i ride fanatic eagle 113, 2007 with mfc sl slalom 28 & 36
on my the loft O2 5,9 & 7,4, 2009
my PB so far is only 23,97 and I can't go faster
probably is in me, maybe on board.
i like to know:
1/did i need to replace fanatic eagle 113 with my wish: falcon 104
2/how is easiest way to learn how to go downwind, i've got problem with that, when i go down, i just feel that i losing power instead the power must be higher
-what i do wrong?
3/i also i think have problem with good speed position, how to improve that ?

for info, i am 175cm, got 63kg, boom is in shoulder level, h.lines are 26",
harnes i use gaastra riders seat and np waist, depends on wind

any help is welcome, cheers from croatia

pics from today:

Hey Warrior,

I think your board has lots more speed left in it

When you go downwind, it will feel as if the wind is dropping, but you are actually going much faster. Have a good look at your tracks, you'd be surprised...

Also if you're chasing speed, rig the sails with lots of belly and lots of downhaul. From the pics you could have an extra couple of cm of downhaul, as well as the same amount less outhaul.

Use the 7.4 in 20 knots windspeed, and you'll almost certainly crack a PB

G'day Warrior nice looking spot there.

Don't know if this will help but here goes

A smaller board will help with speed generally provided there's enough wind (I think you guys struggle for wind at times?)

Going down wind feels quite un-natural when you start out doing it, would recommend trying to chase someone on a few runs to really suss out the lines.

With running out of power going won wind, you need to rig bigger than what you would sailing square, when you bear away you start traveling in a similar direction to the wind reducing the winds velocity in comparison to you.
General rule of thumb: Rig as big as you can handle sailing back up wind.

Harness lines (for seat), Possibly go one size longer, allows yourself to get further away from the rig and stand less up right whilst allowing the sail to stand more upright, Standing less up gives a bit more room to move when a gust hits (less tippy)

Looking at the photos to me it looks like the back of the board is digging in, I'd try shifting the mast foot forward a bit or lowering the boom down a touch.

Good luck, have fun

thanx nebbian
i think my sail is trimmed ok, but picture, becouse of shoting corner, doesn't show it good:
my loft 7,4 got 488 (I use 490) and boom 218, I use 217

photos of my trimmed sail is here, so check again that and let me know





and downwind, when I turn down, and planing, I just feel that I will drop
on my back into water, no feeling that I am goin any faster

p.s. what is "belly"

thanx elmo
moving base little front will drop the nose down, right ?
moving boom little down will also drop the nose a little down, right ?

- I will try this, promise

more 3 from today, different angle:






yes elmo, we struggle with the wind here, water is much
softer then sea, and boards are much feel like less liters...
only good wind here is SW (today) and we hard wait for him
smaller board? I also got fanatic allwave 85 but it "holds" max 6.2 as noted on him
I also got one AL360 26cm MOVE fin for that usbox fittings
I didn't try AW85 with new loft, maybe my 5,9 O2freerace will be ideal for that board

Belly is the curve at the lower front of the sail, you don't want the sail to be outhailed to much making the sail to flat.

also rig your sail on the top out haul eyelet this will give your sail a bit more power, only switch to the lower one when you start getting overpowered.

Lotsa fun testing and tuning

@elmo:
you wrote: "also rig your sail on the top out haul eyelet this will give your sail a bit more power"
are you talking about this two holes (eyelet) in the end of boom ? I also want to ask about this, and what is "the secret" to hook boom on high and low hole (eyelet) ?

so, if I get it right your words, now is for overpowered cond., and not for more power:



and if I translate right, belly is regulated by boom, and in that case I instead 218 boom I use 1-2 cm less, actually, just hook the boom, and I never got "flat look"

p.s. sorry about my english...

nebbian, when you will add option in profile "I LIVE IN" Croatia

Eyelets in sails is a easy one to remember.
High eyelt for low breeze,
Low eyelet for high breeze.

So lots of wind go low, not much wind go high.
Mineral

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mineral1 said...

Eyelets in sails is a easy one to remember.
High eyelt for low breeze,
Low eyelet for high breeze.

