to fully smooth out the ride of a new board and get them as non glitchy as possible ... and adapting techniques to adjust to iidiosyncrasies of a new board, having said that - there's not a alot of room fin movement in them brands ... but bet some messing about with fronts would get better DTL sideshore performance particularly ...

Ive got a set of boards out of 1 brands range - probably took me 2 years to find an AMAZING DROP JAW set-up !!! .... and show their full potential - but it needed a total dress down of fin set-ups and switch of technique , a switch in my fin mentality (more power) , a switch to thruster , and adjusting fins so I could run as far back in box positions as possible and STILL be able to lug onto slotbox screws , ... and can for sure say any test riders on the boards would never have run the set-ups I now use ... anyways - I found some golden bullets ..... ! that rip harder for me than anything ever ...

Anyways - what findings you got Pepto .... ?

In an hour in good conditions you can find out exactly how a board sails and what it feels like, and the board will tell you what style and stance you need to use for it just from the instant feedback it gives you when sailing. Sure different setups with change the board slightly for better or worse, but you can tell everything you need to know about a board in an hour of sailing it. (In those conditions... you may need to test a board for an hour each in onshore and down the line etc)

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RuaraidhK257 said..
In an hour in good conditions you can find out exactly how a board sails and what it feels like, and the board will tell you what style and stance you need to use for it just from the instant feedback it gives you when sailing. Sure different setups with change the board slightly for better or worse, but you can tell everything you need to know about a board in an hour of sailing it. (In those conditions... you may need to test a board for an hour each in onshore and down the line etc)

Hmmmm.
In an hour you can get a very good first impression how a board sails - at that launch spot and in those conditions. If the launch spot is your regular sailing place then you get a direct comparison compared to boards you normally sail there.

However, if you take that board to another sailing location then you'll often reach very different conclusions. A different weight sailor will also reach a very different opinion.
I have several boards that work really well at my local break, but which don't perform so well when I take them elsewhere - perhaps exchanging cross-on and to cross-off conditions. If you go to a location with strong currents and a lot of white water you will often like boards with more floats and with a flatter rocker.

As a former magazine test editor I can tell you that testing kit is not as straight forward as you might think. Your number one problem with wave boards is when you sail in conditions which the board is not suited to. The number two problem is where you stick an 80kgs sailor on a board best suited to a 70kgs sailor. And so on.

It's always interesting to hear what people find about a board they test, but the best comments come from someone who has spent a lot of time on a board.

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RuaraidhK257 said..
In an hour in good conditions you can find out exactly how a board sails and what it feels like, and the board will tell you what style and stance you need to use for it just from the instant feedback it gives you when sailing. Sure different setups with change the board slightly for better or worse, but you can tell everything you need to know about a board in an hour of sailing it. (In those conditions... you may need to test a board for an hour each in onshore and down the line etc)

Could'nt disagree more K257 .... Lets take a world champions pro example - A couple of years ago I know KP was trying to jump on Braw's shapes to tap into his style - and just couldn't get them to work for him - their differences in bottom turn style completely overturned the boards intuitiveness .... I remember seeing a couple of vids of KP west side of maui , you could see his heavy front footed bottom turns was hitting flatter sections of rocker (that braws technique wasnt) and really hitting handbrakes mid / late bottom turn ... Braw's techniques from using these style boards for years had adjusted to a certain style of shaping - and he was unlocking that last 20% potential in that shape every wave - that also tapped into the extra speed of this faster rockerline ... If he hadnt watched Braw killing it on those boards the last year that shape would have been straight in the dumpster for him - citing it as nowhere near his current boards .... But thats just the thing - he needed to adjust techniques / and maybe set-up differently to Braw to get the same 'thoughtlessness'

Now take a random test - in an hour as you argue - with a sailors technique unique to him , then extrapolating it out as 'markers' of a boards ultimate performance - pretty flawed imo ...

yip - you can jump on a production board and test with stock fins for an hour - And think you've got a handle on the boards maximum potential - but until you try 20 diff fin configs and adjust it to allow YOUR TECHNIQUE to get the best out of it - you will never really know if its a step forward from yr current boards ....

Thank you very interested in the Goya 3, can't weight to hear your views on this board !!, cheers

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Basher said..

RuaraidhK257 said..
In an hour in good conditions you can find out exactly how a board sails and what it feels like, and the board will tell you what style and stance you need to use for it just from the instant feedback it gives you when sailing. Sure different setups with change the board slightly for better or worse, but you can tell everything you need to know about a board in an hour of sailing it. (In those conditions... you may need to test a board for an hour each in onshore and down the line etc)

Hmmmm.
In an hour you can get a very good first impression how a board sails - at that launch spot and in those conditions. If the launch spot is your regular sailing place then you get a direct comparison compared to boards you normally sail there.

