Cheetah or Lion for best bottom end? I'm 68 kg, 108l slalom board... I used to have an NCX 7.5 - awesome stability and top end, but no bottom end. Turbo 7.5 before, probably should have kept it, but it felt too big for the rocket wide 108.. And do I really need a slalom boom? (I have an x9 160-220 right now)

Both have great bottom end .as you can belly them both out .the cheetah feels lighter...i prefer the 7,0 cheetah in ocean .and 8.5 for the lightness .
but tend to use my 7,5 lion FOR Flatter water...
the lion has better bottom end ..being a twin cam .
your boom will be fine.both bullet proof sails.

Mastbender, yr 8.5 lion. Is that lime green n blue? Looks sik! Ive got 9.5lion yellow n red. As ezzy said colours would be red n yellow or blue n yellow??? So now theyve gone lime green. ..... Great sail anyway. Has made the 10kt days so much fun. Im Planing before most hit the water.

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olskool said..
Mastbender, yr 8.5 lion. Is that lime green n blue? Looks sik! Ive got 9.5lion yellow n red. As ezzy said colours would be red n yellow or blue n yellow??? So now theyve gone lime green. ..... Great sail anyway. Has made the 10kt days so much fun. Im Planing before most hit the water.

Anything with lime green on it it so much faster olskool.

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Faff said..
Cheetah or Lion for best bottom end? I'm 68 kg, 108l slalom board... I used to have an NCX 7.5 - awesome stability and top end, but no bottom end. Turbo 7.5 before, probably should have kept it, but it felt too big for the rocket wide 108.. And do I really need a slalom boom? (I have an x9 160-220 right now)

I forgot to say the 7.5 will be perfect for the 108 wide rocket .heres a shot of my 2016-17 ..with max down haul .and it still holds a nice grunty shape ..I tend to med to max down haul ,then just play around with the outhaul ..it very close to a race sail its not funny ,but easier to use and rig . ..I have had lots of warps ..I love it when your flying a long and the top of the sail is just flapping in the breeze doing its job ...




8.5 cheetah ..
Still nice shape ..it s just me but I always go no cam in bigger sails ...easier to water start and up haul ..
they still have great stability ...when over powered ..

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Tardy said..

Faff said..
Cheetah or Lion for best bottom end? I'm 68 kg, 108l slalom board... I used to have an NCX 7.5 - awesome stability and top end, but no bottom end. Turbo 7.5 before, probably should have kept it, but it felt too big for the rocket wide 108.. And do I really need a slalom boom? (I have an x9 160-220 right now)

I forgot to say the 7.5 will be perfect for the 108 wide rocket .heres a shot of my 2016-17 ..with max down haul .and it still holds a nice grunty shape ..I tend to med to max down haul ,then just play around with the outhaul ..it very close to a race sail its not funny ,but easier to use and rig . ..I have had lots of warps ..I love it when your flying a long and the top of the sail is just flapping in the breeze doing its job ...




8.5 cheetah ..
Still nice shape ..it s just me but I always go no cam in bigger sails ...easier to water start and up haul ..
they still have great stability ...when over powered ..

The Rocket Wide is long gone. Have a 108L (69 wide) slalom board. I know a couple of guys with Ezzies - one with a Lion 7.0, the other with a Cheetah 7.0. Both middle weights with free race boards about 120L. The Lion guy said he probably should have bought a Cheetah.

I have a 7.0 Gator loaner as a stop gap for now. Truth be told I'm wondering if it's worth sticking with big gear. After using a 5.3 as my biggest for the whole season (couldn't remember when I'd last used my 7.5 NCX, so sold it and the Rocket Wide), using the 7.0 m was a bit of a shock (460 Gorilla RDM mast + 160-220 X9). Rigging it with a Norh Platinum Aero 140-190 boom ("the lightest boom on earth!") made things better. IOTW, big boards don't bother me (even as the slalom board is hard to gybe), big rigs do... So I'm after the lightest setup that will get me going in 13-17... 17-18 knots is when everybody planes on anything, and I can be on my 5.3... Maybe kiting foiling is the answer for light airs.

