I guess we all saw what was going in today. What the hell can we do to beat this beaurocratic nightmare that has allowed the Jet ski concession to impede on our sailing area.
I've have just shot off an email to greg.l.turner@msq.qld.gov.au and I would suggest that as many of you who are concerned do the same or we will lose something that is precious to all who have sailed on the Gold Coast.

I was just about to post to say same and ask for that email.

Agreed, it's gone from annoying with the jetboats to something potentially very dangerous. Council might want to consider if they carry any blame for accidents after moving tourists on jet skis, with no experience at all, into the middle of a channel, especially when one killed themselves a few months back after crashing into the anchor chain of a parked boat.

Hey Panda if you shoot off an email could you show em the spot on Google earth map. I'm not sure how to do it.

greg.l.turner@msq.qld.gov.au

Who is this person? What's his position/role in government so that I can address him properly in the text of my email?

This arvo I asked the guy on the speed boat, what the F was he thinking. AND actually he was fairly apologetic about the Jetskis and markers. He even said that they would be removed "soon" as the whole thing was an "inconvenience to everyone". He also said something about after the accident they were "forced" there.

BUT i won't know if this is Bull**** or not for a couple of days (i was giving him the evil eye though (and a non planning evil eye at that)).

Hey Evilpanda can you scribble up the red line of the jet boat better than that?

hi guys, i got some snaps today that may help.

unfortunately i didn't have the camera out when the jetskis were very close to the windsurfers.



this one is of the jet boat. says it all really.




(edit***** - can someone pm me Jerry's email addy? he asked me to send them through to him but the address was gone from my vacant head by the time i got home.)

Ta Da?
(Not the non-planing evil eye, it's too powerful)



Plus my email. Any suggestions before I send (tomorrow night after work, sleepy)?

_____________________

Mr Turner,

I was given your email address by a colleague in relation to the new jet ski hire area at Southport. This is another death about to happen very soon.

I have attached a (poor) diagram of the area.
- Note the jetboat rides that come through at around 80Km/h doing spins and such, the red line.
- The blue line represents the path that about 30 windsurfers take on a good day, at about 50km/h, some inexperienced and a bit wobbly. Myself included
- The red area in the middle of it all is where tourists with absolutely no water vessel experience are going to be working off their hangovers on hired jet skis, doing about 60Km/h.

It being a channel there is of course also some traffic from small water craft, almost always well behaved.
I haven't included it but sometimes a sea plane lands there too.

My/our concern is the new jet ski hire area in the middle of the channel.

I was windsurfing there today and a group of us (although I was only told of this conversation) spoke to the operator who was "...fairly apologetic about the Jetskis and markers. He even said that they would be removed "soon" as the whole thing was an "inconvenience to everyone". He also said something about after the accident they were "forced" there."

Mr Turner I recommend you go down on a breezy day, especially at low tide, and observe first hand how this many water craft at high speeds have been forced into an area in most parts no more than 25m wide. Over summer I will be amazed if nobody is hurt, especially the way some of the jet boats drive only metres away from tourists on hired jet skis.

I recommend you simply have the jet ski hire moved about 200m south. Right now they are in the middle of a channel.

Thanks for your time Mr Turner. As you may soon notice there are quite a few of us who find this new location completely ridiculous and utterly dangerous. You may want to consider who might be liable for any deaths or injuries resulting from this extremely poor decision.

PS. A few months back I gave directions to a young Indian looking couple on their honeymoon to the jet ski hire company at Labrador. I assume it was the same couple that crashed.

--
Regards,
Michael Nitschke (<- Now you know.)

i think the google map should also include the area to the north of the bank.

the area we sail in the SE winds.

if a complaint is going to be lodged i would suggest outlining the entire area we sail in otherwise we may find some of the areas being branded off limits to us.

the area to the north is an issue with the jet boat only.

guys, i stared with disbelief as i watched those jetboats and skis show disregard to others safety.

i will be onto the maritime safety officer tomorrow, before something tragic happens. even commercial vessels have to observe safety regulations and those jets are breaking every rule in the book.

cheers EvilPanda, maybe have the blue line going straight thru the middle of the Jet Ski area (i did a couple of times today)?