However, if you take that board to another sailing location then you'll often reach very different conclusions. A different weight sailor will also reach a very different opinion.
I have several boards that work really well at my local break, but which don't perform so well when I take them elsewhere - perhaps exchanging cross-on and to cross-off conditions. If you go to a location with strong currents and a lot of white water you will often like boards with more floats and with a flatter rocker.

As a former magazine test editor I can tell you that testing kit is not as straight forward as you might think. Your number one problem with wave boards is when you sail in conditions which the board is not suited to. The number two problem is where you stick an 80kgs sailor on a board best suited to a 70kgs sailor. And so on.

It's always interesting to hear what people find about a board they test, but the best comments come from someone who has spent a lot of time on a board.

I agree that different conditions will affect a board's performance, but 9/10 times when I've tested a board in one spot and then used it at another, I haven't been surprised at the way it sails at that different spot.

Marc Par? sailed a new fanatic prototype stubby in windy onshore conditions, and then sailed it in perfect hollow DTL in Scarborough, and wasn't surprised with how it turned, because he knew about the shape of the board and the shape of the wave, and understood the interaction between them.

On one of his normal boards, he changed to a new MFC fin setup and got exactly the edge in turning he expected he would get.

I'm not saying a board CAN'T surprise you, but if you know enough about how board design should work, you shouldn't be surprised as often. Which is why your response surprises me Basher, because you know A LOT about kit design, more than me for sure! (Which isn't saying much, however, I'm not an expert at all!)

a board's performance will change as the conditions you sail it in change. But within a short period of sailing it, you shouldn't be massively surprised how it changes. I've changed fin setups before and got an extra 15-20% performance out of it, but I expected that to happen when I changed the fins. I've tried to sail a certain board with a really vertical style, but it wouldn't work that way; it was developed by sailors with a looser, less vertical style.

My 69l JP ultimate wave felt very controlled and locked down in pozo with a quad setup, and I found it worked very well if you sailed efficiently. I then sailed it in light wind down the line in Tiree, a completely different position, and I felt that I knew how the board would react, because of the time that I'd spent getting used to it, albeit in different conditions. I wasn't wrong.

i just don't get your point here Basher

K257 - thats really dangerous when you start assuming things in windsurfing - for example - Ive taken absolute 'golden fin sets' and set-ups - proven in a bunch of other boards to be 99% range of intuitiveness / non - niggleness / amazing set-ups - then plug them in another board - say different rocker profile / curve placement / tail kick or lack off etc - and suddenly NOT WORKING and defying expectations ... and Ive learnt time and again over and over you CANNOT extrapulate out general theories half the time ... it surprises me all the time how frequently I find my working theories turned upside down or fin set-ups NOT translating over to other shapes ... and sometimes conditions as well ....

Yip - you can do basic upgrades theorising like say .... going 1cm bigger on a set of similar rears will give more hold / drive ... etc ... thats for sure .... as you found with 1 fin adjustment ... but if there's bigger issues in built in the shape - small tweaks usually will not iron them out ... And for sure would say that about yr current brand board k257

Btw also - when I talk about needing to test a board with many different types of fin and fin placement - I also know that I only need a few waves on a particular set-up to know wether it is working great , or can be bettered .... In a few waves I would throw a bunch of different bottom & top turn styles to see if niggles can be ironed out , or need a fin re-adjustment ... usually I then try and enjoy the rest of the session even in the knowledge that one of my other set-ups will rip harder - and tweak in the garage ready for the next session ... Im certainly over running up and down the beach adjusting stuff ...!

btw , - if there IS EVER a case for random back to back testing with stock fins and shapes - it would be HERE imo - in the boards above - in this case ...because

A) boards are from same shaper - therefore box placement probably identical / rail tuck / rocker curve placement to a certain degree
B) There's such little range of movement in goya/quatro boxes - that variability in fin placement/experimentation reduced anyways
C) I would be super confident in KT's ability to put the boxes / settings in the perfect place in the 1st place ...
D) These 2 shapes are Kt's answer to 2 brands side-onshore / allround wave board .... interesting side by side SHAPE comparison
E) FIN SET COMPARISON - again KT's outputs for allround wavesailing - :- thruster vs quad fin .... but then a testers biased preference to either set-up they usually use might discolour max potential of each ...

