I am starting this topic to see which clubs Sailboarders in Brisbane want to use for course racing next year. It will be more fun everyone to sail against other sailboards rather than just boats.

At the moment RQYS is the best option for Brisbane sailors because of their large Techno and RSX fleet. The cost is an issue for some but the service and the facility are great.

Since the exit of RSX from the olympics, there may be a drift away from one design back to formula and raceboard. YA support for the class may also be reduced. Maybe the RSX/techno fleet would be interested in moving?

Darling Point Sailing Squadron run windward return courses for their skiffs as well as triangle for their other boats pretty much every Sunday. There is no reason why they would not be an alternative if a significant number of people want to sail there. DPSS are one of the cheapest clubs around for membership fees and have a nice facility.

Bayside Sailboard club have indicated some interest in doing course racing but it is not their main priority and they don't have the capacity to run Weekly events.

Please state your preference or add some options.

I would lean towards Darling Point...
A couple of reasons..
1) Cost of Membership - RQ is $250 to nominate to become a member, $30 for gate tag, then $800 per per year (including the first year). Makes it hard to budget joining even tho their facilities are great.

2) Access to water. Darling point probable have the easiest access to water for launching and getting back from the bay without having to wade through mud to get to a deep enough spot - or trying to tack back up through the marina to RQ..

My thoughts...

Dave
NZL46.com

Tony, this is a really good initiative. I've just checked the DPSS website and it looks a really good option. It has the same access to Waterloo bay as RQYS at a fraction of the cost.

If we can bring together the sailboard course racing communitee under one club then we have the opportunity to possibly attract to the club future Australian and Oceanic for raceboard, formula, Techno and RSX disciplines.

Count me in.

The clubs capicity is totally dependent on the energy of the members , if the members are keen enough to get involved with events, racing could happen every week. I personally feel that just having longboards would be too restrictive and it would be better to run longboards and formula. There is just not the access to used and new gear for longboards to flourish , where if you allow formula as well there is far more option in new and used gear .

You could maybe start the boards together and run diffrent courses to suit the diffrent aspects of the boards.

the club will be having its agm soon , if you are keen to get invloved send them an email at info@baysidesailboards.com.au

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tonymatta said...

I am starting this topic to see which clubs Sailboarders in Brisbane want to use for course racing next year. It will be more fun everyone to sail against other sailboards rather than just boats.

At the moment RQYS is the best option for Brisbane sailors because of their large Techno and RSX fleet. The cost is an issue for some but the service and the facility are great.

Since the exit of RSX from the olympics, there may be a drift away from one design back to formula and raceboard. YA support for the class may also be reduced. Maybe the RSX/techno fleet would be interested in moving?

Darling Point Sailing Squadron run windward return courses for their skiffs as well as triangle for their other boats pretty much every Sunday. There is no reason why they would not be an alternative if a significant number of people want to sail there. DPSS are one of the cheapest clubs around for membership fees and have a nice facility.

Bayside Sailboard club have indicated some interest in doing course racing but it is not their main priority and they don't have the capacity to run Weekly events.

Please state your preference or add some options.

If RSX fades away I will sail raceboard and/or Formula, just bought my son a techno so I will follow the techno fleet. Fees at RQYS were due beginning of this month so timing of this initiative may not be great for people that have already paid for the coming year.

I hope I am not speaking out of school here because the final decision on this comes down to the committee members of each club but Simon's point is very true and the individual clubs can expand in their offerings at will as long as individuals get involved and organise the events.

At present the people involved in the Bayside club are interested in Slalom but there is no reason one of the course racers can't become a committee member and start driving the course racing and utilise all of the clubs existing infrastructure, same goes with wave sailing etc.

Personally I would love to see the Windsurfing Clubs expand and gain strength rather than the Yacht clubs who already have a strong patronage.

Many years ago I sailed regularly in a raceboard division with the lake Illawarra Yacht Club and at Marmong Point Sailing Club. Other classes of sailing boat can maintain their class distingsion within a sailing club. Clubing different sailing classes together pools the available resources.