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Mistral Nick said...

I guess we all saw what was going in today. What the hell can we do to beat this beaurocratic nightmare that has allowed the Jet ski concession to impede on our sailing area.
I've have just shot off an email to greg.l.turner@msq.qld.gov.au and I would suggest that as many of you who are concerned do the same or we will lose something that is precious to all who have sailed on the Gold Coast.

Nick you are right. We are running the risk of losing the best windsurfing area left on the Broadwater. Once they establish a business there, money will talk over a couple of weird arse looking windsurfers that only show up when its windy. The area is way too busy already and due to the build up of sand and the introduction of these new business, it is getting smaller real quick. Combine this with the building of the new park and it is possibly just easier for the council to group us in with kitesurfers (which sound dangerous) or something and ban us all.

here's a snippet from maritime safety's websight.

The following restrictions apply throughout Queensland whether signs are present or not.

A speed limit of six knots:
within 30 m of
boats anchored, moored to the shore or aground
a jetty, wharf, pontoon or boat ramp



within 30 m of people in the water


within 60 m of people in the water when operating a personal watercraft


in harbours and marinas

I too drove around and spoke with the jet ski hire company owner and to be honest found him very approachable.
He use to hire about 500mtrs south from the spot he is now, based on a pontoon in the middle there and actually i remeber it now, it was no problem down there oppersite Australia Fair.
He isnt happy either as he was forced to move there and told me he is exactly were the gps cordinate he was give.
He said he was going to see the marine people also today, as he was aware of the danagers.
It certainly isnt good for his business as well as our sailing especially in a northerly.

the goldcoast would have to be redneck capital of australia when it comes to safety, whether it road or water

it's amazing how jet boats, sea planes, jet skis, cruisers, fishos, yachts, windsurfer / kiter all manage to fit into 1km squared area without regular accidents it's like the marine version of driving in china where everyone drives anywhere in any direction at any speed, and signs mean nothing


toots will fixem up, the man stops for no one and nothing, about the only time u see mast high waves on the broadwater

this sucks. might I suggest a small portable air horn to scare the f@#*ers ?

weak as p*ss marine authority.

Have a look at Toot's photo and that boat/shed in the background has probably been there years (imagine that going out the seaway to empty its tanks). How many boats are leaving sewerage in the Broadwater today alone?

all right under the noses of the weak as p*ss authority! (non planning evil eye again )

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da vecta said...

weak as p*ss marine authority.

Have a look at Toot's photo and that boat/shed in the background has probably been there years (imagine that going out the seaway to empty its tanks). How many boats are leaving sewerage in the Broadwater today alone?

all right under the noses of the weak as p*ss authority! (non planning evil eye again )

most states have free holding tank pump out facilities. Not QLD.....

Guys, those of you who have taken photos it would probably be a good idea to email them here: greg.l.turner@msq.qld.gov.au
They are always asking for evidence of misdemeanors. I think that somehow they do not believe it to be a problem ie capitalism rules on the Gold Coast
I would not like to see a tragedy occur but the way it's going it's bound to happen.
Perhaps letters to the Gold Coast Sun would be a good idea.
Sailboarders are gernerally a laid back group and that's our problem. We need to get militant.

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Mistral Nick said...


...Sailboarders are gernerally a laid back group and that's our problem. We need to get militant.

I'll keep wearing my DaKine camouflage harness, and I'm sharpening my fins.

HI Guys,

I think we need to clarify the posts? what have MSQ asked for? who has spoken with them and what was said?

if we all know what has been said then we can approach this matter on the same page.

i had a look on the qld gov website.

this is what it says for boats.

item 1..... The following restrictions apply throughout Queensland whether signs are present or not.
A speed limit of six knots:
within 30 m of
boats anchored, moored to the shore or aground
a jetty, wharf, pontoon or boat ramp
within 30 m of people in the water
within 60 m of people in the water when operating a personal watercraft
in harbours and marinas.
Even at slow speeds your boat will create a wash. Look behind at your wash and be aware of the impact this can have on other boats, people in the water or the shore. Travelling at the speed shown on a speed restriction sign does not guarantee you are not creating excessive wash.

