www.google.com.au:443/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-53.088638,-68.231192&spn=0.007552,0.024633&t=h&z=16

Looks kinda weird to have the smooth water on the outside of the bay, but I guess it opens options for both wind directions

Brrrrr! Thought it might have been somewhere warm.

Stop reminding us what a dearth of speedsailing spots we have in WA

I remember years ago (when they had a world speed trial at Woodmans point) someone talking about sailing in the salt evaporation pans up north (Denham I think it was). They were trying to set a world record but I think it was the typical thing of no wind as soon as you say that !

I wonder if anyone has ever tried that again ?

I sailed near shark bay about 1988 and remember the water as very flat but when I look at the old photos it looks choppy. I do remember you sailed parrallal to the shore so it felt like you could go as long as you want and never be in more than waster deep water. The only thing that put me of was the sea snakes making eye contact. You could see them on the bottom, lovely S shapes but when I went over the same one a few times he actually poked his head out of the water and looked at me as I went past. Made for fast water starts !!!

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hardpole said...

I remember years ago (when they had a world speed trial at Woodmans point) someone talking about sailing in the salt evaporation pans up north (Denham I think it was). They were trying to set a world record but I think it was the typical thing of no wind as soon as you say that !

I wonder if anyone has ever tried that again ?

I sailed near shark bay about 1988 and remember the water as very flat but when I look at the old photos it looks choppy. I do remember you sailed parrallal to the shore so it felt like you could go as long as you want and never be in more than waster deep water. The only thing that put me of was the sea snakes making eye contact. You could see them on the bottom, lovely S shapes but when I went over the same one a few times he actually poked his head out of the water and looked at me as I went past. Made for fast water starts !!!

The quest is on to find an undiscovered WA venue

You have a speed venue!!!! Its called Sandy Point The moment there,s an epic day Slowy and friends are onto their friendly travel agent pleading for extra bagage allowances.[}:)]

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hardie said...

hardpole said...

I remember years ago (when they had a world speed trial at Woodmans point) someone talking about sailing in the salt evaporation pans up north (Denham I think it was). They were trying to set a world record but I think it was the typical thing of no wind as soon as you say that !

I wonder if anyone has ever tried that again ?

I sailed near shark bay about 1988 and remember the water as very flat but when I look at the old photos it looks choppy. I do remember you sailed parrallal to the shore so it felt like you could go as long as you want and never be in more than waster deep water. The only thing that put me of was the sea snakes making eye contact. You could see them on the bottom, lovely S shapes but when I went over the same one a few times he actually poked his head out of the water and looked at me as I went past. Made for fast water starts !!!

The quest is on to find an undiscovered WA venue

What are you on about hardie

You have a fine speed strip on your back door.

Another one an hours drive south that you havent even sailed yet

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lao shi said...

Brrrrr! Thought it might have been somewhere warm.

Might be cold, but you can be sure that it's going to be windy that close to the pole!

Last time I passed the the salt evaporation lakes (Lake MCleod) on the way to you know where, there was actually a trench that ran about 3 kms, right direction and everything, only problem was it was only 2 metres wide and a foot deep.

I 'spose you could save up for an excavator and make a West Aussie trench !!!

Mal Wright and Co organised a speed event in late 1987 at Useless Loop salt ponds in Shark Bay.
We sailed several ponds, genberally with about 4.9 and 4.4 1987 NP RAF Speeds.
Top speeds were around 34 or 35 knots from memory - all hand timed over surveyed 500m courses.
The angles were a bit too square and to get clean wind you had to sail a fair way out from the levee.
Hot, dry, salty and thirsty work!!

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yoyo said...

www.google.com.au:443/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-53.088638,-68.231192&spn=0.007552,0.024633&t=h&z=16

Any geologists got an explanation of what we're looking at? A perfectly straight 4km sand spit? Is it a natural formation? Must be. Are the straightish lines at the end of the spit and just to the north sand dunes? Sand dunes aren't usually that continuous?