I.E as Simon says, having a seperate windsurfing club relies too much on the energy of the members. Why can't the Bayside Sailboard club become part of a larger sailing club and utilise the colective resources.

The advantage for racing (either course, slalom, GPS) at an established sailing club like Darling Point is that the club comes with an established sailing calander, support boats, volanteers for managing racing and great on shore facilities.

Good on you Tony.

I'm inclined towards RQYS for the following reasons:

1. Large existing fleet of dinghies. Racing against other boards is nice, but I've always sailed in mixed fleets so I'm just as happy to race the longboard against 29ers and the like. I'm kind of assuming that there won't be fleets of 20-30 raceboards anytime soon.
Note that this isn't as good for formula, which due to the vastly different performance curve and sailing angles doesn't mix so well with other boats, especially on a tight course. But it can work on the big courses the cats use.

2. Professionally run. Yes, I'm with the takers rather than the givers. But I've gotta be honest, I go down to the bay to sail, not to sweep the clubhouse or drive the rescue boat. I greatly appreciate the people who do that stuff, which is why I'm willing to pay them to do it!

3. Nice lawn with hose. This sounds like a small thing, but launching down the steps into the mud at darling point is a total PITA, especially with a formula fin or a 20kg raceboard. And unpacking everthing again to wash it when I get home is another PITA. Again, this really only works well for longboards - tacking through the swirling winds in the boat harbour on a formula board wouldn't be much fun.

4. All of this every weekend in summer, or #2 and #3 anytime at all.

All except #2 apply to DPSS as well, so I could be convinced. It's hard to tell which fleet belongs to which club out on the water, so I don't have much of a reading on what the level of activity at DPSS is. Looks pretty light on at times, but I'm not sure. Also, I'd want to know whether the grounds can be accessed by any member outside of race days.

As for Bayside: I understand why it's a separate club. The courses and launch requirements for slalom are completely different to what the dinghy clubs cater for. To me longboards are a lot more like dinghies than they are like slalom boards. Formula is different again, and if Bayside got some momentum around formula I'd be interested. But again, I'm not the guy to make it happen.

Jamie raises many valid points, but i Think the membership cost to RQYS at around $900 would put a large magority of sailboarders off. Being part of a club has many benefits .
There are not that many of us so we need to all band together and sail together.

I think I lean the same way as Dave. DPSS sounds better, just due to the cost of RQ (and it comes across as a little stuffy ), and the access into the harbour is a plus for those of us with expensive 70cm fins .

I'd love to do it through Bayside but perhaps we need a season or two to try and build up the course fleets to a number where we can have sufficient volunteers, and everyone helps out every 5-8 rounds and races the rest.

If we used a decent yardstick everyone could race everyone regardless of gear, so the winner could be riding an orignal WOD or Simon's sexy door.

So my preference at the moment would be:

1) Darling Point
2) RQ
3) Bayside (moving up to two if there are enough people and enough enthusiasm to run it all ourselves, and maybe up to one in a year or two)

Thx Tony,
Hamish

R.Q. too expensive I reckon. (unless your rich parents are footing the bill). Darling Point Club sounds pretty cool for that sort of racing.

Interesting topic.

Just to clarify, Bayside is about promoting windsurfing racing. It is not, and never was set up as a slalom club. It organizes races based on the drive of the membership, and is always evolving.
The reason that it runs fig.8 slalom courses, is because it is accessible by everyone regardless of gear and ability, and many people race on the gear they sail everyday.

This format has been the most successful method of encouraging sailboard racing in Qld, so much so that the majority of the techno and now RSX fleets actually came from Bayside's ranks. This obviously demonstrates that the sailing clubs are not as successful as Bayside is in developing windsurf racing in Qld.

Now if you want to race against dinghy's then so be it. If you want to race against windsurfers then a windsurfing club will always provide you the greatest experience. Now when the club meets for its AGM, I'm sure that this topic will be brought up. If you are interested, then how about supporting the only club that supports this industry. The only way things change is by voicing what you want.

