I thought I would put a few pictures and ideas together that might be helpful.

My original experience with the first model Motion was a mixture of excitement and devastation.

Excitement because testing revealed that it was, in many ways, the very best GPS device I had seen by quite a large margin. 10Hz, multi- GNSS, with exceptionally well thought out software and user interface, and very accurate, consistent and clean results.

Devastation, because just as I was getting really attached to it, I lost it in a high speed crash at over 40 knots. It came out of the neoprene arm band and sank. I spent hours crawling along the shallows searching for it with no luck whatsoever.

Julien was just as surprised as I was, and immediately offered to replace it. He also initiated a redesign of the body to include slots for a strap and a new armband to prevent separation.

It took some considerable time to get the replacement for reasons well documented elsewhere in these forums, but true to Julien's word, it eventually arrived a couple of months ago. It was my off season for sailing so it has not had much time on the water, but I have tested it skiing and Motorcycle riding and it has proven to be excellent. The only practical difference from the original design is in the software, which needed to be redeveloped for the new build and does not yet have all of the features of the original. Julien assures us he will gradually add those features through firmware updates as he catches up with a large queue of backorders and gets the time to get back to software development. In the meantime, it has all the basic features to allow it to be very user friendly for most windsurfing purposes.

Here are my thoughts on wearing them:

My highest recommendation is to find a way to wear it/them (and any other) gps on to top of your head. The reason is simply that this gives it the very best possible sky view (satellite view) for best reception of the maximum number of satellites received. I have done a huge amount of comparison and experimentation with this over the last 14 years with various devices starting with the GT-11 and GT-31, and the evidence is really clear. That position produces the very best results. ie. The most reliably trustworthy data.

Here is the same helmet I have been using for all those years. It is a Protec action sports helmet, with the advantage of a thick enough foam shell to accomodate a cavity that was originally sized to hold two GT-11's. It easily holds two Motion LCD's with room for extra foam padding between the devices and the top of my head, and even more easily holds the two Mini Motions that I have been using for a couple of seasons now. Just for convenience, I put the Mini's in a ziplock bag, but there is really no need for any waterproofing as there was with other devices. I use a few blocks of old flexible lifejacket foam to pack them in place.





Two Mini Motion Loggers and some foam padding in zip lock bag:


Folded and packed into helmet:


close up:


NOTE: They need to be mounted with the antenna side against the plastic shell of the helmet! The plastic shell does not bock the radio signals.

Here are two LCD Motions inserted in the cavity with the screens against the shell and packed in with the blocks of foam. I will place a sheet of the same foam over them under the liner in actual use:


A close up of the same. NOTE that they are jammed at an angle to each other which effectively prevents the buttons being squeezed by the pressure holding them in place.



And here with the lining tucked back in to cover them as I use it:



I will wear them this way for testing and comparison, but since they are LCD Motions, they are better worn on the Bicep where they can be read. I plan to continue to use the Mini Motions in the helmet for normal use.

Now, I understand that this method wearing is a stretch too far for many users, and it is true, and my testing confirms, that quite reasonable data can be obtained from wearing your device on the Bicep in the windsurfing situation. That is definitely the next best location. The Motion LCD and Mini loggers come with arm straps to facilitate this and work quite well.

The only problem is that it is still possible for the device to become dislodged and lost off your arm in a big crash. The Motion devices don't float, and neither of the arm bands has enough buoyancy to make tham float, so some other strategy may be required if you want to be completely safe.

The obvious one is some sort of tether string attached to your wetsuit, impact vest or harness.

Here is the arm strap that comes with the new LCD Motions:




The arm band strap threads through a plate with slots on the back of the device body and through the neoprene padding.



Below is the original LCD Motion arm band. It held the device in a moulded rubber piece. The GPS was inserted in through an overlapping flap on the back. We thought there was no way for the device to come out of it, but I was proved wrong when, in the high speed crash, the arm band rolled down my arm, exposing the slot on the back and somehow enabling it to be ejected that way. I have modified it by cutting two small slots in the backing material to allow an extra strap to be passed through which should prevent it being ejected.This would be safer, but would still need a tether in case it came off the arm altogether. I tested this in the kitchen sink to see if the extra neoprene would allow it to float, but it did not. I am pretty sure it would be much slower to sink if it came off though, and should be reasonably visible in clear water.