Sounds like the 7.0 cheetah for you... if you buy one ..the lion is heavier to use .
the gator is a pretty good sail ...but it won't have the top end of the cheetah ..
i reckon a 7.0 for you ..at your weight you should get going in 14 knots and still a light sail .and better for your 109.

i have no option using big sails at 98 kgs ..I wish my main sail was a 5.3 ...it's like a flannel for me .

good luck .

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Tardy said..
Sounds like the 7.0 cheetah for you... if you buy one ..the lion is heavier to use .
the gator is a pretty good sail ...but it won't have the top end of the cheetah ..
i reckon a 7.0 for you ..at your weight you should get going in 14 knots and still a light sail .and better for your 109.

i have no option using big sails at 98 kgs ..I wish my main sail was a 5.3 ...it's like a flannel for me .

good luck .

Would you think there'd be much in it between the Cheetah and the Gator for early planing? I've been told that the Gator is not a "serious sail" i.e. too soft, yet all I care about is the bottom end. In theory, softer sails are easier to pump and get going earlier, but since they don't maintain foil shape, they don't fly through the lulls as well, don't handle gusts... But I don't think I'll be breaking any records where I sail anyway (way too bumpy). BTW, I just looked at the specs and Ezzy is very competitive with Severne for weight.

to tell the truth its been a while since I've used a gator ..so i couldn't give a honest opinion ...

but i totally agree with the theory of soft sails pumping up better ...thats why i also choose the cheetah in the bigger sizes ..what i look for
then is stability ..and I'VE Thrown a few emails to David Ezzy ...and he talks about stability all the time ..and knows his stuff ..Battens play a big part too, and how the sail meets the mast around the luff pocket ...rotation ,out haul tension .ect..I've had some terrible no-cam sails ..then i brought a 2007 se ,2009 se wave ..thought that was ok .then a cheetah in 2015, brought a 6.5 cheetah ..it blew my mind ...fast ,great on and off power through transitions ..I was using a naish 7.1 at the time ...sold it and brought a 7.0 cheetah as well .I know thats a bit close ...but i just had to have a 7,0 ...
I also have bumps ...thats why a no cam cheetah would be the better sail for you ..you will get great top end and bottom end ..but also great stability in gusts ...you don't see many second hand cheetahs for sail ...everyone just hangs onto them ..their a safe beat.

there are 2 words i can use to describe the cheetah ..smooth and fast .

I sail Ezzy. Usually run 9.5 lion2018 on my RB. Its a powerful sail well up to the task of propelling my RB. About 20kts i change down to 8m cheetah. Most noticable thing is weight reduction. WOW!!! 8m Cheetah on ezzy rdm is soooooo light compared to big lion. Nice grunt. I find the cheetah not lacking in grunt either. Medium DH n bag it on light wind days n its got plenty of grunt. Ezzy spec boom 213. Ive reduced it to 210 n its still balanced but got plenty of go. Couldnt plane on shortboard at 213. Dropped to 210 n im planing when others are sookin on the beach. Ive just picked up 7.5 lion. Yet to sail this critter. But have no doubt itll be upto propelling my 105kg. TARDY,No LIME GREEN!!!! WTF???? (its blue n red) WILL SEE HOW IT PERFORMS DUDE!!!!

2015 7.5m Lion. Got a chance to sail it last week. 18-25kts. Great sail easy to rig. Plenty of grunt.Easily tuned. Much much lighter than the 9.5m Lion. Stoked. It may make my 8m cheetah obsolete. Time will tell.

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olskool said..
2015 7.5m Lion. Got a chance to sail it last week. 18-25kts. Great sail easy to rig. Plenty of grunt.Easily tuned. Much much lighter than the 9.5m Lion. Stoked. It may make my 8m cheetah obsolete. Time will tell.

hey andrew check no2 and 3 batten tension looks a bit loose towards the front, photo shows a depression and some wrinkles, might be the light.