Certainly an amazing spot - 10 minutes worth of surfing:-

http://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=broke%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Flu7cc%2Ffaro_Punta_Paramo.html&lp=es_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

The dunes to the NW of the spit are actually interspersed with water bodies and if you zoom in right in there are mining activities, incl some open cut stuff - thats perhaps the gold.
If you go into google earth and look to the north, on the coast about 20 km there are 4 white storage tanks running N-S - refinery [enable panoramio] - there is a port [Cullen] there too that deals solely in crude and several offshore platforms - interseting and cold place.
[Not a geologist]

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whippingboy said...

Last time I passed the the salt evaporation lakes (Lake MCleod) on the way to you know where, there was actually a trench that ran about 3 kms, right direction and everything, only problem was it was only 2 metres wide and a foot deep.

I 'spose you could save up for an excavator and make a West Aussie trench !!!

got the excavator(s)..just need the land and some wet stuff to put in it

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Bender said...

hardie said...

hardpole said...

I remember years ago (when they had a world speed trial at Woodmans point) someone talking about sailing in the salt evaporation pans up north (Denham I think it was). They were trying to set a world record but I think it was the typical thing of no wind as soon as you say that !

I wonder if anyone has ever tried that again ?

I sailed near shark bay about 1988 and remember the water as very flat but when I look at the old photos it looks choppy. I do remember you sailed parrallal to the shore so it felt like you could go as long as you want and never be in more than waster deep water. The only thing that put me of was the sea snakes making eye contact. You could see them on the bottom, lovely S shapes but when I went over the same one a few times he actually poked his head out of the water and looked at me as I went past. Made for fast water starts !!!

The quest is on to find an undiscovered WA venue

What are you on about hardie

You have a fine speed strip on your back door.

Another one an hours drive south that you havent even sailed yet

i have to agree with the bent one..hardies is pretty good just need the right ingredients(like every other strip) wind and tide.......its proven to be a decent nmile strip! lets face it 2 sec and 10sec and even 500's are really just show ponie stuff...the mile is where its at!......flame suit on and firmly fastened....

Hear Hear

Thanks 25, then I thought maybe the regular dunes are the result of sand mining or something obvious? The earth's crust throws up some pretty organised features for something just shaped by wind and water sloshing about.

Yes the NM is where it's at. It's the fundamental unit of length on water. My best NM yesterday on Lake Pearly Gherkin had 4 gybes and a tack - 11 knots . Don't know what Hardie is complaining about.

So Pete, is Useless Loop worth another visit?

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yoyo said...

maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-53.088638,-68.231192&spn=0.007552,0.024633&t=h&z=16

G'day YoYo,

I see Slowey has been passing on to you my research for speed spots in South America.

I realised after my trip to Sandy Point for the last 5 weeks that the 500m record would never be broken at the Pit and it is not ideal for a record attempt. The enroaching sand dunes, changing wind patterns and curved course work against its true potential.

Figured there are really only a few good spots left in the world where a windsurfer may break 50 knots over 500 m and it was about time to find them. Looking at weather patterns worldwide and studying local wind effects it made sense to head south into the raging fifties where records show strong winds prevail. The Andes serve to accelerate the downslope winds and funnel them through the Magellan Straight. Historical records show January to be the windiest month with days of 130 kmh winds blasting the area.

There's a place about 120 km NW of the co-ordinates you posted that has a gently curving beach 16 km long with no upwind obstructions. It's on the Northern tip of Tierra del Fuego (Spanish for Land of Fire) www.google.com.au:443/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=-52.801931,-70.015869&spn=0.234548,0.635834&z=11 The airport at Punta Arenas is 60 km upwind and keeps accurate weather records of wind conditions. weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/SCCI.html

Air temp is in the 10-15 C range with nice cool dry air perfect for speedsailing over the Dec/Jan/Feb windiest period. Looking at logistics at the moment to see if its worth a trip south to scope the place out. Crazy thing is "Punta Arenas" is Spanish for "Sandy Point"! Go figure. You gotta love any place that has a forecast that reads windy every day. www.weathercity.com/cl/ma/punta_arenas/ Here's the averages for Nov 07-April 08, Max 66 mph www.wunderground.com/history/airport/SCCI/2007/11/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=30&monthend=3&yearend=2008&req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Roo

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Roo said...

yoyo said...

www.google.com.au:443/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-53.088638,-68.231192&spn=0.007552,0.024633&t=h&z=16

I realised after my trip to Sandy Point for the last 5 weeks that the 500m record would never be broken at the Pit and it is not ideal for a record attempt. The enroaching sand dunes, changing wind patterns and curved course work against its true potential.

