ive been working on light weight footstraps, e,g from high pressure hose , carbon sail cloth and kevlar sail cloth, and the best result so far is kevlar weighing in at 40grms and extremly stiff, with sandy point comeing up maybe some of you guys that's looking at saveing atleast 1/2kg and gaining mabe 1knt on your pb you mite wont to have a go at makeing some

Hi Keef. When I can stand straight upright on my board, look directly down and actually see my feet, I will think about light weight footstraps . Until then, saving a few grams in the straps is probably a bit of overkill for me.

From what I have seen of the speed sailors, they are trying to carry extra weight to improve their performance, rather than shed it. I don't know if the reduced weight of the footstraps would help the performance of the board, but if they are carrying lead weights, then I think the footstraps wouldn't make any difference.

On the other hand, probably for some of the racers, light straps are a great idea.

Cool straps. They'd be good for freestyle too I guess.

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FBRoy said...

Hi Keef. When I can stand straight upright on my board, look directly down and actually see my feet, I will think about light weight footstraps . Until then, saving a few grams in the straps is probably a bit of overkill for me.

From what I have seen of the speed sailors, they are trying to carry extra weight to improve their performance, rather than shed it. I don't know if the reduced weight of the footstraps would help the performance of the board, but if they are carrying lead weights, then I think the footstraps wouldn't make any difference.

On the other hand, probably for some of the racers, light straps are a great idea.

They carry weight for ballast so they can hold down a lot of grunt from the sail. Weight on the board is dead weight that doesn't achieve anything. It still has to be held up and accelerated and to that extent is an impediment.

I think your footstraps look cutting edge.
Although from what I have found at Sp,footstrap adjustment can be critical - if your front strap is too loose then you can loose board control or if your back strap is too tight you will find your heel dragging in the water(if you are on a skinnyass needle) and if you have to pull out a screw driver and waste 10 minutes while it is going off then it could really hurt!

FBroy the reason why i made these strap's is for one, when i made the board i recessed 30mm from the foot strap area so there fore i needed a foam footstrap to replace the volume i lost , and being eva it's closed cell and doesn't take in any water

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NotWal said...

They carry weight for ballast so they can hold down a lot of grunt from the sail. Weight on the board is dead weight that doesn't achieve anything. It still has to be held up and accelerated and to that extent is an impediment.

That's an interesting perspective. Does it really matter where the weight is assuming it doesn't affect board trim?

If you are using your body weight to hold down a large sail and you are coupled to the board through two of the straps, does the weight of the straps and board make much difference at all? If you are on a speed strip where the water is very flat, will it even affect the way the board handles?

If you weren't coupled to the board through the straps, then I might agree that the weight of the straps is an impediment, but I am not so sure.

You are already well above planing speed, so holding up this extra weight is a non-issue, and weight on your body versus weight on the board is still going to affect the acceleration of the board the same amount surely?

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Goo Screw said...

I think your footstraps look cutting edge.
Although from what I have found at Sp,footstrap adjustment can be critical - if your front strap is too loose then you can loose board control or if your back strap is too tight you will find your heel dragging in the water(if you are on a skinnyass needle) and if you have to pull out a screw driver and waste 10 minutes while it is going off then it could really hurt!

hehehehehehehehehe i dont believe you said that GO SCREW have you had a bad day, maybe the winter blues

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keef said...

FBroy the reason why i made these strap's is for one, when i made the board i recessed 30mm from the foot strap area so there fore i needed a foam footstrap to replace the volume i lost , and being eva it's closed cell and doesn't take in any water

Hi Keef. I have no problem with wanting to create lighter straps. I think its a great idea. I just question whether it will help speed sailors. I think for normal day to day blasting around it makes sense.

In the case of Sandy Point, all the sailors are covered in neoprene anyway to stop from freezing, and will be carrying extra weight due to this, so I am suggesting it will probably not improve their times.

How about making them twist-proof? Without needing two holes on each end?

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keef said...

FBroy the reason why i made these strap's is for one, when i made the board i recessed 30mm from the foot strap area so there fore i needed a foam footstrap to replace the volume i lost , and being eva it's closed cell and doesn't take in any water

BTW, is this a new version of the dromedary project? I thought you routed out the footpads on an existing board?