Here is my better solution that is probably a little more secure on the arm, and definitely does float - tested in the Kitchen sink!

This is the same H2Oaudio arm bag I use for my android phone for on the water feedback with the GPS-Logit App. It will actually hold two LCD Motions and easily hold two Mini's. It says on the arm very well and is very resistant to slipping around to under the arm.









I feel bound to point out yet again, that wearing the GPS device on your shoulder or in your vest, or especially under your wetsuit is a very bad idea indeed. Wet materials very effectively block radio waves leading to poor reception and a high likelihood of errors, or even unuseable data. And in such positions, the antenna usually also has a very poor sky view to further compound the problems. The problem with on the shoulder is that it is very close to your head, which effectively blocks it's view from a large sector of the sky. It's usually not as bad as in your vest, or under your wetsuit, but comparison experiments show it sees less satellites and has more significant errors.

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sailquik said..
but comparison experiments show it sees less satellites and has more significant errors.

Come on Andrew I thought you were a school teacher! It sees fewer satellites.
Great post though, I don't know how you find the energy to keep pushing this important message.

Great post Sailquik. I too love my Mini, terrific, compact, easy to use device. I experimented with flotation and found if I weaved my strap through some 3mm EVA foam it would float. Trouble with that was it got in the way charging. Next problem, which is common to any gps you strap to your arm, is the tendency for the device to rotate under your arm.
that was pissing me off, so I now resort to either my vest shoulder strap (yes, naughty boy.) or my Gath helmet. I thought about housing it inside the helmet, but was concerned that with the thinner foam the gps could injure my head in a stack. So lazy me just strapped it to the top of my helmet via the existing helmet slots. I did glue some EVA to the top of the helmet for it to sit on. Problem with this method is: 1/ gps is vulnerable to damage from your mast; and 2/ it ain't no fashion statement!

Thanks for your efforts.

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Stretchy said.. Next problem, which is common to any gps you strap to your arm, is the tendency for the device to rotate under your arm.
that was pissing me off, so I now resort to either my vest shoulder strap (yes, naughty boy.) or my Gath helmet.

Yes, common problem that slipping around the arm.

I want to emphasise that the H2)audio bag does not slip around. It least when it is on a wetsuit clad arm. It has a sort of rubber pad on the back which grips very well and and the design of the strap seems to help without needing to be tight.

I agree. The Paqua bag I use sometimes, is not so secure. I have thought about contact gluing some soft grippy rubber to the back of it. Has anyone tried that?

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Stretchy said.. ....my Gath helmet. I thought about housing it inside the helmet, but was concerned that with the thinner foam the gps could injure my head in a stack.

Yes, I have a Gath helmet as well and dont use it for windsurfing as I couldn't find and way to make a cavity in it with it's very thin lining. There are lots of ski and skateboard helmets that do have enough room inside. ALDI ski and snowboard helmets work well (If you can get one large enough for your head - they done come in XL ) and are low cost for an experiment.

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Stretchy said.. So (I) just strapped it to the top of my helmet via the existing helmet slots. I did glue some EVA to the top of the helmet for it to sit on. Problem with this method is: 1/ gps is vulnerable to damage from your mast; and 2/ it ain't no fashion statement!

I think you look dashing mate!

I dont think the Mini is very vulnerable, It's very tough. But it could damage your sail if you head-butt it. I like Decrepits set up where he moulded a housing on his Gath for his GPS.

Daffy, I'm not sure I see the point of housing a LCD Motion in the roof of your helmet. How do you see the screen?
Jokes aside, I wear my LCD Motion on the upper part of my lower arm, just below my elbow where I can read it as I sail along. It has the added bonus that the antenna points to the sky in both underhand and overhand grip on the boom.
Numerous crashes have not dislodged it in this position.

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John340 said..
Daffy, I'm not sure I see the point of housing a LCD Motion in the roof of your helmet. How do you see the screen?
Jokes aside, I wear my LCD Motion on the upper part of my lower arm, just below my elbow where I can read it as I sail along. It has the added bonus that the antenna points to the sky in both underhand and overhand grip on the boom.
Numerous crashes have not dislodged it in this position.