Roo

Dunno 'bout that Roo. You did not see the PiT at anywhere near its best. In fact you have exceptionally bad luck for speed conditions when you were here which is quite unusual for this time of the year.

No doubt your quest will turn up other places that are really good though.

After talking extensively to the MI crew and the fastest windsurfer at the Pit, that was the opinion I formed and they concurred. The course is getting too short with the growing sand dunes and the curvature of the course works against you for a 500 m. run. For GPS 10 second runs it is one of the best places in the world but for out and out windsurfing speed records it falls short. Even the MI guys are getting frustrated waiting, it is over 15 years since they first broke the world record there.

We're all protective of our local spots and love to think they are the best in the world so its understandable you may get upset when that opinion is challenged. Even with the Pit at its best the wait for optimum conditions is too long for most people, 2 good days in one year dont increase the odds for breaking records. The kiters understood that and sought out a spot that suited them, windsurfers need to do the same if they have any chance of taking the record back.

I enjoyed my time at Sandy Point and was made to feel most welcome by almost everyone. My family had a fabulous holiday down there and loved the area. To those I had a chance to meet and chat with many thanks for your hospitality.

Roo

burrum heads anyone.

works in any direction and has nearly 5km of flat water to choose from.

reason to learn Russian.Chinese?


www.google.com:443/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode&q=+lat%3D65.4771240841,+lon%3D-178.572755421&sll=74.54333,85.429688&sspn=24.46063,112.5&ie=UTF8&ll=65.451986,-178.561478&spn=0.138356,0.439453&t=h&z=11

That's a most impressive sand spit Choco. 60km long and 100 metres wide. Maybe it's maintained at a stable width by opposing currents? Has a similar form to the one in Sth America widening out at the very tip. Pt Walter in Perth also has similarities.

Choco, you win but it would be even colder than Punta Paramo. The spit is kept straight by the ocean current (or pack ice at your russian spot).

Pete , they used to mine gold at the Paramo spit.

Roo, yes Slowie did mention you were looking at southern Argentina. It surprised me 'cause I knew someone who sailed the canals of TdF on the Chilian side and the topography was quite hilly, the water freezing and the wind often unsailable. It didn't seem like ideal windsurfing/speed conditions so I had a look at Google Earth.

I think the Chilean and Argentine armies may be your biggest hurdle down there.
Apparantly it is a pretty amazing place from a tourist point of view. Especially the Chilean side.

If we are talking about different spots....
Before they built this lot there was just the channels and no bridges. No Island either.
www.google.com.au:443/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode&q=doha+qatar&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=52.786754,114.257813&ie=UTF8&ll=25.353567,51.545105&spn=0.106107,0.22316&t=h&z=13&iwloc=addr


In a northerly Shamal wind the southern channel was sweet as! Just dug out a photo.


The island further out (see google map link)used to give a good run on the opposite tack but you had a long sail home if you broke a fin!

G'day Yoyo,

not as bad in the Magellan Strait as you think, in summer water temp is above 10C and air temp gets up near 15-20C. The local armies are pretty mellow by all accounts, not much trouble after they had the bust up with the Brits over the Falkland/Maldiva Islands! I'll leave my British passport at home if I pop down there. The lower section of TdF is pretty lumpy and bloody cold with the artic current running through there but up north it's very flat and featureless. Contacted a speed sailing buddy down there to see what intel he has on the place, will keep you and Slowey updated.

Roo

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Roo said...

After talking extensively to the MI crew and the fastest windsurfer at the Pit, that was the opinion I formed and they concurred. The course is getting too short with the growing sand dunes and the curvature of the course works against you for a 500 m. run. For GPS 10 second runs it is one of the best places in the world but for out and out windsurfing speed records it falls short. Even the MI guys are getting frustrated waiting, it is over 15 years since they first broke the world record there.

