Same as with the GW52, the logit thread is much too long to find useful info.
But this is much harder to be definitive, because of phone variability.
Although the app is fantastic, giving all our 6 divisions readable on the water as well as speed talk telling you how fast your going in close to real time, (there does appear to be a slight delay), with "last run" telling you the results of whatever division you've selected in "zoom" view.

The biggest problem I've found is the display turning off, this causes both the pixie3 and Xperia E1 to go crazy, missing chunks of data, and sometimes giving as much as twice actual speed. Although logit has a "screen on" button, this only affects the normal time out after non use switch off. Any inadvertent activation of the phone controls can turn the display off. I've resorted to using a fereo roche chocolate box lid to protect the phone face from being touched, and this works well most of the time.

There's also the problem with all the different phones, there appears to be two resolutions that phones come with, a coarse one just under 0.5 knots and a better fine one just under 0.012knots. There is a list being compiled on the "logit resolution" thread.

But resolution doesn't seem to be the major factor in accuracy, that I think is down to satellite sensitivity in some way. Unfortunately the number of Satellites shown isn't a reliable indicator of this, and it's hard to define.

I've only been testing the Sony Xperia E1 and the Alcatel Pixie3. and both of these have poor satellite sensitivity, they both need a very clear view of the sky, although the xperia reports more satellites than the pixie, I get better results with the pixie than I do with the xperia. And wearing them on my head gives better results than on my arm.

Then there's the matter of headphones and armbands, I'm still trying to find an ideal solution that's not too expensive, at the moment waterproof pouch and earphones are about 3 times the price of the Pixie3

So at the moment, things are still a bit grey, certainly it's recommended to use a recognised GPS for recording and the phone as a guide.

Good summary Mike.

I have both the Xperia and Pixie as well. I prefer the Xperia. My ingrained habit of using my head to rotate the sail, when I beach and water start, precludes putting anything on my head that could damage the sail, so I wear the phone on my upper arm. Also the screen turning off on my Xperia does not seem to affect its performance. I agree, the phone should only be used as a real time guide. They are not accurate enough for downloading results to GPSTC. For this I use my GT-31 which I wear on my impact vest shoulder strap in a Paqua.

I also agree that finding the right waterproof pouch and earphones for the phone is proving a challenge. My current pouch (Dripro) works very well, but I'm concerned about the potential performance of the light construction of the seams in a heavy duty crash. The Dripro earphones worked well for 6 sessions, but one earpiece is now not working. I unfortunately lost my Pyle bluetooth waterproof earphones, which worked well, but they have limited battery life, so I wont replace. Following Roo's recommendation, I've ordered the H2O Amphibx pouch and earphones. They arrive this week. I'll trial them over the coming weeks and provide feedback.

This arrangement will do me for the time being until, a specific brand / model of phone is endorsed by GPSTC as an accepted GPS.

John, I have a feeling you have a different xperia, mine I think is the E1, it was $40 from Dick Smith. I think your model is probably a lot better.

I'm very impressed by the H2O Amphix pouch, but I didn't order the earphones to go with them, that is probably the best option.
My big mistake was thinking that the phones that came with my cheap Chinese pouch would be OK. They do work but they've got a bad side effect, more pronounced with the Pixie. The slightest vibration of the earphone plug in the Amphix socket cause music to start, then change tracks with every bump, that's livable with. but sometimes it also brings up the track display that turns the logit screen off, then everything goes to mush.
The difference is the number of contacts on the earphone plug, the cheap Chinese one has only 3, as it's meant for music player not a phone.

So be warned, when buying earphones, don't risk music player ones! They may well work, but there again they may cause problems.

John, it's a pity you lost your Pyle blue tooth phones, mine worked well until I tried to charge them in the car without the supplied cable. I think it applied pressure to the contact and caused an open cct somewhere.

Endorsing a phone is going to be hard, there's so many of them, and they all cost money!