Hi Greg, that pic is of first rig up. Ezzy rdm.Luff tube has been repaired. I see where you are looking.Will check battens on next rig up. Hopefully 2moro arvo.

you will appreciate the cheetah on the chopper days ..all you need now is a 6.5
great size for the misses ...

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Tardy said..
you will appreciate the cheetah on the chopper days ..all you need now is a 6.5
great size for the misses ...

Hey mate, so Lion 7.5 n 9.5. Cheetah 8.0 n still to find 6.5? Lime green of course What mast for 6.5m cheetah 430?

430 ....its bliss ...my favourite combo 6.5 on a 430 ......you going for a lion or a cheetah ???

at that wind strength it starts to get choppy ...cheetah ....jumps better ..even on a long board ..it hurts coming down though ..tail first is the go ...I have the 2016-17 cheetah, its that smooth ,like riding in a limo ..beautifully balanced sail . go luck finding a lime green one

your gonna have a great quiver once you find one .

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Faff said..

Tardy said..
Sounds like the 7.0 cheetah for you... if you buy one ..the lion is heavier to use .
the gator is a pretty good sail ...but it won't have the top end of the cheetah ..
i reckon a 7.0 for you ..at your weight you should get going in 14 knots and still a light sail .and better for your 109.

i have no option using big sails at 98 kgs ..I wish my main sail was a 5.3 ...it's like a flannel for me .

good luck .

Would you think there'd be much in it between the Cheetah and the Gator for early planing? I've been told that the Gator is not a "serious sail" i.e. too soft, yet all I care about is the bottom end. In theory, softer sails are easier to pump and get going earlier, but since they don't maintain foil shape, they don't fly through the lulls as well, don't handle gusts... But I don't think I'll be breaking any records where I sail anyway (way too bumpy). BTW, I just looked at the specs and Ezzy is very competitive with Severne for weight.

I have a 6.5m Gator 2017 model and a 6.5m cheetah, 2016 model.
The cheetah feels softer than the Gator. The gator is softer than an NCX but its not a soft sail in my opinion. When you view video of the two sails at speed the Cheetah is moving around more than the gator.
The cheetah has more profile, and most likely has the edge for low end power, but power is hard to quantify, as they do the work with a completely different feel in the hands. The ezzy gives plenty of feedback in the hands, the Gator feel like a feather, with no physical pulling sensation at any wind speed. If you like the back hand to fight you a bit then dont get a Gator. Top end and overpowered i would pick the Gator every time. People will disagree but i feel the Gator is faster for me, less tiring, and better in choppy water conditions. Because of the different feel of the two sails I use the Gator for the short board, and the ezzy for cruising on my Sup, as it gives better feedback in low winds. As we all know you Cant beat Ezzy for quality construction.
Iv'e owed 9.5M Lion & 8.5M cheetahs and both are great sails but i have come to the conclusion that for me at 75KG big sails don't add much extra wind range, but board & fin selection does. But that's another subject.

fair comments Mcsailing .the new Gators look fantastic ...it would of been my next choice .

i wish i didn't have to use big sail ...but at 98 kg ...i have no option .

Gator and Cheetah vastly different sails, sailed both, the Gator is a freeride bump/jump/crossover , even waves in the smaller sizes.
It's not a blasting fast no cam like the Cheetah, very different sails, the NCX is the direct comparison sail, I would say the NCX is 'potentially' a little more quicker at the 'very top end' faster, but is doesn't have the bottom end, range, or equivalent build quality, again owned sailed both.

Used my Gator 7.0 in 22 knots (lotsa DH and OH + lower clew) with my slalom board in really choppy water. Only in the biggest gusts did it get backhanded. The NCX would've probably been even more stable, but I think the soft X-ply makes the Gator smoother over chop.

Cats out of the bag
Looks much better in real life than on the website!

