As previously discussed I continue to struggle pointing on my big gear (116L/71cm wide + 7.8m). I was getting schooled by Mariachi when on similar gear, so made this video hoping to learn something or get some more tips.



The best I seemed to point on starboard was around 200 deg and around 16 deg on port. Looking at a compass seems like I am averaging 2 deg into the wind. I knew I couldn't point well but that seems ridiculous....although looking at my overlapping gps lines, I guess that makes sense. Is my math right?


PS: That session I was only focussed on going upwind, and I had the outhaul pulled in. And I was trying to rail the board to windward a bit. In general, my feeling while riding is better and better. Maybe getting the sense of what flying the board might be like

To get upwind, I think it's better to rail the board to leeward, especially if the board has thick boxy rails, they can offer some resistance. Also the board wants to turn downwind, wich forces you to rake the sail back more, making it more efficient, by closing the gap.

I think decrepit is right. In order to crank upwind, it is better to rail the board to leeward and let the fin do the work. The whole idea is to reduce the wetted area for better speed and angle.

In the days of formula racing this was critically important. With the soft fins, when you railed to leeward the fin would bend in under you and give you some vertical lift, like a foil. This helped lift the board off the water. Anything to reduce wetted area.

Also you need to be well powered up, and get a carbon fin

Sorry boys I got confused I was attempting to rail to leeward or pointing toes to avoid sinking the windward rail

Your aim should be to ride your leeward rail and get your windward rail clear of the water. The essence of this dynamic is that as soon as your board is canted even 10 degrees to leeward your fin starts to generate a vertical component of lift that provides for you to sail on a smaller surface area of your board than is possible if you maintain your board flat. And this condition is definitely advantageous to sailing efficiently upwind because your engaged leeward rail may well have better pointing ability than your fin.

For me, your mast foot is too far forwards and your sail is down-hauled too much. ..To rail ride efficiently and consistently upwind I need the "centre" of my mast foot back in the track at 130-131cms from the tail, ..and maybe up to 2cms less downhaul than you've got on.

Try moving your mast foot back until you are almost out of control on your fin and then shift it forwards 1 centimetre - that's how I rail-ride upwind. ..In other words the closer you rig your mast foot to the centre of pressure of your fin the more your fin will want to fly.

Front hand overhand grip works best upwind. When you've got your board railed up and flying on your fin, actually look upwind and use your feet in your straps to twist the nose of your board towards the wind. Also try to keep your body weight as far outboard and forwards as you can manage, and then try to work the leading edge of your sail across your board towards the wind.

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Phromsky said..
Your aim should be to ride your leeward rail and get your windward rail clear of the water. The essence of this dynamic is that as soon as your board is canted even 10 degrees to leeward your fin starts to generate a vertical component of lift that provides for you to sail on a smaller surface area of your board than is possible if you maintain your board flat. And this condition is definitely advantageous to sailing efficiently upwind because your engaged leeward rail may well have better pointing ability than your fin.

For me, your mast foot is too far forwards and your sail is down-hauled too much. ..To rail ride efficiently and consistently upwind I need the "centre" of my mast foot back in the track at 130-131cms from the tail, ..and maybe up to 2cms less downhaul than you've got on.

Try moving your mast foot back until you are almost out of control on your fin and then shift it forwards 1 centimetre - that's how I rail-ride upwind. ..In other words the closer you rig your mast foot to the centre of pressure of your fin the more your fin will want to fly.

Front hand overhand grip works best upwind. When you've got your board railed up and flying on your fin, actually look upwind and use your feet in your straps to twist the nose of your board towards the wind. Also try to keep your body weight as far outboard and forwards as you can manage, and then try to work the leading edge of your sail across your board towards the wind.

Big thanks! Will try those tips

I used to have a Tomcat 42cm and I could never go upwind wth my 7.8. As soon as I got a stiffer G10 and now a carbon fin problem solved.

As others have said, raising your windward rail is key.

Other things that help:
- speed is your friend, I bear away at the start of a tack to get speed then use the speed to get lift to windward for the rest of the tack
- Similarly flying the fin helps, i.e. raise your boom and or move your mast base back
- Shorter harness lines help
- Hold onto your uphaul line with your front hand

Make sure you're not over sheeting the sail. Many sailors do this. As you climb upwind your angle to the wind is changing and the sail needs to be sheeted out slowly to match the changing angle to wind.
To help stop over sheeting try moving your back hand and putting it between the two harness line clamps.
The object is to keep the mast as upright as you can.
If you grab hold of the uphaul rope with your front hand the front of the rig will stand up even more upright.
You'll find you need underhand front grip also as it helps keep the rig upright.
Splayed feet also, heels together, back foot pointing back which loads the fin from the correct angle.
A carbon 'J' fin makes all of this much easier.
Happy climbing!

Thanks for suggestions. I moved my mast track all the way back, released about 1cm of downhaul and raised boom. I had some tide asist but my best points of sail were 250 on starboard and 55 on port. An average of 20 deg into the wind?

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Te Hau said..
Make sure you're not over sheeting the sail. Many sailors do this. As you climb upwind your angle to the wind is changing and the sail needs to be sheeted out slowly to match the changing angle to wind.

I agree with your suggestion, but not with the "why" you give.

As you point higher into the wind, the apparent wind angle moves towards the nose of the board. That is true even after taking into account that the speed drops at higher angles. So adjusting to the change in apparent wind angle would require sheeting in more.

In reality, though, sheeting out a bit can give for better upwind speed. This is counter-intuitive when looking at the apparent wind direction. I think the reason sheeting out works can be found by looking at the direction of the lift that the sail generates. If you're sailing at the speed of the true wind at an angle of 45 degrees, then the true wind speed is 22.5 degrees. Being fully sheeted in for this angle means that most of the sail's lift is perpendicular to the direction of travel, so it needs to be re-direction using the fin and the leeward edge of the board. Opening up the sail a bit directs the lift of the sail more forward.

If you're using an adjustable outhaul and pull it in when going upwind, then you could also just look at the angle of the front-most part of the sail (roughly the luff sleeve in slalom sails). You could imagine that most of the forward-directed force is created there (that's a bit simplistic but not entirely wrong). If your changing course from beam reach to going hard into the wind (at 45 degrees to true wind), and we assume your board speed drops from 1.2x wind speed to 1x wind speed, then the apparent wind angle decreases by about 17 degrees. If you tighten the adjustable outhaul a lot for this course change, reducing the profile depth of the sail, the angle of the front-most part of the sail is reduced. That means rather than sheeting in 17 degrees more to adjust to the apparent wind, you would need to sheet in significantly less.

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thedoor said..
Thanks for suggestions. I moved my mast track all the way back, released about 1cm of downhaul and raised boom. I had some tide asist but my best points of sail were 250 on starboard and 55 on port. An average of 20 deg into the wind?

It looks to me like you've lifted yourself into wind approximately 4700 feet on six tacks to windward, all of which appear to be in the order of 10 degrees - each of those values of 10 is only relevant in a standalone context. ..And to actually make 20 degrees to windward you have to find the way you can point and sail higher.

..I've been looking at your foot straps and thinking the placement is fairly radical, and your heels are quite far outboard because of it. My thinking is that you may well be able to find a substantially higher degree of control over your fin if you loosen your rear foot straps enough to get your rear foot completely on board. But also enough so that you can move your rear foot around a bit in the strap, and for instance be able to twist your rear heel forwards, in order to push on either the rail or the strap connection.