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decrepit said..
I'm very impressed by the H2O Amphix pouch, but I didn't order the earphones to go with them, that is probably the best option.
My big mistake was thinking that the phones that came with my cheap Chinese pouch would be OK. They do work but they've got a bad side effect, more pronounced with the Pixie. The slightest vibration of the earphone plug in the Amphix socket cause music to start, then change tracks with every bump, that's livable with. but sometimes it also brings up the track display that turns the logit screen off, then everything goes to mush.
The difference is the number of contacts on the earphone plug, the cheap Chinese one has only 3, as it's meant for music player not a phone.

Mike, interesting that you mention the vibration issue causes the music to start and change tracks. I have the H2OAudio pouch and the H2O earphones and I have the same problem. All worked well for about 5 sailing sessions then the music issue started. I have tried cleaning the connections with electronic circuit cleaner but rotating or bumping the earphone jack will start the music and/or change music tracks. So far I have been lucky that it hasn't effected the recorded sailing tracks.

I use small wood dowels to separate the phone screen from the H2OAudio case - seems to have eliminated the random activation of the phone. Sometimes the display is off when I check it but activating it always brings up the correct GPSLogit screen. After I took this photo I added a small dowel to form an H over the phone screen - keeps everything in place and allows me to move the dowels if I need to activate the screen. Allows me to read the GPSLogit screen without removing phone from the case.

bugger, I assumed using the h2o earphones would fix that problem, do they have 4 contacts or 3?
Because, if I use 4 contact smart phone earplugs I don't have the problem, the only thing is they aren't waterproof.
I like your wood dowels idea!

The H2O earphones have 3 contacts...

re: dowels - thanks!

Never had any problems and I've been using them for 6 months this year, the bag is 3 seasons old but I did replace the headphones. I find the faster you go and as you approach the speed of light less problems occur. Screen stays on and never goes off, tracks record without any spikes. Strangest thing is that my trackpoint speeds are less than my doppler ones, unlike the GT31 where it's the opposite.

Roo, couple of differences... 1) I crash, you don't. Usually didn't have an activation problem until after the first crash of the day and then the H2OAudio case screen would stick to the phone screen. This could be caused by the high humidity on Bonaire. Some condensation occurs on the inside of the case after it gets dunked in the ocean. 2) if you don't crash you don't get the connector wet. Getting it wet with salt water is worse than even Columbia River water...

Most of the time my screen stays on. Only after a bad crash do I see issues. I have not seen spikes on my track data.

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bartontb said..
The H2O earphones have 3 contacts...

re: dowels - thanks!

OK I think that's the problem, I wonder if they make 4 contact phone earplugs. The extra contact is for the mike I guess.
And Roo, Manfred told me he had display turn off problems at La Franqui in high speed crashes.

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decrepit said..

bartontb said..
The H2O earphones have 3 contacts...

re: dowels - thanks!

OK I think that's the problem, I wonder if they make 4 contact phone earplugs. The extra contact is for the mike I guess.
And Roo, Manfred told me he had display turn off problems at La Franqui in high speed crashes.

Amazon in the USA shows these waterproof 4 contact X-1 (H20Audio) earphones: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AJD0H6K . Unfortunately, they don't have good user ratings for reliability... At least the H2OAudio case has the 4 contacts...

Windxtasy said.. (on another thread, in italics) my thoughts inserted into the text.
Sorry to be negative, but I think Logit and associated hassles will put off more people than it converts. For introducing people to the GPSTC (which is the best thing which ever happened to windsurfing) a canmore or GW 52 is a much better option. So much less hassle, unless you are just using the logit to record your session without trying to hear what it is saying. I find the speed chat to be one of the premier features of GPSLogit - I feel cheated when sailing without the continuous speed updates...