We're all protective of our local spots and love to think they are the best in the world so its understandable you may get upset when that opinion is challenged. Even with the Pit at its best the wait for optimum conditions is too long for most people, 2 good days in one year dont increase the odds for breaking records. The kiters understood that and sought out a spot that suited them, windsurfers need to do the same if they have any chance of taking the record back.

I enjoyed my time at Sandy Point and was made to feel most welcome by almost everyone. My family had a fabulous holiday down there and loved the area. To those I had a chance to meet and chat with many thanks for your hospitality.

Roo

Fair enough comments Roo but MI have quite different requirement to windsurfers.
The advantages of a slightly curved course are many, not the least that you have a better chance of getting the ideal angle to the wind for the run. Another advantage is that there is less tendency for following chop to build as large as on a straight course when the wind is at the optimum angle but this also makes use of GPS speed measurement almost essential. I agree that Sandy Point is not as good as it once was with the extension of the sand dunes. MI's main problem is with this is that we get more West to WSW winds than WSW to SW which is what they need for their tighter running angle. Also, when we do get WSW to SW winds MI are often unable to run because the winds are too strong for them. They are working with a pretty narrow wind requirement of 20-25 knots. The change in the shape of the channel and the dune build up have made their opportunities less because they can't run in West to WSW anymore. That is not the case with windsurfers as we have shown in the last few sessions. But the ideal wind angle for us for 500m is still between about 255 deg and 235 deg which is quite a large range and we can do really good 10 sec speeds in wind between 260 and 220 which is a huge range.
I actually think Walvis bay would suit MI far better than windsurfers and would suit them better than Sandy apart form the logistics of getting all their gear and crew there.
I agree there are better places in the world for consistency of wind or length of run but not many go close to the Pit for easy accessibility and versatility. For record chasing, where one has limited time to wait around for the perfect conditions, it is not ideal. If you live within a few hours drive (or flying time) and have the ability to drop everything and be there on the half a dozen or so days in the year when it is epic it takes some beating.
It was great to finally meet and chat with you Roo and I am glad to hear that you enjoyed your stay even though you were a bit unlucky with the weather. I hope to see you back here again and hopefully score one of those epic days with us.

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Ian K said...

That's a most impressive sand spit Choco. 60km long and 100 metres wide. Maybe it's maintained at a stable width by opposing currents? Has a similar form to the one in Sth America widening out at the very tip. Pt Walter in Perth also has similarities.

I think it maybe longer than 60km..it follows the shoreline for quite a distance.

I recon' you need to talk to a Marine Hydrologist Ian. Or a Geographer. My theory is that there is a strong north to south current and of course there are prevailing westerly winds. That place certainly seems to have enormous potential given that it is one of the most consistently windy places in the world. NW and SW winds would be pretty close to the best angle and I am sure they are very common. Another advantage of being so far south is that in summer the days will be really long, giving you lots of options to use the best winds and tides.
Of course, a satellite picture is one thing. Getting on the ground to check out the terrain of the sand spit and the depth of the water are another. Looks reasonably accessible though. It looks like evidence of sand mining close by in the satellite images.

That unbelievably long sand spit in north eastern Russia is a different matter. Not sure that you would get suitable winds on that one but there are a couple of smaller ones nearby that might have better winds angles and be more accesable (Although I think that is all relative because that looks mega remote to me).

Wikapedia say of Puna Arenas:

Climate

The seasonal temperature in Punta Arenas is greatly moderated by its proximity to the ocean, with weather.com specifying average lows in July near 1 °C (30.2 °F) and highs in January of 14 °C (57 °F). This is not to say that it is known for stable constant temperatures, only small variability with season. Punta Arenas is also quite dry, with only 43 millimetres (1.7 in) of rain in its wettest month of May. Among Chileans the city is also known for its strong winds (up to 130 km/hour). Winds tend to be strongest during the summer when city officials put up ropes in the downtown area to assist with unique wind currents created by the buildings.