Simply because of the performance differences between the different categories yardstick handicap systems do not work- when you factor in the idea of running RSX up against raceboard, up against formula the performance parameters related to wind strength/ conditions just make it soo difficult. When the wind is really up the formula boards will smoke everything else. When it is light the raceboards (or Exocet D2's) will walk all over everything else, and then there is the RSX. Particularly course racing- if you are going to look at setting a course- which board type/ discipline do you set the course to favour- then back to the problem of do you run a slalom type course- then do you go back to slalom racing (because it looks cool and fast)- then what happens? Sail a boat type of course and the formula (slalom type section) boards will not do so well but can work for RSX (provided the course is open and gives them a chance to get in the groove) and Raceboard. Have been trying to get some racing going through Paradise Point on the Gold Coast. Really light winds- the Lasers walk all over any sailboard. Once the wind comes up it is no contest at all- how do you handicap that?

As I commented earlier, easy access to deep water is a big part of the picture when it comes to having a $800+ 70cm carbon crystal on the back of a board.
Getting down the stairs at the end of the point is a accident waiting to happen with Formula gear.. not just the fin, but board and sail are a nightmare.

DPSS has the best access of all to Morton Bay without all the traffic that heads it's way up to RQ..
One thing I would be interested in finding out from DPSS would be how available the Clb area would be to launching outside of club day's as I would hope "we" could use the launch area when there is no racing also... just a thought..

I am also intending to Slalom Race but fully understand the "mobility" required where slalom racing is concerned. I've had the pleasure of running one of the bigger events in WA in the early 90's - Both Slalom & Marathon and they were "easy" considering that Greenhead & Leeman have more consistant wind than Lancilin or Geraldton... oh those were the day's...

So I still lean heavily to sailing out of DPSS...

Dave

Oh, forgot to mention.. racing with other "small" mono's (Dingies) can be rather dangerous on a Formula Bd and even a race board especially in stronger wind conditions.. The speed vs less control and different sailing angles adds more than just a challenge but can very quickly cause potential damaging situations - no fault of windsurfers or Dingy sailors... it can just be very hard for both groups to understand and predict what the other is going to do and still have time to react..
In the past I have raced in mixed fleets in WA and it was not too bad but that was on a large open course... still had moments rounding marks tho...

Racing is fun but it is less than 5 percent of the windsurfing I do.Most windsurfers are like this. Dingy sailing yacht club types differ from this in that racing (or training for racing) is ALL they do. You rarely see someone just going out for a bit of fun on a laser or 29er etc. Thats the difference. Racing is a sideline thing to windsurfing where as racing is what dingy sailing is all about. I think "affiliation ' with a sailing club is preferable to "joining" for Bayside and other clubs.

Good point.. I agree and my main motivation is to find somewhere to launch on the Formula or Raceboard without fear of damage or having to walk for hundreds of meter's in mud... kinda takes the fun out of it...
If there was a way for Bayside to äffiliate with DPSS for course racing then this could be the best of both worlds...

I have been a member at RQ for a year joining was initially a bit painful in terms of $$$ but that pain was soon forgotten. People rarely regret paying for quality and the facilities and organisation are great.

I have not found the club stuffy, the opposite both on and off the water, i remember the commodore giving a little speech at the end of the green island marathon welcoming windsurfers and indicating it was a class they wanted to grow.

From what i understand RQ is trying to position itself as the premier racing club in Australia so racing windsurfers fits into this vision. Additionally they run regattas for many classes and are very enthusiastic and competent when it comes to running state or national titles should that be something we would like to see in qld in the future.

There are two launching options either through the marina or off the beach, choosing which option is best depends on wind and tide and often sailors launch at one and return via the other. The gate at the beach was put in at the request of windsurfers. Another sign of support for windsurfing is the club owns three technos and these boards are often used by kids getting into the sport.

