Do you sail them differently?
How do they differ in performance (say ridden by the same good rider)- upwind , chop etc etc

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
Do you sail them differently?
How do they differ in performance (say ridden by the same good rider)- upwind , chop etc etc

Yes, I will be also interested to know if we could utilize speed board for such activity as 1 hour or distance ?
(instead of slalom) How comfortable will be over long distance ?
I do expect to have me first ever proper speed board soon and wonder what could I do beside simple 2 s run.

From my limited observations the average speed board is ~70% of the width and ~70% of the volume of your average slalom board. If you are considering getting one I would reconsider because you gonna have a bad time.

I am quite fresh to the speed board game. Admittedly my speed board is of the larger variety (a JP54) but I was very surprised by what you can do with them.

My usual ride when going for a good alpha is a 92L slalom board, second outing on the speed board I decided to "see what happened" if you tried to Jibe one of these and ended up within .07 of my alpha PB.
Could certainly feel more of what is happening under the board and didn't seem to have any issue maintaining speed through the turn and flip.
So for any flat... or sort of flat water, in high wind I would certainly give the speed board a go. Not sure if the same can be said for smaller speed boards.

You will find that the fastest alphas and 1-hrs, are usually done on a speed board (of varying size...). This is because in strong wind and flat water, you go faster... it is as simple as that. [ Obviously, if the water aint flat or the wind aint strong, then it wont matter in any case, as you wont be pushing PB territory. ]

ie: if you manage to do *any* gybe on your speed board, you probably will beat your PB. Same rule applies for not dropping any gybes in your 1-hr.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
Do you sail them differently?
How do they differ in performance (say ridden by the same good rider)- upwind , chop etc etc

No you don't sail a speedboard any different from how you sail a slalomboard. Only thing you have to keep in mind is that slalomboards are designed to handle chop a lot better than a speedboard. Speedboards are designed to give optimum performance in flat water. You can sail them in chop but the ride will be harder to control.

Also you have to use different fins. In general using a <54 cm speedboard you either use a downwind slalomfin or a dedicated speedfin. A speedfin won't give that good upwind performance and won't lift the nose of the board up that high. Same with a downwind slalomfin but depending on the rake you might get the nose up more.

On the other hand the crosswind speed/ accelleration of a speedboard/fin combo will be a lot faster than any slalomboard. Point your speedboard downwind and you will discover an enormous speed sensation a slalomboard won't give you. A slalomboard in general is about maintaining control in rough water on downwind stretches. With enough skill it is easy to control. A speedboard on the other hand is designed around maintaining control in flat water with the accelleration downwind can easily be described as a slalomboard on steroides. That at first can be overwhelming and feel out of control. But once you get used to it the level of control is the same as with a slalomboard you just have to keep in mind that everything is happening a lot faster than on your slalomboard so your reaction time is a shorter and your focus should top notch.

Select to expand quote

CJW said..
From my limited observations the average speed board is ~70% of the width and ~70% of the volume of your average slalom board. If you are considering getting one I would reconsider because you gonna have a bad time.

As a lightweight I am looking for something in the 80 ltre range? ( prob looking for one for wind range 20-25kts as i have the Starboard acid 68ltres for nuking conditions)..Although I have only sailed it once it is pretty narrow and flat rocker and seems to be a much faster option than my other waveboard..
I'm dreaming at the moment but considering maybe a Excocet RS about 80 or 90 ltres? Can you get speed boards that large?
The reason Im asking is someone in the team commented that someone else was riding their speed board like a slalom board and I had never realised there was much difference in sailing them..
PS - I'd only be using whichever I get in dead flat type water like Budgy or Canton..

Select to expand quote

TheTank said..

sboardcrazy said..
Do you sail them differently?
How do they differ in performance (say ridden by the same good rider)- upwind , chop etc etc

No you don't sail a speedboard any different from how you sail a slalomboard. Only thing you have to keep in mind is that slalomboards are designed to handle chop a lot better than a speedboard. Speedboards are designed to give optimum performance in flat water. You can sail them in chop but the ride will be harder to control.

Also you have to use different fins. In general using a <54 cm speedboard you either use a downwind slalomfin or a dedicated speedfin. A speedfin won't give that good upwind performance and won't lift the nose of the board up that high. Same with a downwind slalomfin but depending on the rake you might get the nose up more.

