I am a windsurfer and love it so much. I joined GPSTC a few years back and have found it to be fantastic for me. I have suffered from mental illness for many years, there is no doubt that this community group of people has helped me so much. The more I get to know people in this community the more I realise that I am not alone, I am supported and encouraged by this terrific group of people from all over Australia and Internationally. I don't exactly know who are the main people that came up with this idea, but I am extremely grateful, without knowing they have kept me going. Recently I have taken up Wing Foiling, so I am windsurfing much less and find myself slipping away from the community that helped me so much. I have not been posting my Wing Foiling sessions in Team Challenge as someone mentioned to me it is not allowed. Is this in fact true? How to others feel about it?

The GPSTC advisory committee has refused to allow wing posts under the argument that it is too similar to kiting. Note that many race events include windsurf, windfoil and wingfoil, but no kites , and no kite events include winging as far as I know.
This situation has alienated some team members that have moved to winging and would have loved to keep posting and be in touch with their other team members. I find it personally very mean, given that winging does not give any unfair advantage to the team scores and would only help the social aspect of the GPSTC.
One way around would be if you include your session scores, tracks etc. as a comment on someone else's session, but you would not be able to post if you are the only one that day

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powersloshin said..
The GPSTC advisory committee has refused to allow wing posts under the argument that it is too similar to kiting. Note that many race events include windsurf, windfoil and wingfoil, but no kites , and no kite events include winging as far as I know.
This situation has alienated some team members that have moved to winging and would have loved to keep posting and be in touch with their other team members. I find it personally very mean, given that winging does not give any unfair advantage to the team scores and would only help the social aspect of the GPSTC.
One way around would be if you include your session scores, tracks etc. as a comment on someone else's session, but you would not be able to post if you are the only one that day

I entirely agree with you Georgio. It makes no sense to allow windfoil session posting but disallow wingfoil sessions.

+1. It's a disappointing attitude, but there's no willingness for change. What is needed is a new, more accommodating GPS community.

Gosh, they must not have noticed that wingfoiling does NOT include long lines.

I get it. Have a look at this international group; nothing but positive vibes. m.facebook.com/groups/windsurfdistancechallange/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF

GPSTC and KA72 are dying. Wouldn't it be great if Seabreeze had it's own GPS competition where you could tag your category (wing, windfoil, kite, fin) and run a few, less device sensitive speed categories (5 x 10, NM, dist., no 2s). No teams, just regions/states. Just dreaming.

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Stretchy said..
GPSTC and KA72 are dying. Wouldn't it be great if Seabreeze had it's own GPS competition where you could tag your category (wing, windfoil, kite, fin) and run a few, less device sensitive speed categories (5 x 0, NM, dist., no 2s). No teams, just regions/states. Just dreaming.

See link of Mikey's above. Great community of like minded people

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Mr Keen said..

Stretchy said..
GPSTC and KA72 are dying. Wouldn't it be great if Seabreeze had it's own GPS competition where you could tag your category (wing, windfoil, kite, fin) and run a few, less device sensitive speed categories (5 x 0, NM, dist., no 2s). No teams, just regions/states. Just dreaming.

See link of Mikey's above. Great community of like minded people

Yes, I'm on it. Distance only though, I like a bit of speed!!

www.gps-wingfoiling.com/

It's quite sad to see that this decision seems to be written in stone. There are probably some on GPSTC who are into it for the competition, but many members here in the US and in Oz that I have met are at least as interested in the social aspects. At a lot of places, conditions are much better suited for winging than for speed surfing on most days, so many speedsurfers wing most days. That includes the Perth/Mandurah region, which happens to have some great speed spots.

Excluding wing posts makes absolutely no sense to me. Sure, it's different from speed surfing, but so is windsurfing in waves or on longboards. But I loved to see the postings from others, in our team and from other teams I got to know, just to see what was going on in their water life. Wing sessions are slow; not even the distance numbers are impressive by any means. What's the purpose of not allowing posts? They'll never really matter for the competition aspect, anyway. Stroppo is one of the fastest wingers I know, but even he is hard pressed to do more than 25 knots with a wing (while getting mid-40s every time he takes the slapper out, it seems). Not being allowed to post wing sessions really discourages windsurf postings, too.

The distance group on Facebook has filled in a little bit on the social aspect. Both Nina and I are posting there on a regular basis now. But as Stretch pointed out, seeing all the different speed categories is missing, among other things.

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choco said..
www.gps-wingfoiling.com/

Yeah, I tried this a couple of years ago when the last GPSTC hissy fit occurred,, but I found the mechanics of registering a post too difficult for my simple little mind so I gave up. Just tried again based on your prompt, uploaded yesterday's track, put all my details in (with difficulty), got right to the end, then ... Then nothing! There's no post button or any way of sending it. So frustrating.

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Stretchy said..

choco said..
www.gps-wingfoiling.com/

Yeah, I tried this a couple of years ago when the last GPSTC hissy fit occurred,, but I found the mechanics of registering a post too difficult for my simple little mind so I gave up. Just tried again based on your prompt, uploaded yesterday's track, put all my details in (with difficulty), got right to the end, then ... Then nothing! There's no post button or any way of sending it. So frustrating.

Sounds strange, my coros watch automatically uploads to the site after a session and I just have to add details of gear, spot etc

I believe the decision to not allow wing foiling was made some time ago when the sport was in its infancy.

It is a great shame as quite a few of my good friends are no longer involved in Team Challenge as they have made the switch to winging. At my local spot we have quite a few young guys and girls who have started to wing foil, several of them are interested in speed and have purchased either Mini Motions or DIY approved loggers. It saddens me that I can't invite them to join our great community.