Or is this the ultimate way to reduce weight on a performance board?

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keef said...

Goo Screw said...

I think your footstraps look cutting edge.
Although from what I have found at Sp,footstrap adjustment can be critical - if your front strap is too loose then you can loose board control or if your back strap is too tight you will find your heel dragging in the water(if you are on a skinnyass needle) and if you have to pull out a screw driver and waste 10 minutes while it is going off then it could really hurt!

hehehehehehehehehe i dont believe you said that GO SCREW have you had a bad day, maybe the winter blues

No... I'm serious.
Formula types have got all week to adjust stuff.
We don't have that luxury in the strong wind chasing world!
I'm not paying out,I'm just trying to inspire innovation

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FBRoy said...

NotWal said...

They carry weight for ballast so they can hold down a lot of grunt from the sail. Weight on the board is dead weight that doesn't achieve anything. It still has to be held up and accelerated and to that extent is an impediment.

If you are using your body weight to hold down a large sail and you are coupled to the board through two of the straps, does the weight of the straps and board make much difference at all? If you are on a speed strip where the water is very flat, will it even affect the way the board handles?
soory ill have to agree if your speed sailing loose , you will need the biggest sail

i think you are getting the picture FBroy, you need to beholding down the smallest
sail for your body weight , now think about this FBroy,
how would you go in 40 knts holding down the biggest sail you can standing on two house bricks

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Goo Screw said...

keef said...

Goo Screw said...

I think your footstraps look cutting edge.
Although from what I have found at Sp,footstrap adjustment can be critical - if your front strap is too loose then you can loose board control or if your back strap is too tight you will find your heel dragging in the water(if you are on a skinnyass needle) and if you have to pull out a screw driver and waste 10 minutes while it is going off then it could really hurt!

hehehehehehehehehe i dont believe you said that GO SCREW have you had a bad day, maybe the winter blues

No... I'm serious.

GO SCREW i don't sail at sp and i just take my sailing as it comes so i only need two strap setting's ,and thats one for boot's and without boots but after saying that i just mite be able to get down your way for the speed week

Fbroy, This is how I look at it. Lots of people are prepared to pay an extra $500 dollars getting the "PRO SUPER SPECIAL FRAGILE CONSTRUCTION" and save 300-400 grams when a set of Keefs straps could save you 500 grams at least dead weight for bugger all( just weigh a set of adjustable neoprene wave straps wet and you will get a shock) Overall board weight must be important to people otherwise they would save their money and get the heavier one.
Sailor weight, wetsuits and weight jackets are totally independant to board (strap) weight which is static "dead" weight.
On a speed board lighter weight does not automatically mean faster top speed but it does help getting going and most certainly is noticable in regards to accelleration. Faster accelleration in gusts is going to impact your 10 second or 500 metre speeds so to me it is important.
If lightweight non water absorbing straps are a comfortable fit to your feet, which is really important for control in knarly conditions, then why not?
I am going to be making one for my back strap for sure as I am using an offset strap at the moment ( super narrow tail and tuttle box ) and it's pissing me off. A wide ,lightweight strap likes Keefs that straddles the fin box is just what I need.

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keef said...

FBRoy said...

NotWal said...

They carry weight for ballast so they can hold down a lot of grunt from the sail. Weight on the board is dead weight that doesn't achieve anything. It still has to be held up and accelerated and to that extent is an impediment.

If you are using your body weight to hold down a large sail and you are coupled to the board through two of the straps, does the weight of the straps and board make much difference at all? If you are on a speed strip where the water is very flat, will it even affect the way the board handles?
soory ill have to agree if your speed sailing loose , you will need the biggest sail

i think you are getting the picture FBroy, you need to beholding down the smallest
sail for your body weight , now think about this FBroy,
how would you go in 40 knts holding down the biggest sail you can standing on two house bricks

House bricks? I guess I would have a bit of trouble planing.(that's just a guess though, so don't hold me to it)

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mr love said...