So Baltic flip - lets hear your findings .... and also yr weight / ability / usual moves etc

Still waiting for utah s feedback another test comes from wind magazine Both boards seems to have similar characteristics Excellent in side on shore cond very capable in side off cond So versatile boards

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Basher said..

RuaraidhK257 said..
In an hour in good conditions you can find out exactly how a board sails and what it feels like, and the board will tell you what style and stance you need to use for it just from the instant feedback it gives you when sailing. Sure different setups with change the board slightly for better or worse, but you can tell everything you need to know about a board in an hour of sailing it. (In those conditions... you may need to test a board for an hour each in onshore and down the line etc)

Hmmmm. RuaraidhK257 said..

i just don't get your point here Basher

My point is that board testing is not straight forward and that we can't test a board over a short period and then give final judgment on how that board will perform for all people at all sailing locations.

It is also very common to find that a board loved by one guy is loathed by another. That is usually down to several things: 1) The size and float of the board in relation to the sailor trying to use it. 2) The ability of the sailor - to plane early, jump, and to wave ride. 3) Whether we prefer to jump or to turn, or want both. 4) Different boards suit different locations, due to wave size, currents, typical wind strengths, and chop.

I can usually look at boards on dry land, and take the measurements, sight the rocker line, and check the volume and I can then probably pick a board that will suit me, for sailing at my local spot. That board might then well work elsewhere too, if I'm lucky. For sure, I can also tune it up a bit by shifting the mast foot, straps, and by altering fin sets ups.
But I wouldn't expect my settings or board size choice to be transferable to another sailor.

We do find boards that become very popular by word of mouth and that's usually because they are of an all-round, plug and play design. For example, at my local beaches, half the people I know seem to be sailing Severne Dynos nowadays, mostly because this early-planing 'freewave' design is perfect for UK south coast conditions. The Fanatic Grip is another plug and play waveboard - if you get the right size for your weight.

But there are also boards which are very good at one thing in the right hands, whilst not suiting every body or every location. A lot of stubbies, for example, are great for turning on small waves, whilst not being soo good for early planing and jumping, and they are often too short or too wide in the tail for bigger waves.

So sometimes you take a favourite board elsewhere and it surprises you. Your long term view of a design can the be very different from your initial impression.
I recently took the 'wrong' board to Cape Town and I'm still kicking myself over that. I had two other boards I left at home, either of which would have got me a lot more time on the water.

I would love to see a stab in the dark contest with windsurfing board, with different shaper!

Oh yes a stab in the dark of windsurfing! I was thinking about it a few days ago too. But I guess the industry can t afford it...

Getting back to the main topic, I m also longing for the results of this match test between the custom 3 and the cube.

BTW regarding the scoop/rocker measurement from Planchemag, I m pretty sure the value written as if taken at100cm, has in fact been measured at 120cm.

Interesting to see the different approaches to rocker profile between brands , and evident when I picked up 1st example fanatic grip 2020 a few weeks back - so much flat in the rear (borne out by mag test measurements) - and then a big bit of curve right nr front strap , and then very big curve in front of mastfoot ... And examples 2) Quatro / goya much more in the smoother entry rocker arena , with more tail kick ...

Ive got boards that use both approaches (prod and custom) , and like them both , I particularly like the 1st example when oversizing on volume , OR running that rocker style lower volume boards AS THRUSTER .... And imo in my medium to small size boards and QUAD setups NEED that bit of kick and rocker profile 2) to feel something special ... Ive found a few cases of rocker profile 2 on oversize boards / big volumes for my weight - can feel really sticky under the mastfoot - start hitting dead stops on fast waves front footed style etc ... almost a handbrake effect at fast speeds aggressive bottom turns ...

Btw - when I talk of oversized boards , i'm talking 15+ more litres than my weight (say for me 90ltrs and bigger ) ... All the above may be very very different for heavier weight sailors than me ...

Ive also found on a number of boards - heavy tailkick boards (like a few customs I have ) in general DO NOT like swept back fins (need uprights ) for best performance (drive , hold , consistancy ) , and the flatter tailed boards work really good with swept back fins - thats a casual observation from many different boards / brands / customs Ive sailed ALOT to find best performance ...

Btw - is it my imagination - or do the new grips have much chunkier volume flow ... ? ... the 2020 - 92 litre looks WAY WAY WAY thicker than say 89 ltr of a few years ago ...

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Nicko29 said..
Oh yes a stab in the dark of windsurfing! I was thinking about it a few days ago too. But I guess the industry can t afford it...

Getting back to the main topic, I m also longing for the results of this match test between the custom 3 and the cube.

BTW regarding the scoop/rocker measurement from Planchemag, I m pretty sure the value written as if taken at100cm, has in fact been measured at 120cm.