When navigating near, in or through a mooring area drive slowly and keep wash to a minimum and keep a lookout for people in the water, small dinghies and trailing ropes.

item 2....... for pwc (jetskis) it says. http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Personal_watercraft/

The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea* require that you consider the density of traffic in the area to determine a safe speed. The following distances must be adhered to, or reduce speed to six knots, within:
60 m of people in the water
60 m of anchored or moored boats, structures, boat ramps, jetties or pontoons
60 m of the shore
60 m of the boundary of a bathing reserve.
Exceptions apply to six knots within 60 m of the shore under the following conditions:

The waterway is less than 120 m wide, and
The personal watercraft operator is operating the personal watercraft in as close as practicable to a straight line to transit the area.
The personal watercraft operator stays as close as is practicable to the centre of the waterway or a marked channel.
The personal watercraft is being used in waterskiing/towing.
In coastal waters, freestyling or wave jumping is restricted to:
Outside 200 m of the shore if dwellings are within 100 m of the shoreline, and are in the vicinity of the waters where the personal watercraft is operating. Coastal waters do not include dams and inland waters.

sitting above all of this is the international regulations that state all craft must avoid collision. unfortunately as a windsurfer is a "boat" other than giving way to sailcraft there are no real rules i can see that require the jetski or jet boat to keep away from us. except of course if we are swimming in the water or mored/anchored. then the usual slow down rules apply.

a windsurfer is a non-motorised boat.

here is the guff on them.... www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebb873455507917/Pdf_non_motorised_brochure_jun06.pdf

so as windsurfers we have to comply with item 1 above...

i also found a map that indicates new 6 knot zones on the broadwater that were introduced in july this year. this could be why the jetskis have been moved.
www.msq.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb6a5b0d6bf5107/Pdf_gc_speed_map9_broadwater.pdf

the area we all windsurf in has a 40 knot speed limit.

i think it's important to understand the rules when speaking with MSQ. don't get me wrong i am certainly not in favour of the new jetski location or the jet boats and would very much like to see them both move.

but.... i have had many dealings with MSQ while organising windsurfing events from the goldy to bundaberg and have found all of the MSQ branches to be very very helpfull and supportive of windsurfing. i don't think it is a good idea to stick it to msq. that may backfire in a big way and ultimately they are only enforcing the legislation.

definately we should lodge concerns with MSQ. this may promt them to move the jetski hire further south as we all think should happen. it may be simply that MSQ located the jetskis there not realising the impact this would have on us. and yes i know. we will end up gybing straight through the area at the end of the run. very very unsafe.

ok,

i've done a lot of reading with this one and i think the 2 important points above are boat wash and giving way to sail craft.

with regards boat wash, the boating rules say.

"Even at slow speeds your boat will create a wash. Look behind at your wash and be aware of the impact this can have on other boats, people in the water or the shore. Travelling at the speed shown on a speed restriction sign does not guarantee you are not creating excessive wash."

and the pwc rules say.

"Distance and speed
It is important you do not exceed set speed limits for your safety, and that of everyone else using the water. Do not travel at speeds where your wash can cause damage to the shoreline, other boats or injury to others."

haircuts photo and my photo show how big the wash is on the jet boat and i think everyone is fairly certain giving way and wash is the potential problem with the jetskis.

personally i've had plenty of issues with the wash from the jetboat in the past.

these may be the best items to raise with MSQ as well as pandas comments on the location within the channel.

actually, compared to the cruisers, the freestyling type jet boats really don't create much of a wake, it's the parasailing jet boats that have a decent sized wake, but at least they drive in a straight line and it's not so bad if they pass u fairly close as you know where they are going most of the time - except when you want to zip across behind them then realise at the last second that they are towing half a dozen jet skiis

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Haircut said...

actually, compared to the cruisers, the freestyling type jet boats really don't create much of a wake, it's the parasailing jet boats that have a decent sized wake, but at least they drive in a straight line and it's not so bad if they pass u fairly close as you know where they are going most of the time - except when you want to zip across behind them then realise at the last second that they are towing half a dozen jet skiis

i guess it depends on whether you want to forward loop on purpuse or not........ hehe


i guess my point was that for those that want to talk to msq they may be better outlining how they see the law being broken. they would need to explain what particular elements make the activities unsafe.