Fbroy, This is how I look at it. Lots of people are prepared to pay an extra $500 dollars getting the "PRO SUPER SPECIAL FRAGILE CONSTRUCTION" and save 300-400 grams when a set of Keefs straps could save you 500 grams at least dead weight for bugger all( just weigh a set of adjustable neoprene wave straps wet and you will get a shock)likes Keefs that straddles the fin box is just what I need.

you know martin some people just don't get the picture , less weight meens early planning when your there whow cares about the weight

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mr love said...

Fbroy, This is how I look at it. Lots of people are prepared to pay an extra $500 dollars getting the "PRO SUPER SPECIAL FRAGILE CONSTRUCTION" and save 300-400 grams when a set of Keefs straps could save you 500 grams at least dead weight for bugger all( just weigh a set of adjustable neoprene wave straps wet and you will get a shock) Overall board weight must be important to people otherwise they would save their money and get the heavier one.
Sailor weight, wetsuits and weight jackets are totally independant to board (strap) weight which is static "dead" weight.
On a speed board lighter weight does not automatically mean faster top speed but it does help getting going and most certainly is noticable in regards to accelleration. Faster accelleration in gusts is going to impact your 10 second or 500 metre speeds so to me it is important.
If lightweight non water absorbing straps are a comfortable fit to your feet, which is really important for control in knarly conditions, then why not?
I am going to be making one for my back strap for sure as I am using an offset strap at the moment ( super narrow tail and tuttle box ) and it's pissing me off. A wide ,lightweight strap likes Keefs that straddles the fin box is just what I need.

Mr love, if a speed sailor was carrying 500grams on his back as extra ballast, vs carrying that extra 500grams as part of his footstraps, which board, rig, and sailor combination would weigh the least? If they weigh the exact same amount, then how could acceleration be any different?

Do you add any ballast as part of speed sailing? Your suggestion of acceleration being compromised would suggest that you would try and reduce your own weight wherever possible. Do you?

You say:

"Sailor weight, wetsuits and weight jackets are totally independant to board (strap) weight which is static "dead" weight."

I am suggesting that in speed sailing, the effect of the footstrap weights aren't that different to any weight that is on the sailor themselves. They are linked via the sailor and in speed sailing you aren't really that separate to the board.

I think for speed sailing, the weight of the board would only affect the ability to get on the plane and after that there would be negligible difference to if the weight was carried as ballast or part of the board.

I think people only buy speed boards that are light because they are only offered that way or they are misinformed (flame suit on.. zip!)...

It would be interesting (to me anyway) to see if a board made to be 10kgs would perform any differently to a board that came in at 5kgs.

Do you think they would make you another copy of the 'love muscle' in polypropylene?

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keef said...

mr love said...

Fbroy, This is how I look at it. Lots of people are prepared to pay an extra $500 dollars getting the "PRO SUPER SPECIAL FRAGILE CONSTRUCTION" and save 300-400 grams when a set of Keefs straps could save you 500 grams at least dead weight for bugger all( just weigh a set of adjustable neoprene wave straps wet and you will get a shock)likes Keefs that straddles the fin box is just what I need.

you know martin some people just don't get the picture , less weight meens early planning when your there whow cares about the weight

Keef, I just can't figure out which way you're leaning with this one? I don't mind either way, as I think it is interesting to consider whether it does make a difference or not.

Are you saying that light straps do or don't make a difference when you are planing?

Your 500 grams on your shoulders is leverage over the rig allowing you to sail with more power. 500 grams at you feet is doing FA and if weight is doing FA then get rid of it as it,s slowing you down.
I agree that acceleration is affected by overall weight and in theory you should be reducing your overall weight as much as possible. But rider weight is used to counterbalance rig loads, especially weight outboard (big head and shoulders) and directly affects the ability to use more powerful rigs( assuming you have the strength). Board weight and any other static weight that can't be used to advantage should be eliminated.
In an ideal world you would have the lightest ,stiffest board possible , be 8 foot tall ,have a 10 kilo body and a 100 kilo head.
Now that would be fast.

i agree, any weight that can be shed in any form of sailing (wave to speed) with out compromising strength is a plus. what i like about the kevlar is the lack of stretch and the strength, are they stiff tho???