On the other hand the crosswind speed/ accelleration of a speedboard/fin combo will be a lot faster than any slalomboard. Point your speedboard downwind and you will discover an enormous speed sensation a slalomboard won't give you. A slalomboard in general is about maintaining control in rough water on downwind stretches. With enough skill it is easy to control. A speedboard on the other hand is designed around maintaining control in flat water with the accelleration downwind can easily be described as a slalomboard on steroides. That at first can be overwhelming and feel out of control. But once you get used to it the level of control is the same as with a slalomboard you just have to keep in mind that everything is happening a lot faster than on your slalomboard so your reaction time is a shorter and your focus should top notch.

Thanks . That's a good explanation. Ok so less than 54cms what sort of litres size is that? I don't really know the width relation thing.
I don't understand the nose height reference ( not that experienced).. is that where they are supposed to get up on their tail?
Ps I posted my first reply before i read all these so some questions have been answered. thanks.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Thanks . That's a good explanation. Ok so less than 54cms what sort of litres size is that? I don't really know the width relation thing.
I don't understand the nose height reference ( not that experienced).. is that where they are supposed to get up on their tail?
Ps I posted my first reply before i read all these so some questions have been answered. thanks.

Suitable board width, will depend on your bodyweight. For reference:

- if you are 100kg, then your "high-wind slalom board" is probably around 100l
- 70kg, slalom board is around 70l
- 100kg, speed board is around 80l
- 70kg, speed board is around 60l

=> fin size is proportional to a combination of fin-type, sail size and board-width, ie: dont take "54cm" as the golden rule. In other words, if you have a wide board, you probably need a bigger fin.


Nose height ... your Acid will have a very high nose rocker -> when you are travelling fast, this will cause more air to be compressed under board (resulting more drag and more lift), thus usually resulting in lower top-end speed.

A speed or slalom board has less nose rocker, but if you are using it in rough water it can result in you plowing into oncoming chop.

The difference between what is a 'speed' board and what is a 'small slalom' board overlaps a bit depending on the size of the sailor, but the essential characteristics are a bit different.

To me a 'speed' board is one that is designed for maximum speed on a flattish and broad course in strong winds of 28-30 knots +. It is not designed to float you and it has no compromises to make it better to Gybe. It is not designed to be fast on a beam reach (although in flat water it can be), but is optimised for speed on a broad run.
All this means it is narrower overall, had a proportionately narrower tail and lower nose rocker than a slalom board.

A pure speed board is not going to be faster for Alphas than a slalom board except in the strongest winds on flat water where a slalom board will be getting flighty over 30 knots beam reaching and hard to sink into a turn at well over 30 knots of speed. It will be much harder to keep speed out of the gybe and accelerate but a highly skilled rider in very strong winds may make it do this OK.

For me at 75KG and 176cm a speed board is under 60 litres and under 44 cm width. (CA40). Anything 45cm to 50cm is too large and slower to be a 'speed' board for me and not as good for "slalom' type use.The difference on the speed course is like getting another gear and amounts to 5-10 knots of top speed. Having said that, I have had a lot of fun on 45-50cm wide boards in 25-30 knots winds, but the smaller boards are always faster for me by knots on the ideal course!

For me, a 'Slalom' board is somewhere around 50 - 60cm wide and 80-90 litres. My all time favourite is the IS87 for winds in the 16-28knots range (sails 5.4m to 6.6m). For 12-16 knots winds I need something about 100-110 litres and 68-70cm width (6.6m to 7.5m). The slalom board is faster around a slalom course, faster through and out of gybes, can almost float me for an emergency uphaul, has given me most of my best Alphas up to 27 knots and will go high 30's on the speed course regularly. I have almost accidentally got over 40 knots peaks on it a couple of times in fluke conditions. If I am on a 5.4m sail and do a high 30's run on the slalom board, I will go over 40 knots immediately when I switch to the speed board. I can run the slalom board at 30 knots through fairly mild open water chop reasonably confidently whereas the speed board would be out of control, or very hairy! I rarely use a fin deeper than 20cm in the speed board or a sail larger than 5.4m.

The exception is that I have used my older, wider SB IS50 speed board (46.5cm wide x about 50 litres) for my best 1hr on Lake George (28.8kts) and one of my best at Sandy Point with a 22cm fin and 5m sail on 30 knots of wind where the larger slalom board was a bit too much for me and that wind and speed. I also did my potentially fastest Alpha 500's in that 1 hour in the 28kts+ but the radius/proximity was outside the 50m limit! In the ones where I made the proximity circle I lost more speed. The extra width and slightly wider tail on that board made it easier to run a slightly larger fin and keep speed through gybes than I could on my CA40. Top speeds on that board in the pure speed course downwind at Sandy Point were 2-4 knots lower than the CA40 but may be closer with the latest fins.