Support on the water is fantastic , I have been rescued once in a big westerly change. Other times i have had gear failure that i managed to fix on the water but a boat was beside me within a few minutes offering assistance. Just last weekend my son did his first rq race in a gustly westerley the boats quickly recognised his inexperience and one literally followed him around the course checking the whole time that he was okand eventully gave him a lift back in. No damage to board or rig in the process.

I would love to have a larger fleet in one place but I would hate to see the existing fleet split or see the kids racing seperatley to other sailors. The technos afterall will probably make uphalf the fleet.

Therfore i opt for rq at least for this year to ensure stability in the current fleet and hopefully grow it. In the long run i would be open to any option.

Finally and probably the most important is that saturdays are mostly windier than sundays

I spend almost every Sunday afternon racing so for me racing is more like 70 percent of the sailing I do. As Jaime pointed out, raceboards are more like dinghies than slalom windsurfers.

The purpose of this thread is for those who want to do course racing to let other course racers in on their intentions and thoughts for next season so that we can make more informed choices. I didn't intend it to determine the strategy that Bayside should adopt. But if that helps to do that, its a bonus.

I am guessing that the other RQYS sailors (my estimate twelve or so Technos and RSXs) will be following Cams strategy so if there is only 3 to 5 sailboards sailing from Darling Point, will that be enough for those to stick with darling point?

DPSS calander shows a winter race on Saturday the 16th of June 1.30pm. I suggest we use that oportunity to go and try it out and ask them some questions.

(I will be sailing at Lake Cootharab Sailing Club during the summer season with occasional visits to the Brisbane clubs.)

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DarkHorse said...

Oh, forgot to mention.. racing with other "small" mono's (Dingies) can be rather dangerous on a Formula Bd and even a race board especially in stronger wind conditions.. The speed vs less control and different sailing angles adds more than just a challenge but can very quickly cause potential damaging situations - no fault of windsurfers or Dingy sailors... it can just be very hard for both groups to understand and predict what the other is going to do and still have time to react..
In the past I have raced in mixed fleets in WA and it was not too bad but that was on a large open course... still had moments rounding marks tho...

In my limited experience a raceboard is very comparable in speed and angle to a performance dinghy like a 29er or 12ft skiff, maybe a little less manoevrable at speed. For example, last race I did I was level-pegging the whole way around with an RS700. I'd say they're absolutely compatible even on very tight courses.

My experience of Formula in mixed fleets is that you have to be pretty conservative in port/starboard and mark rounding situations, and be able to back your board handling skills. So it's doable, but feels more like keeping out of each other's way than like close racing.

I have no plans to race until Sept/Oct, so I'm not in a hurry. I guess I'll end up being a sheep and follow where the other Formula guys go (which is hopefully where most everyone else is - more boards = more fun).

Alongside the YA angle we can still try and get Bayside course racing going with a few proper race attempts pre-xmas. If we get numbers it keeps going, if not then it doesn't. Support was low last season, perhaps because it was 'social' racing (but good fun still), so more formal races may get better numbers.

H

I would be keen to turn up with my raceboard anywhere. However, I think for the long term development and success of the class, an established club with a set calendar of race days in very important. It would offer the consistency for new comers to know they could come along and give it a go on a set day. (Also, if its really windy the slalom guys will be busy elsewhere).

There are encouraging signs for raceboards at PPSC on the Gold Coast. I think a part of this is due to the set calendar. However, it did take a few of the guys including myself a while to make it to a race but knowing there would be a race on if we turned up was vital.

So to answer Tony's question, I think PPSC is better to make any barriers to entry lower. How much was membership again? (also, I personally prefer windward return courses but that's another matter)

De Vecta, I'm not sure if you are confusing Paradise Point sailing Club with the Darling Point sailing club which is at Manly.

John does a great job with the autumn and winter series but it is hard to set proper upwind courses in the space available. Given a choice, I think most Brisbane sailors would opt for the shorter travel distance and more open space of Moreton Bay.