So lots of wind go low, not much wind go high.
Mineral

that explains why my low eyelet is getting rusty

Hi warrior your current gear can for sure go quicker.
Downhaul looks ok maybe a touch more also having the boom up a touch higher may help too. When ya going for a run try to go with the gust and bear off take abit a back foot pressure off as you you do and even if you think you have run out o wind keep going that bit longer and hold the rig steady.

And like elmo said rig that bit bigger for downwind runs actually i go step more and say i prefer to be abit a over powerd going upwind for my downwind run the WA guys cant handle being over powered
good luck

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vando said...

the WA guys cant handle being over powered
good luck

That's cause we're pussies

Hey guys, I still can't quite come to grips with putting on more and more downhaul to get more speed. I'm usually sailing in underpowered conditions, which might be the difference, but here's my experience... say I'm using my 5.9 Maui TR1 sail, when I rig as per instructions, the sail is very flat, and I'll have zero outhaul, or even negative. Wind might be around 20 knots, with gusts up to 25 or even 30, and I feel like I'm barely moving. I let off a few of cm of downhaul, and the sail becomes very full lower down, and all of a sudden my speed increases a few knots. It seems for all my experiences, that the less downhaul I put on, the faster I go.

A while ago I was also sailing with a guy who has heaps more experience than me, with him on a new 7.0 NP race sail, which he downhauled with a crank, and made it incredibly floppy in the leach, and very flat. I was on a 6.2 Sailworks Synchro from about 1996, which I rigged with very little downhaul, which made it very full and round on the leading edge. The other guy was on a fanatic eagle with a nice looking fin (didn't catch the size), and I was on a fanatic bee with a 29 cm fin. Well, if you can guess what I'm going to say, I was going faster than him whenever we were on the same run. Speeds were less than 30 knots.

I seem to get the same increase in speed with less downhaul with a 2007 Tushingham X15 7.0 sail I just got, and also pretty much every other sail I have.

Well, am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something? I'll gladly take advice and try out anything if you think I'd go faster with some other tuning. I'm limited by locations and light winds here, but I'm keen to learn more if there's free advice going!

Thanks,
Craig

@mineral
i don't get now
elmo said that I need to use high eyelet for more power, and you said that I need to use low eyelet for high breeze
As you all se my sail detail, I use low eyelet for now. So is it OK like that or not ?

@vando
thanx bro by loft
I am OP mostly (rided in saturday 7.4 on 25 KT gust...)
You also said that I need to high boom, and elmo said that I need low the boom
becouse my nose of the board is little bit up - so why the difference, what will I do now

So, now I have 2 different options of boom, and two different explanations of eyelet

Craig,

Having less downhaul in lighter winds is an advantage, although you can go past a point and the sail will really start behaving badly.

Sailing square to the wind a tighter leach is ok but with speed sailing you are generally bearing away a far bit and this is where you need more down haul so the sail can still breathe.

Older sails generally have a tighter leach in comparison to newer sails and can have a better bottom end, but once the wind gets stronger the newer sails are a lot more stable.

Regarding the 5.9 going quicker with a bit less downhaul, possibly a bit underdone with sail size.

At the end of the day, you rig to what suits your sailing, the GPS is a great tool which takes all the subjectivity out of the testing and tuning

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wkcwarrior said...

@mineral
i don't get now
elmo said that I need to use high eyelet for more power, and you said that I need to use low eyelet for high breeze
As you all se my sail detail, I use low eyelet for now. So is it OK like that or not ?

@vando
thanx bro by loft
I am OP mostly (rided in saturday 7.4 on 25 KT gust...)
You also said that I need to high boom, and elmo said that I need low the boom
becouse my nose of the board is little bit up - so why the difference, what will I do now

So, now I have 2 different options of boom, and two different explanations of eyelet

The top out haul eyelet is used for lighter winds.

When the winds pick up and the sail starts getting a bit of a handful switch to the bottom out haul eyelet, this will pull more from the bottom of the sail allowing the leach to twist of more allowing you to sail with the same sail in higher winds.

Re the boom height

Raise the boom reduces weight on the front foot lifts the nose of the board up
Lower the boom more weight on the front foot nose on the board goes down.