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FBRoy said...

Keef, I just can't figure out which way you're leaning with this one? I don't mind either way, as I think it is interesting to consider whether it does make a difference or not.

Are you saying that light straps do or don't make a difference when you are planing?

light strapps don't make a difference when your planing ? but if you have strapps that adds 1/2 a kg to your board you will drop off the plane earlyer

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jsnfok said...

i agree, any weight that can be shed in any form of sailing (wave to speed) with out compromising strength is a plus. what i like about the kevlar is the lack of stretch and the strength, are they stiff tho???

the kevlar is laminated to a stiff hard plastic like mylar eg sail makers templet film

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FBRoy said...

keef said...

FBroy the reason why i made these strap's is for one, when i made the board i recessed 30mm from the foot strap area so there fore i needed a foam footstrap to replace the volume i lost , and being eva it's closed cell and doesn't take in any water

BTW, is this a new version of the dromedary project? I thought you routed out the footpads on an existing board?

Or is this the ultimate way to reduce weight on a performance board?

Select to expand quote

keef said...

FBRoy said...

keef said...

FBroy the reason why i made these strap's is for one, when i made the board i recessed 30mm from the foot strap area so there fore i needed a foam footstrap to replace the volume i lost , and being eva it's closed cell and doesn't take in any water

BTW, is this a new version of the dromedary project? I thought you routed out the footpads on an existing board?

Or is this the ultimate way to reduce weight on a performance board?

FBroy everything i have done too this board is from listening to guys from these forums, like slowboat says, get your feet closer to the water without looseing volume and sink the sail into the deck, martin say's as stiff as you can get it & deep fat chines and cuttouts and 3mm rocker with 1mm tail lift, and i say keep it under 5.5 kgs"wet" well its all done and dusted , gave the board its maiden in a crapp nn/east maybe 18knts in the gusts and straps sunk in ther lulls, there was a guy that traded his isonic 111 for a nash 155 well i can't tell you too much but heres the board[;) sailing at 5.4kgs wet
]

Thats one really interesting shape. Keen to hear how it goes.

Isn't kevlar uv sensitive?

i wasnt aware it was NotWal, but in that case you could paint them

That's an interesting deck shape keef. Are the recesses there to allow thick cushion inserts or are they just to get your feet closer to the water.

The scoop out at the mast track looks good except that it carries too far back. The hull acts structurally like a beam between the main loads. They are down loads at the mast foot and foot straps and upload on the underside between the mast and footstraps. These plus fin stresses are the condition of loading when the board is most highly loaded ie blasting along at full power in chop.

In essence structurally speaking the most efficient profile for a beam like that is thin at either end and thick in the middle. The skin of the board carries all the significant loads so any deviation in the skin in the fore/aft direction will be a stress riser (ie any local bend going across the deck). This board is super light and looking at the deck shape I would expect you will get a crack across the deck at the back of the front recess. I hope I'm wrong. If it were me I would have tried to keep a fairly pure profile down the middle of the board from the mast track to the back foot straps. Foot recesses would have to be kept to either side of this area. I might even be moved to make the middle bit a little stronger than elsewhere so it does most of the work.

Tell us how it goes.

only time will tell NotWell, the board has 5 carbon stringers about 40mm deep, the two on the bottom connect to the fin box and about 1200 and 3 on the deck, the nose stringer is 8mm carbon tubeing and insert with pressure and connected to the front of the mast track, carbon laminate boxes were made for the mast track, fin box and footstrap plugs, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed , if you notice the bottom of the board has been filled with brown micro balloons ,i give the whole board a coat of balloons and sand before glassing

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NotWal said...

That's an interesting deck shape keef. Are the recesses there to allow thick cushion inserts or are they just to get your feet closer to the water.
.

funny you should say that NotWell the origonal intention was to get my heel nice and low but haveing second thoughts i stuck some cushions in just to see how it feels it wont take much to take them out if i need too
when i made the board i had a 4 week deadline for green island ,the deck grip and paint and old pads went on 3 days before , after seeing the weather report i decided to pull the pin so i lost a bit of intersest untill recently, but after rideing it the other day i'm getting really excited