If Gold Coast Sailors want to post their preference in this thread, you are most welcome. Or you can start your own. It will help to know who is sailing there as well.

Joining fee for paradise point is on their website. 140 dollars per adult plus 11 dollars for silver card. Darling Point website is still on last years membership details looks like 60 dollars per adult and plus 66 dollars for silver card. May well increase for next season.

I'm a Bayside club member and prefer Slalom Sundays; but I thought joining Darling Point club volunteering and racing my trusty old tiga raceboard on some Saturday arvos would be good fun, great value for $ and not effect the Bayside Sunday shedule.

I prefer racing to blasting around, which I know is different to most, and I'd rather course race if possible. So I'll sail where there is a fleet if I can.
My plans at the moment is to stay with RQYS this season and if there's a few joining DPSS then I will too and see how it goes. May end up jumping ship later if that's where the fleet leads or sailing both (if the wife lets me ). The only thing on my mind with that is, the development of the youths coming through. RQYS is doing a great job with this and I would not like to see that dying out.

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tonymatta said...

De Vecta, I'm not sure if you are confusing Paradise Point sailing Club with the Darling Point sailing club which is at Manly.

John does a great job with the autumn and winter series but it is hard to set proper upwind courses in the space available. Given a choice, I think most Brisbane sailors would opt for the shorter travel distance and more open space of Moreton Bay.

If Gold Coast Sailors want to post their preference in this thread, you are most welcome. Or you can start your own. It will help to know who is sailing there as well.

Joining fee for paradise point is on their website. 140 dollars per adult plus 11 dollars for silver card. Darling Point website is still on last years membership details looks like 60 dollars per adult and plus 66 dollars for silver card. May well increase for next season.

Sorry, that was a typo in my last paragraph. I meant DPSS as my preference.

cool thread
sounds like all the clubs are relevant.
RQ has a connection to Yachting QLD and the Techno fleet will still pick the youth rep for the next three years. People have already paid for RQ so therefore we need RQ.
Not everyone can afford RQ. A lot of Windsurfers would prefer to sleep rough just so they can afford another sail!!
did anyone see my thoughts/email on formula one design? PM if your interested. I reckon its a cheap way to get into this exciting form of sailing.

It would be great if there was a interclub type series in QLD like in NSW.

NSW only goes to Port Stephans so QLDs interclub could include northern NSW destinations and as far up to the Keppels. I would love to do a ocean challenge to the keppels from the mainland. I reckon the Cairns crew would travel down to it.

QLD is producing some great sailors I would travel up to compete just like QLD sailors came down to sail with us.
Queensland could bring many of the tribes together.
Happy sailing

I have spoken to the secretary of DPSS. She said that they have a permanent race management team so you can race every weekend. they do like to have help with putting the boats away at the end of the day.

I would definately be interested in Racing out of DPSS..
Reasons...
1)Cost of Membership - not the $800 + of RQYS
2) Better water access to Morton bay -
- Even though it is "possible" to windsurf all the way in to the RQYS Launching ramps, I'm sure the harbour master would have doubts about safety when taking continuously back and forth on a Formula board while trying to keep clear of all the other traffic..
- It would be much easier and safer to get to the DPSS Ramp..

"We" may even be able to organise using Rescue boats to help run Slalom events at Manly or Wynum as well so maybe Bayside Club could consider joining/merging which could make the whole windsurfing sport stronger...

Any more Comments from anyone?

+1 for DPSS

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DarkHorse said...


2) Better water access to Morton bay -
- Even though it is "possible" to windsurf all the way in to the RQYS Launching ramps, I'm sure the harbour master would have doubts about safety when taking continuously back and forth on a Formula board while trying to keep clear of all the other traffic..
- It would be much easier and safer to get to the DPSS Ramp..

I actually think it is easier to get out or RQYS. You just rig up at the end of the point. The 'loo with a view'.
Nice rigging area and walk straight out onto Moreton bay through the gate. The only thing is, at low tide it is a bit of a walk. Much less than that little bay on the side of DPSS though.