The Big Cat has been around for awhile. Rigged it so many times the cams have worn substantial grooves in the mast Anyone else had this issue?
Use Dh mostly at medium n OA.

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olskool said..
The Big Cat has been around for awhile. Rigged it so many times the cams have worn substantial grooves in the mast Anyone else had this issue?
Use Dh mostly at medium n OA.

its the fine sand you got down there, gets everywhere .you could put in the next size baton pocket to take some of the tension of the cams,also add a sacrificial layer of epoxy to cam areas on the mast .i am still getting sand out of my sails

yeah heavy mast wear doesn't sound right, are you using the ezzy RDM?
This one rigged straight out of the bag no adjustments or cam setting up required, perfect first take, exactly as per printed spec medium set.
Iv'e owned a smaller lion once before, the cams and rotation are not that tight on the Ezzy's (compared to regular cam/race sails) quite a soft rotation/camber feel. I haven't sailed this yet to really test the rotation but doesn't feel like it will be an issue.

Jonesy, no its not the correct 490 mast. Its probably a bit stiffer. Ive rigged n set cams per sdm method for the 9.5m. Seems to set ok, good range but is chewing the mast. Maybe it is the sand as Greg says. The boom attachment area is showing high wear as well. I make sure there is no sand on boom head bearing pads when assembling.

9.5 lost me there thought that was date stamp! :)
I have no idea about sails of that size, but your comment below makes it sound like maybe its just a mast that doesn't have a decent outer skin layer? 'The boom attachment area is showing high wear as well , '

I have an ezzy mast with a trillion miles on it and its now 5+ years old, had both the streamlined type boom heads and regular and no sign of wear at all, and i don't ever bother to check for sand. I'm no mast construction expert but pretty sure the reason the Ezzy's & No Limits (some other brands too?) stop at around the 91% carbon content is because the outer layer is a heavier duty construction design to handle more wear and tear. Some mast brands wrap a kevlar layer around the boom section for the same reason.

Yep, best masts in the damn universe.

Any additional feedback of the 9.5 Lion?

Currently thinking in getting one, for my 122 RRD v9 and 48 Gregor Fin.

I've got a AL360 190-245, do you think I'll need a larger boom?

thanks

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Siroco said..
Any additional feedback of the 9.5 Lion?

Currently thinking in getting one, for my 122 RRD v9 and 48 Gregor Fin.

I've got a AL360 190-245, do you think I'll need a larger boom?

thanks

Short story....
Dissapointed in durability

I've been a fanboy of the Ezzy sails. Especially the lions.

Ive had various models from the original infinities through to gen 2

the secondhand infinities were bullet proof

my all my lions gen1 developed holes in the interface between the luff pocket and window 7.5, 8.5 and 9.5

There was a slight change in the design between the infinities and the lions in this area

Ezzy and local importer were responsive and sorted me out with gen 2 lions

Now they are developing the same damage. This is despite me changing my sail abusive tactics. I use to leave them rigged when away for school holidays.

With the second set I paid a lot more attention to care of the sails. Popping cams dropping downhaul and outhaul tensions .. derigging etc.

You can imagine the disappointment to see the holes begin to appear again in my 9.5 and 8.5. I've stopped using them while I wait to get them repaired


i have had discussion with Ezzy when the original problem occurred- I was impressed with support I received locally and internationally to get it sorted .. I'm left thinking it's me and how I use the sails???

lately I've started using severne overdrives and Naish sl sails. They haven't developed any holes ... time will tell

Siroco,the big Lion is a great sail. For where i sail 9.5 is my most rigged. Plenty of low down grunt & im able to hold it just over 20kts (im 100kg). Planing at 10-12kts on 150litre board. 9.5m boom measures 247cm. I use adjustable outhaul n leave boom at 250. Really only crank it right out if im way over powered n didnt bring a smaller sail. Have found DH should be pulled down further than recommended for my non Ezzy sdm. Your 245cm boom may be suitable for light to medium settings. As said rarely do i crank it to 247cm.