Over the last year or so I have spoken to many people about this issue. Including one of the founders of Team Challenge who was supportive of the idea of allowing winging posts, he reminded me that the philosophy of Team challenge was inclusiveness.

Since then I have spoken to several of the state representatives for Team Challenge. Whilst there was some disagreement the majority at least verbally supported the idea.

I have written to Team Challenge requesting they reconsider their decision.

I agree. I don't currently wing but may in the future.
I love the social side of the gpstc. It's sad to have already lost members who no longer post.
I can see many going to winging in the future and the social platform will be very empty..

OK, question has gone out to the advisory committee. Not sure how long it will take for them to decide, but I'll get back with the decision when they do.

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decrepit said..
OK, question has gone out to the advisory committee. Not sure how long it will take for them to decide, but I'll get back with the decision when they do.

Thanks very much decrepit.

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decrepit said..
OK, question has gone out to the advisory committee. Not sure how long it will take for them to decide, but I'll get back with the decision when they do.

Mike,

Do any of the advisory committee have winging experience? If not, then I'm sure there are a number of GPSTC members who do, who would welcome answering any questions or requests for information during the advisory committee's deliberations.

Approval would be good news... i can not imagine one logical reason why not....

I sense I am about to become very unpopular but I am having trouble seeing how any of this makes sense.

Some suggested points for thought/discussion:

Essentially, a website established by windsurfers to facilitate a speed competition for windsurfers is now being expected to transform itself for the convenience of a few users who don't want to windsurf any more?

Some people have changed to winging, but are hoping GPSTC will accommodate them for the sake of their social connections?

When the wingfoilers decide they would rather play lawn bowls will you expect GPSTC to accommodate that as well?

KA72 caters to all sorts of GPS tracks, why not be happy with that? It has a comments function. It's ready made to support a wingfoiling community. Perhaps that's a solution?

Ultimately it's no skin of my nose is GPSTC decides to include winging, but I am genuinely bemused by this idea that the users of a free service think it's OK to pressure that service to change its focus. The same thought arises whenever the annual "you should allow this shizzy GPS unit from China to be used" fistfight rears it's ugly head.

I can't see that there is any relationship between wing foiling and windsurfing, I really can't. Unless you are all suggesting that any form of wind powered water sport should be included?

The history and philosophy of the GPSTC is here: gpsteamchallenge.com.au/pages/about It's worth a read.

^ plenty of good reasons stated above, but no real negatives. The value of GPSTC is the community it provides. KA72 doesn't do this as there's no good mechanism for commenting on posts.

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said..

Stretchy said..

choco said..
www.gps-wingfoiling.com/

Yeah, I tried this a couple of years ago when the last GPSTC hissy fit occurred,, but I found the mechanics of registering a post too difficult for my simple little mind so I gave up. Just tried again based on your prompt, uploaded yesterday's track, put all my details in (with difficulty), got right to the end, then ... Then nothing! There's no post button or any way of sending it. So frustrating.

Sounds strange, my coros watch automatically uploads to the site after a session and I just have to add details of gear, spot etc

Jan from gps-speedsurfing contacted me and provided very helpful advice. I'm now successfully uploading

looks good guys, 5 out of 7 have voted, all positive. So I guess we can say wingers are in.

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Shifu said..
I sense I am about to become very unpopular but I am having trouble seeing how any of this makes sense.

Not at all, you have green thumbs, and you raise some good points.
But the GTC was formed 16 years ago, and things change.
for example the old admin has virtually disappeared from the scene, and been handed over to an advisory group.
I don't think we should be locked in by old ideology.

It seems we have a clear majority of the advisory group in favour of letting wingers post their sessions.

This may not sit well with the hardcore speed sailors, that originally helped set up the GPSTC.
But I don't think it was ever meant to be exclusively for the elite few.
It has given a lot of ordinary sailors an extra perspective and source of enjoyment and community.
Opening the site up for more disciplines will continue that.

This is fantastic news. I would like to thank the advisory group for thinking of the wishes of wingers, as I know the majority of the advisors do not wing themselves.

Great news , now I can have some fun rivalry with the local windfoilers ....

Can people quote they are winging and what gear they use when they post please?
That way we know whether it's a wing session or a windless windfoiling one.

This is just unbelievable. This was all completely done and dusted by the Committee.what.some two years ago! Wing foiling would NOT be included in GPSTC, noting it's a WINDSURFING SPEED COMPETITION, not a bloody see how slow you can foil around a bay ffs. Now..what.suddenly the committee that refuses to change anything despite the howls from the community about a number of issues (like GPS units) up and changes this decision. The world has gone mad!

Maybe they could add a mountain bike section? Power walking? Or as mentioned above lawn bowls?

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bc said..
Great news , now I can have some fun rivalry with the local windfoilers ....

Bring it!!! Might have to start thinking about my speed on foil now

Good one, common sense has prevailed. I am sure it will also help wingers to progress and enjoy being part of a team like it has helped windsurfers and windfoilers
P.S: It is called GPS TEAM challenge, not Speed challenge

Most winger foilers wanting to post to gpstc probably already have an approved gps device to use, so happy days. But before encouraging further people to join teams to post wingfoil sessions, we need to address the issue that supplies of new approved gps's remain limited, unless you are up for making your own.

There are 100s of mini motions in Australia now, and there must be a few not being used, it would be good to see some hitting the second hand market to help alleviate the shortage