More info
http://www.neilpryde.com/insiders-guide/insiders-guide/slalom-speed-part-one-equipment.html
www.neilpryde.com/insiders-guide/insiders-guide/slalom-speed-part-two-tuning-preparation-and-rac.html

Hope this helps

crystal clear
so, i will use lover eyelet as I use it so far
and with boom I just need to experiment.
also I will try to leave boom as he is, and try to mastbase little forward to
down the nose of the board....

thanx guys so far, i will let u know later

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wkcwarrior said...

crystal clear
so, i will use lover eyelet as I use it so far
and with boom I just need to experiment.
also I will try to leave boom as he is, and try to mastbase little forward to
down the nose of the board....

thanx guys so far, i will let u know later

Don'T forget to keep us posted on your progress, and better still join one of the teams who are In Croacia. WEB PAGE HERE. Its free and the team mates will help you out. We will see your scores each time you post
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/index.php?country=4

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mineral1 said...

wkcwarrior said...

crystal clear
so, i will use lover eyelet as I use it so far
and with boom I just need to experiment.
also I will try to leave boom as he is, and try to mastbase little forward to
down the nose of the board....

thanx guys so far, i will let u know later

Don'T forget to keep us posted on your progress, and better still join one of the teams who are In Croacia. WEB PAGE HERE. Its free and the team mates will help you out. We will see your scores each time you post
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/index.php?country=4

www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor/view/336

Errr... Mineral...

Ummm...

I think he's already joined:

gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor/view/336


Good to see the recruitment drive going strong


P.S. Beat me to it by mere seconds, Elmo dagnammit!

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mineral1 said...

wkcwarrior said...

crystal clear
so, i will use lover eyelet as I use it so far
and with boom I just need to experiment.
also I will try to leave boom as he is, and try to mastbase little forward to
down the nose of the board....

thanx guys so far, i will let u know later

Don'T forget to keep us posted on your progress, and better still join one of the teams who are In Croacia. WEB PAGE HERE. Its free and the team mates will help you out. We will see your scores each time you post
gpsteamchallenge.com.au/index.php?country=4

yeah nebbian righ
not even i joined gtc, also i am captain of the team and person who actually together with Ben add Croatioa into GTC - hell yeah :)
(Chech out under name WARRIOR)

I will keep you all informed, don't worry

ALL OF YOU are great mates, and I allready enjoying all good feelings to be
part of GTC's good fun place

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wkcwarrior said...

@mineral
i don't get now
elmo said that I need to use high eyelet for more power, and you said that I need to use low eyelet for high breeze
As you all se my sail detail, I use low eyelet for now. So is it OK like that or not ?

@vando
thanx bro by loft
I am OP mostly (rided in saturday 7.4 on 25 KT gust...)
You also said that I need to high boom, and elmo said that I need low the boom
becouse my nose of the board is little bit up - so why the difference, what will I do now

So, now I have 2 different options of boom, and two different explanations of eyelet

Sorry Warrior i didint see you said you had the boom at shoulder hight.
Thats prob where i run mine on the big gear bit lower for the high wind slalom gear.

Just Try it in a few spots you well soon find the sweet spot.
in the end if ya want to go fast you need to be comfy
sit back relax let the gear do the work

@ VANDO
Tomorrow we have good solid forecast for 7.4
I will tomorrow try this:

1. Move the mastbase 1cm to front, to little move the nose down [}:)]
(I also crack my nose few dayz ago, you probably notice ducktape on the nose )
2. I just bought Gaastra riders seat harness and longer lines 26" and I will try with these two new thingz.
3. I will lower the boom from shoulders to 5cm lower

and Nebbian I am still and proud from QLD Australia in my profile, hehehe

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wkcwarrior said...
>>>>>
and Nebbian I am still and proud from QLD Australia in my profile, hehehe

Hi warrior, great to see Croatia well up in the rankings.

We can lay a lot of stuff at Neb's feet, but the profile on this site has nothing at all to do with him.
Seabreeze and the the GTC site are very different places owned and run by different people.

Laurie, is the owner and maintainer of this site, you may need to PM him from this site and ask for Croatia to be added to the country list.

Thanx Decrepit, I din't know that, I just think that this two sites are from Ben.
Never mind, Nice 4 me is to be from QLD, AU, even only in profile

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wkcwarrior said...

Thanx Decrepit, I din't know that, I just think that this two sites are from Ben.
Never mind, Nice 4 me is to be from QLD, AU, even only in profile

we are the best state wkcwarrior.


elmo, that loft guide was a great read. learnt a lot from that.