I must emphasise that the size of what is a 'speed' board and what is a 'slalom' board is directly related to the size of the rider and there will be little or no advantage if it can't be sailed broad, in strong wind on flattish water. But is is more than just the size or width of the board that separates the two types.

I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..
I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

The truth is they don't make slalom or speed boards with people of our weight in mind. Anything we use is going to be a compromise. You have been getting really good speeds out of your acid and Pocket. They have the advantage of being comfy in chop too. You have me thinking about getting one! With more use and experience you will be able to get better speeds out of them without spending more money (I know budget is important to you).

Ladies my Carbon Art Speed 40 would be spot on. Yes it's small, but it eats chop and is very user friendly. Its going cheap too

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..
I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

The truth is they don't make slalom or speed boards with people of our weight in mind. Anything we use is going to be a compromise. You have been getting really good speeds out of your acid and Pocket. They have the advantage of being comfy in chop too. You have me thinking about getting one! With more use and experience you will be able to get better speeds out of them without spending more money (I know budget is important to you).

Everyone says slalom boards will be faster so as I'm not getting any younger figured it might make getting PB's easier.. I won't be using it in chop.
I'm not ready to buy as yet just researching. I haven't really had a good go with the acid yet..it will be for 25kts + which we don't get that often at peel st..the slalom board will probably be more for those 20-25kts days I think. Pity you have to restrict how many boards you have due to storage and carrying capacity..
Interesting topic. Thanks for info.

Select to expand quote

Bender said..
Ladies my Carbon Art Speed 40 would be spot on. Yes it's small, but it eats chop and is very user friendly. Its going cheap too

Cripes it looks a weapon!

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..
I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

The truth is they don't make slalom or speed boards with people of our weight in mind. Anything we use is going to be a compromise. You have been getting really good speeds out of your acid and Pocket. They have the advantage of being comfy in chop too. You have me thinking about getting one! With more use and experience you will be able to get better speeds out of them without spending more money (I know budget is important to you).

Everyone says slalom boards will be faster so as I'm not getting any younger figured it might make getting PB's easier.. I won't be using it in chop.
I'm not ready to buy as yet just researching. I haven't really had a good go with the acid yet..it will be for 25kts + which we don't get that often at peel st..the slalom board will probably be more for those 20-25kts days I think. Pity you have to restrict how many boards you have due to storage and carrying capacity..
Interesting topic. Thanks for info.

I know a lot of GPS sailors who have changed from slalom boards to free ride/freerace boards because they found them more comfortable. In general comfort = speed, up to a point.
It depends on what style of board you like. You have a wave background so you probably feel comfortable with wave sails and wave boards. Personally I have always had slalom boards so I feel best on a slalom board and prefer slalom to freeride. I feel very uncomfortable on wave boards.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Bender said..
Ladies my Carbon Art Speed 40 would be spot on. Yes it's small, but it eats chop and is very user friendly. Its going cheap too

Cripes it looks a weapon!

and only ridden by a little old lady on sundays.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..
I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

The truth is they don't make slalom or speed boards with people of our weight in mind. Anything we use is going to be a compromise. You have been getting really good speeds out of your acid and Pocket. They have the advantage of being comfy in chop too. You have me thinking about getting one! With more use and experience you will be able to get better speeds out of them without spending more money (I know budget is important to you).

Everyone says slalom boards will be faster so as I'm not getting any younger figured it might make getting PB's easier.. I won't be using it in chop.
I'm not ready to buy as yet just researching. I haven't really had a good go with the acid yet..it will be for 25kts + which we don't get that often at peel st..the slalom board will probably be more for those 20-25kts days I think. Pity you have to restrict how many boards you have due to storage and carrying capacity..
Interesting topic. Thanks for info.

There are very few, if any proper slalom boards around below about 80 litres. One notable exception I know of was the Prokids Sonic from starboard and there was also the Prokids S-Type which was more freerace orientated. I have had both, well, I still have the PK Sonic.

I would not recommend either for anyone over 60 KG as a speed/slalom board. The PK S-Type is buoyant and quick and easy to ride but gets fluttery at speeds in the mid to high 30's. A bit too wide for high speeds. But great for a light sailor for fun freeride. The PK Sonic is a great little slalom board for a 40-55KG person. But it didn't work very well as a speed board because it simply has to much nose rocker over a very short length. I think I got it to 40 knots but is was no where near as easy and comfortable as the IS50 I replaced it with, on which I immediately got low 40's. The short rocker flat also slows it quickly in gybes with heavier sailors. Note that Ian Fox had one of the prototype PK Sonics which had a noticeably lower nose rocker and this got him some mid 40's speeds regularly. I made plenty of offers to buy it but that wasn't possible!