If we restrict others use of the Broadwater
We may find those in power restricting us

Yes its tricky, most windsurfers exceed the speed limit all the time, you can bet there are other forums by fishermen and jet ski users giving us some stick, again yesterday was a problem,dangerous i know but i just went through them and made it difficult.
I have been sailing there seven years and i know"we were there first" isnt a real case but we were!

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chairman said...

If we restrict others use of the Broadwater
We may find those in power restricting us

i reckon its only a matter of time too. These guys use the Broadwater 7 days a week, we only turn up when its windy (lately about once a month!). For them its a business, for us its just a bit of fun.

to keep our spot, we do need to work together and let the authorities know what we do and what we want and where on the Broadwater.

In a couple of years Narrow Neck will have to be the new train (oh i forgot, that's concreted off to locals for 3 months of the year!)

i say Chairman run for Mayor!

Only if Sarah Palins little sister
will be my vice

I do not think MSQ.QLD are trying to stick it up us. I believe that they may try to compromise.
The problem is that we are only there when it's windy, businesses are there daily.
Check out the reply from Greg Turner below and perhaps the most knowledgeable and eloquent of us should take up the offer.

Dear Nick

Thanks for your comments and concerns regarding the situation with the
commercial jet ski area near the Olympic Pool channel. To get a better
understanding of your concerns, which I assume are more relevant when the
wind blows from a certain direction and at a certain speed, I invite you to
visit the location with myself and other officers from MSQ in the agency's
vessel at anytime suitable to you.

As you would be aware we (MSQ) are interested in the safety of all waterway
users and the commercial interests of industry. We have a similar interest
in the operation of unpowered craft on the local waterways and the
interaction between other powered craft. When a decision is made to locate
a particular activity over an area of waterway it is considered with
regards to marine safety. Now if there are other parameters that suggest
the area is not safe (wind direction, wind strength) then we will consider
moving the activity to another location. In this instance we have made an
effort to locate the business (jet ski hire) out of the main channels and
at a location that allows sufficient depth of water to operate the skis.

Now that the wind will blow from the north for the next few months these
locations seem to be of concern to windsurfers (only when the wind blows
too I might add!) but as with the commercial guys, your concerns along with
theirs, will need addressing to find compromise. Commercial interests (all
local people too) will always be considered as marine safety legislation
seeks to enable the effectiveness and efficiency of the marine industry.
In saying this, we would also seek to ensure the safety and continued
enjoyment of the passive craft users is maintained where it has been for
decades.

In closing, as you would appreciate being in government yourself, decisions
are not made by individuals on a whim and "people fairly new to the
position" do not get a free reign to make decisions. All decisions are
made by the local officers (all with many years of experience) and the "new
guy" has been with MSQ (on the PWC enforcement team) and the Queensland
Boating and Fisheries Patrol (as a local patrol officer) for many years.

Again, I would ask that you make time available to come out on the vessel
to look at the issue in an attempt to resolve the situation as it exists.
You have brought the issue to my attention and I will seek to resolve the
matter, I certainly don't need the entire Gold Coast windsurfing fraternity
writing emails to me! To arrange a suitable time to visit the area by
vessel, ring me at the office on 5539 7300.

Regards

Greg Turner

I'm keen to go, do I have a seconder?

(Unless you would like to Mistral Nick)

well done Nick! nice work. that's a great response from MSQ

if you guys have the numbers covered i'll stay out of it from here and also second you Da Vecta.

but if you need more support I'll also throw my hat in to go aswell. i don't think we should all turn up in numbers but I've had a little bit of experience with these matters. (that may not help though)

i've also been on the other end of the stick. when i ran the speed event at burrum heads earlier this year, one of the windsurfing QLD committee members contacted MSQ bundaberg to express "safety concerns" with my event. dealing with the outcomes of that helped me understand a little of what MSQ are trying to achieve and gave me a better understanding of the regulations involved.

i do think it is important however to outine the entire area we use including the area when the SE winds blow. maybe a gps track over the top of google earth would help.