Background to this statement: I am captain of the Pinnaroos GPS team and have used a GT 31 for years but after reading Roo's experiences with the GPSlogit, I thought it had great potential to improve my speeds and I would try it.
I have found the apparatus the most frustrating equipment I have ever used - the phone keeps switching itself off or changing to other functions, I have tried Decrepit's Ferrero box cover but then you have no access to change/see anything once it is in the bag., In this thread, but a couple of posts up, I posted a picture of my solution to this problem (complete solution is three dowels formed in an 'H' pattern over the screen, the short dowel can be moved when phone control is necessary). I can see the screen, control the phone, and don't have the random phone changes - which I too experienced before adding the wood dowels.

and getting the phone in the waterproof bag without accidentally turning it off or changing functions is a challenge. I agree
Getting the volume loud enough so you can actually hear the speedchat is something I have rarely achieved even after fiddling with phone settings. Mostly I just hear a croak in the background. Salt water corrodes the earphone jack. The ear pieces get pulled out during sailing and the wind noise when the earpieces are in is unpleasant. I'm an old fogey focused on safety, and have a wife that suffered a traumatic brain injury three years ago from which she still hasn't fully recovered. Why am I saying this? Because I will not sail, especially at speed, without a helmet. My brain is too precious to me. I use the Gath Personal watersports model. The helmet solves a couple of these issues. It keeps the earphones in place and you can reduce wind noise by closing the ear holes. Regarding the volume - I'm now convinced that, at least with my Alcatel phone, I need to either use earbuds with 4 contacts (earphones plus mic), or switch to Bluetooth earbuds. The phone wants a 4 contact headset and just doesn't work correctly with the 3 contact earbuds, especially if they have gotten corroded. Silicon grease may be a solution for the corrosion, plus rinsing after each session. [b]The system worked great the first few sessions and then gradually deteriorated from there. I was able to successfully clean the jack with liquid electronic circuit cleaner (after using the system for three weeks without providing any care to the jack). I also use the H2O earphones which provide some level of protection to the jack.[/b]
If I was introduced to GPS by a logit setup I would give it away as all being too hard. I am close to giving logit the flick anyway, but being the persistent individual that I am I will keep trying. Potentially it is a great tool to help the dedicated speedsurfer but I haven't been able to get it to work for me yet. I have not tried any other system and am bull headed enough to MAKE this system work. I have also had reasonable experience with salt water and electronics so none of these issues surprise me...


Edit update: One additional item. I'm too old to worry any more about 'being cool'. I'm more concerned about minimizing pain and maximizing play time - so I wear an impact vest. The benefit here is that I first put the phone pouch on my arm, insert the earbuds into my ears, and then I put on the impact vest. This sequence nicely captures the headphone wires under the impact vest, making everything nice and tidy and minimizes any wires swinging in the breeze that are just begging to rip the earbuds out of my ears - problem solved.

Here is my setup which works very nicely for me

Samsung J1 Phone

DriPro Waterproof case for Galaxy S3
www.whitworths.com.au/

Blueant Pump HD sports buds Waterproof/wireless
www.jbhifi.com.au/headphones-dj/headphones/blueant/blueant-pump-hd-sportsbuds-headphones-black/587572/

Phone apps
GPS LOGIT
GPS Status (for checking resetting GPS)
Rocket Player (Full version)

Comments
The Dri Pro case has a better waterproof rating than the Paqua cases we use for GT's this model allows for the phone to slip in without pressing buttons.
The Pump HD Sports I wear under my NP helmet offer very good sound and battery life as well as coming with different sized ear buds, they have stayed in place when Ive made a few dents in the water as well.
The Rocket Player is the trick if you want to listen to tunes as well as Sexy Sadie/Heidi. The standard players DO NOT have volume controls for the player alone, so when you lower the volume on the phone Sadie's volume drops as well. The Rocket player allows you to adjust the volume of the player separately. It takes a few adjustments but you can get the volume differential sorted out quite nicely so you have your tunes playing but Sadie being clearly heard over the top without blasting your ears.
Once the levels are set then you can adjust the volumes for both (at same time) up or down on the earphones them selves or on the phone.


I honestly believe that GPSLOGIT is a winner and a fantastic training tool to help us all improve our speed sailing.