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Craiggoo said...

Hey guys, I still can't quite come to grips with putting on more and more downhaul to get more speed. ............. It seems for all my experiences, that the less downhaul I put on, the faster I go.


I seem to get the same increase in speed with less downhaul with a 2007 Tushingham X15 7.0 sail I just got, and also pretty much every other sail I have.

Well, am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something?

Thanks,
Craig

Craig. It is easy to misinterpret the 'more downhaul' thing. And certainly possible to overdo it. Adding downhaul will only make you faster if you are fully powered up when you have 'added' it. If you are still some way from max power, adding downhaul will usually get you less power as you have found.
The advantage of adding downhaul is to lower the center of effort in your sail and enable you to hold more power and direct it better. But as stated, this only helps if you are at or close to the max you can hold.
It also helps when you let the outhaul out to get max depth in the sail, you need to add downhaul to stabilize it again (and control that extra drive). I often have the sail well and truly touching the boom when doing downwind speed runs and sometimes I have to add a tough of downhaul to control it, BUT, if I put too much more downhaul on it flattens out the lower sail and reduces drive. Its a balancing thing, just like every aspect of speed sailing.

The fastest runs I have done always felt uncomfortably overpowered on the beam reach on the run-in to the course. When I finally get to the ideal angle I am fully powered but (mostly) under control.

@ gestalt: in that case i will stay QLD AU

btw if i am right differnce between CRO and AU is +8 hours
here is 15 hours and at your place right now is 23

you will got wind tomorrow earlier than we are here, hehehehe

cheerz

@elmo: trimming guide is excellent, i put it on my site dloads

and all of you are invited to login as my memberz on
www.windsurfing-koprivnica.net/

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decrepit said...

wkcwarrior said...
>>>>>
and Nebbian I am still and proud from QLD Australia in my profile, hehehe

Hi warrior, great to see Croatia well up in the rankings.

We can lay a lot of stuff at Neb's feet, but the profile on this site has nothing at all to do with him.
Seabreeze and the the GTC site are very different places owned and run by different people.

Laurie, is the owner and maintainer of this site, you may need to PM him from this site and ask for Croatia to be added to the country list.

Nevertheless, his wish is my command

anyway, talkin about my broken nose from saturday, i didn't been catapulted at least year and half, and now with new rig two times in two days. maybe i need to put harness lines more back, becouse now i think drag me into catapult. Becouse i have only 63kg, it is hard to hold 7.4 on 22+ gust
so i have new fanatic board broken

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sailquik said...

Craiggoo said...

Hey guys, I still can't quite come to grips with putting on more and more downhaul to get more speed. ............. It seems for all my experiences, that the less downhaul I put on, the faster I go.


I seem to get the same increase in speed with less downhaul with a 2007 Tushingham X15 7.0 sail I just got, and also pretty much every other sail I have.

Well, am I doing something wrong, or overlooking something?

Thanks,
Craig

Craig. It is easy to misinterpret the 'more downhaul' thing. And certainly possible to overdo it. Adding downhaul will only make you faster if you are fully powered up when you have 'added' it. If you are still some way from max power, adding downhaul will usually get you less power as you have found.
The advantage of adding downhaul is to lower the center of effort in your sail and enable you to hold more power and direct it better. But as stated, this only helps if you are at or close to the max you can hold.
It also helps when you let the outhaul out to get max depth in the sail, you need to add downhaul to stabilize it again (and control that extra drive). I often have the sail well and truly touching the boom when doing downwind speed runs and sometimes I have to add a tough of downhaul to control it, BUT, if I put too much more downhaul on it flattens out the lower sail and reduces drive. Its a balancing thing, just like every aspect of speed sailing.

The fastest runs I have done always felt uncomfortably overpowered on the beam reach on the run-in to the course. When I finally get to the ideal angle I am fully powered but (mostly) under control.

Thanks for the advice Sailquik, I probably need more experience and advice on which sail size to pick for the conditions. What usually happens is that if I'm overpowered on my 7.0, (with not much downhaul), then I'll try it with a bit more downhaul, but more often I think it's better to switch down to my 5.9 and use it with little downhaul.

I'm sure most of you guys have gone over discussions like this a thousand times over the years, so we definitely appreciate the advice! Thanks again!

not luck today
www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2009-06-11&team=40