My feeling looking at those rocker values , and numbers off my boards - that maybe actually it is taken at 100 cm .... as magazine says - but I might be wrong / you might be right ... some previous older boards like goya quad of 3-4 years ago , and triwaves etc - would have similar numbers to that based on 120 measurements ... so who knows ...

Woud be happy to read Utah's experience.

Hey Snapfigure .... what did they say about the dacurve in the test ?

2019 2020 the same Planning ability very good taking into consideration its character Off course does not go on planning like da bomb but it is very capable even in side on shore. It feels like a smaller board. It needs time for adaptation . Crisp feeling in the waves . It s more agile reactive and direct than average. Exceptional in fluid wave turns, rides with great control Can change the radius in the turn in a unique way . The top turn is extra loose radical Front or back foot .versatile board
plus Very radical board with fluid free style in riding great control top turns radical neg a little more direct

cheers Snapfigure .... Does anyone know if they changed the shape 2019 - to 2020 - seems unclear - 2019 looked very long (230 ish) , and lots of length in front of mastfoot - 2020 shape and blurb on website looks identical ... but the stats 2020 are all showing shorter 225's etc ... Did tabou reshape and just change length ? (keep rocker / channels etc identical) , or did they just show rocker measurement on deck instead of underneath and reduce stats that way (ie no actual shape change) ... really difficuilt to know if they changed the shape or not from their product release details ...

pretty sure they say da curve unchanged 2020 in 1st paragraph ....

so how poss ? They have just thrown the measure tape on the top instead of rocker ... !

2019 - 96 = 230 ,....... 2020 = 227
2019 - 88 = 230 .........2020 = 227
2019 - 82 = 228 .........2020 = 225
2019 - 76 - 226 ..........2020 = 223

Yes obviously as the first line of the windmag test above is: " Tabou didn t change her dacurve for the 2020 mill?sime"

Nice that a bit of movement has gotten into the thread (even if a bit off the topic)

@Utha thanks for the pictures, can you already say something about the driving characteristics?

@Snapfigure thanks for the reviews, the first magazine is very precise, very interesting

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BalticFlip said..
Nice that a bit of movement has gotten into the thread (even if a bit off the topic)

@Utha thanks for the pictures, can you already say something about the driving characteristics?

@Snapfigure thanks for the reviews, the first magazine is very precise, very interesting

I don't see the point of posting anything when looking back at this thread.
Why even have a section in a forum called "gear review" when there is
a couple of experts telling everyone else it is almost impossible to have an
opinion about a new board.

I'll message you BalticFlip.
I have had a total of 32 sessions now so for me i have a clear winner.

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Utah said..

BalticFlip said..
Nice that a bit of movement has gotten into the thread (even if a bit off the topic)

@Utha thanks for the pictures, can you already say something about the driving characteristics?

@Snapfigure thanks for the reviews, the first magazine is very precise, very interesting

I don't see the point of posting anything when looking back at this thread.
Why even have a section in a forum called "gear review" when there is
a couple of experts telling everyone else it is almost impossible to have an
opinion about a new board.

I'll message you BalticFlip.
I have had a total of 32 sessions now so for me i have a clear winner.

We would appreciate if you just share your review with forum members who are interested to hear, announcing you will share it with one person only is not cool.

Hello Utah !

Really interested in your review too.
Don't bother with the ? experts ? !

Philippe

Hi,

I'm following this thread as well with great interest. I would really appreciate your findings Utah!

Utah ... your now saying you've had 31 sessions so far - fair enough ..., - thats bit different from 3 casual sessions in mixed conditions don't you think .... - my 1st post mentioned a few weeks to give a good idea and , more importantly - do justice to a brand / team riders / all their effort )...

so don't be shy (or pedantic ? ) - give the other posters the info their craving ... ! .... Were your findings the same after 3 sessions as 31 is also the bigger interesting question ...

And reading back the thread - my point in a nutshell - which is fair to say imo - was - Ive unlocked various boards full potential after many many sessions (sometimes a year of sailing ) - and Im a pretty consistent sailor , and that apparantly flew in the face of a posters on here that said after 1 hour everything is sussed re total performance .... If that upsets you on a forum UTAH .... your easily upset ... as easily as the guy in point break Utah

C'mon Utah, spill the beans. I've been hanging out for your review!!! Not many people get to have that many sessions to compare boards - we rely on hearing real world feedback from regular human beings!!!

just give us what you've got - people will agree, disagree, whatever... your opinion is valid and worth sharing.
looking forward to it. Cheers