Which brings me to the IS50. I highly recommend this board as a small slalom/speed board for lightweight adults. It has quite low nose rocker but this is fine on flattish water and helps make it easy to get going and hold speed in lulls and out of Gybes. It is 217cm 46.5cm wide and 50 liters, not too narrow so as to make it hard to sail with adequate foot room for gybing and a little bit wider in the tail than things like to CA 40.

Last I looked the odd one of these comes up for sale second hand from time to time at quite reasonable prices.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..
I weigh c 63 - 65kgs ( depending on how much junk food I've been into..) so I think the slalom option will suit me. Surely they should go fast enough..I'm not likely to get much above 35kts pb's..
The acid has a remarkably straight rockerline compared to the Pocket wave and is pretty narrow..

The truth is they don't make slalom or speed boards with people of our weight in mind. Anything we use is going to be a compromise. You have been getting really good speeds out of your acid and Pocket. They have the advantage of being comfy in chop too. You have me thinking about getting one! With more use and experience you will be able to get better speeds out of them without spending more money (I know budget is important to you).

Everyone says slalom boards will be faster so as I'm not getting any younger figured it might make getting PB's easier.. I won't be using it in chop.
I'm not ready to buy as yet just researching. I haven't really had a good go with the acid yet..it will be for 25kts + which we don't get that often at peel st..the slalom board will probably be more for those 20-25kts days I think. Pity you have to restrict how many boards you have due to storage and carrying capacity..
Interesting topic. Thanks for info.

There are very few, if any proper slalom boards around below about 80 litres. One notable exception I know of was the Prokids Sonic from starboard and there was also the Prokids S-Type which was more freerace orientated. I have had both, well, I still have the PK Sonic.

I would not recommend either for anyone over 60 KG as a speed/slalom board. The PK S-Type is buoyant and quick and easy to ride but gets fluttery at speeds in the mid to high 30's. A bit too wide for high speeds. But great for a light sailor for fun freeride. The PK Sonic is a great little slalom board for a 40-55KG person. But it didn't work very well as a speed board because it simply has to much nose rocker over a very short length. I think I got it to 40 knots but is was no where near as easy and comfortable as the IS50 I replaced it with, on which I immediately got low 40's. The short rocker flat also slows it quickly in gybes with heavier sailors. Note that Ian Fox had one of the prototype PK Sonics which had a noticeably lower nose rocker and this got him some mid 40's speeds regularly. I made plenty of offers to buy it but that wasn't possible!

Which brings me to the IS50. I highly recommend this board as a small slalom/speed board for lightweight adults. It has quite low nose rocker but this is fine on flattish water and helps make it easy to get going and hold speed in lulls and out of Gybes. It is 217cm 46.5cm wide and 50 liters, not too narrow so as to make it hard to sail with adequate foot room for gybing and a little bit wider in the tail than things like to CA 40.

Last I looked the odd one of these comes up for sale second hand from time to time at quite reasonable prices.

Interesting. One of my team mates had an iS50 but sold it because it was hard to get it going in our shallow weedy speed spots. Being so low in volume it would sink and get stuck in the mud and weed. Any ideas for getting it going in shallow water?

Also, I notice all your top speeds are on your Ca40. When would you use the iS50?

Yep. Be a smaller, lighter person!

But if it is really shallow where you are starting and you have enough wind to justify the small board, just take a big step forward, stand the rig up to catch the wind and jump on. Or if it's too muddy to do that, try water starting hanging your weight on the sail and your feet out of the straps evenly over the center of float.

I use the IS50 for Lake George 1 hr's and at Sandy if it is SW to SSW and 30+ knots for 1hr and Alpha. Pity your team mate sold it. See if you can find one to borrow and try yourself.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Yep. Be a smaller, lighter person!

But if it is really shallow where you are starting and you have enough wind to justify the small board, just take a big step forward, stand the rig up to catch the wind and jump on. Or if it's too muddy to do that, try water starting hanging your weight on the sail and your feet out of the straps evenly over the center of float.

I use the IS50 for Lake George 1 hr's and at Sandy if it is SW to SSW and 30+ knots for 1hr and Alpha.

Thanks. Definitely some food for thought there. Another team mate now has the iS 50. I may ask if I may try it some time. I probably need to improve my gybing first.