I may look at getting a dongle or external antenna for the phone later on to see if it offers any accuracy improvements but that is down the track and of low priority as I believe it works quite well for what I am doing

As a post note.

My primary GPS is a GT11 which I use for all my data crunching as that is what I've always used.

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bartontb said..
In this thread, but a couple of posts up, I posted a picture of my solution to this problem (complete solution is three dowels formed in an 'H' pattern over the screen, the short dowel can be moved when phone control is necessary). I can see the screen, control the phone, and don't have the random phone changes - which I too experienced before adding the wood dowels.

Silicon grease may be a solution for the corrosion, plus rinsing after each session. [b]The system worked great the first few sessions and then gradually deteriorated from there. I was able to successfully clean the jack with liquid electronic circuit cleaner (after using the system for three weeks without providing any care to the jack). [/b]


Edit update: One additional item. I'm too old to worry any more about 'being cool'. I'm more concerned about minimizing pain and maximizing play time - so I wear an impact vest. The benefit here is that I first put the phone pouch on my arm, insert the earbuds into my ears, and then I put on the impact vest. This sequence nicely captures the headphone wires under the impact vest, making everything nice and tidy and minimizes any wires swinging in the breeze that are just begging to rip the earbuds out of my ears - problem solved.

Thanks Barton. I shall give those things a try. Putting the impact vest over the top of the wiring should help a lot. I do wear an impact vest so that is easy. Silicon grease sounds good.
Then I only have to overcome user stupidity. Last time I was out sailing I was thinking - "I can't hear that stupid thing again!" and then I realised I had taken the earphones out while I was having lunch and had forgotten to put them back in again!

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elmo said..
Here is my setup which works very nicely for me


The Rocket Player is the trick if you want to listen to tunes as well as Sexy Sadie/Heidi. The standard players DO NOT have volume controls for the player alone, so when you lower the volume on the phone Sadie's volume drops as well. The Rocket player allows you to adjust the volume of the player separately. It takes a few adjustments but you can get the volume differential sorted out quite nicely so you have your tunes playing but Sadie being clearly heard over the top without blasting your ears.
Once the levels are set then you can adjust the volumes for both (at same time) up or down on the earphones them selves or on the phone.

Thanks for the pointer on Rocket Player: now have it installed on the smartphone

Just got back from a mission to the coast. Ran with GPSLogit on Alcatel One Touch Model 4037T Android 4.4.2 phone on left upper arm and 2 GT31 on right upper arm. I have included both doppler and trackpoint measurements as it gives you a good idea how clean the data stream is.

Max and 2 sec were all at the same time stamp of 8:43:50

Max: Phone 42.590 GT31-1 42.181 +/-0.272 GT31-2 42.259 +/-0.253 Trackpoint: Phone: 42.951 GT31-1 42.533 GT31-2 42.566
2 sec: Phone 42.492 GT31-1 42.143 +/-0.272 GT31-2 42.172 +/-0.253 Trackpoint: Phone: 42.685 GT31-1 42.400 GT31-2 42.358
5 x 10 sec: Phone 38.781 GT31-1 38.558 GT31-2 38.563 Trackpoint: Phone: 38.834 GT31-1 38.830 GT31-2 38.875

10 sec run Phone GT31-1 GT31-2
1 9:16:18 203.4m 39.540 202.5m 39.357 +/- 0.255 202.5m 39.356 +/- 0.253
2 9:43:54 201.7m 39.206 199.4m 38.765 +/- 0.289 199.4m 38.757 +/- 0.258
3 9:56:03 200.9m 39.054 199.5m 38.773 +/- 0.286 199.5m 38.782 +/- 0.284
4 9:21.07 196.8m 38.259 195.7m 38.035 +/- 0.291 195.7m 38.004 +/- 0.277
5 9:32:56 194.7m 37.849 194.8m 37.859 +/- 0.265 194.9m 37.877 +/- 0.254

All in all the phone acquits itself pretty well.

see in-depth reply here:

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/GPS-units-acceptable-for-Team-Challenge/