Yes John. The only real reason for me is for accurate comparison testing. As I said above, they are better worn on the arm to take advantage of the screen feedback, unless of course you have something better for on the water feedback. But then you may as well save a lot of $$ and use the Mini's.

I agree that the upper forearm is and excellent place to wear a screen type GPS and I have advocated that for many years for exactly the reasons you mention.

The only possible downsides are that:
1. the forearm position carries a greater risk of the device being stripped off the arm in a crash, and that has happened to me on many occasions. But it didn't really have disastrous consequences as I always used a floating arm bag and was aware that I needed to look around for it immediately.
2. The forearm tends to have more shaking over chop as it's is less damped/isolate from the movement of the boom than the bicep. But in flat water speed sailing, the difference is minimal.

I'm using releasable cable ties to attach mine to my Gath helmet. Quick and easy to remove for uploading data and re-charging.

Again I say."Problem solved!"

A cable tie around the motion to prevent it separating the base from the body and enough flexibility in the strap to allow the charger to go under without having to remove the logger. The only disadvantage is if you like to use your head to rotate the cams on your sail when launching it can deform the monofilm.

Please tell me more about this rubber pad on that other armband? Pictures and all. The bottom of my armbands serve no function whatsoever so I could replace them with anti-slip rubber or whatever it is.

I didn't read the whole thread but if you can, don't add anything around the devices, especially not in close proximity to the top of the Mini's. The whole top surface is the antenna. They're waterproof!

The H2Oaudio arm bag I use for my cheap Android phones running GPS-Logit for OTW feedback are very waterproof, and the clear plastic does not seem to interfere with the GPS reception at all.












They are very stable on the upper arm and barely ever move in use. I think this is down to the wide elastic arm strap, the low profile and the contact points on the back having good friction on my wetsuit arm. Note: I never sail without at least a short arm wetsuit, even in NW Western Australia. I dont know how they go on bare arms and suspect they would not work that well on Lycra Rashie tops.

The back pf the Paqua has a mesh type of surface which seem to help it grip a bit, but I do find it can slip if I have two GPS in it with a bit more weight, or a wear it looser for comfort.

The clear plastic front of these has also proven to have virtually no affect on the GPS reception., as long as they are facing directly towards the sky and not halfway, or more around under your arm.






A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

2.Find some really soft grippy thin rubber sheet and glue it to the strap. Looking around for some good stuff now...

Sent you a PM Julien, with another idea to test.

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AUS02 said..
I'm using releasable cable ties to attach mine to my Gath helmet. Quick and easy to remove for uploading data and re-charging.

I like this idea. I haven't seen these type of cable ties. Is there any chance of the ties releasing accidentally?

I purchased them from Jaycar for $10 and am using the largest 300mm ones (10 of those came in the pack): www.jaycar.com.au/releasable-cable-tie-pack/p/HP1217

I don't think they'll release accidentally, but I had one break while tensioning (after having used them for a lot of sessions), so swapped them both out. At least there are two of them if one does break? I probably need to buy a spare mini motion when they are more readily available, just in case they do both break, but for ease and simplicity, they are great!

A bit surprised to see all this modifications to helmets, i personally don't do any modifications to this kind of safety devices after i've read the story from Michael Schumacher where the GoPro Mount had a devistating impact after a relative small crash on a slope (-> www.mthigh.org/Articles/GoPro-camera-aggravated-Michael-Schumacher-accident.pdf )

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Xbraun54 said..
A bit surprised to see all this modifications to helmets, i personally don't do any modifications to this kind of safety devices after i've read the story from Michael Schumacher where the GoPro Mount had a devistating impact after a relative small crash on a slope (-> www.mthigh.org/Articles/GoPro-camera-aggravated-Michael-Schumacher-accident.pdf )

This has been raised before. I certainly would NOT excavate a cavity in my skiing or motorcycling helmet for a GPS, and I wear my action cams in a different position in those activities, but it would be VERY unusual to have a heavy impact with a hard surface when windsurfing. Many sailors don't even wear a helmet, including the World Speed Record holder at Luderitz!! Although, that is one place I certainly would not even think about going without helmet. In my 40+ years of windsurfing, I have not had a heavy, hard hit on the head. I have had many minor knocks on the mast or boom in crashes, but nothing compared to some of my skiing crashes, where I am sure my helmet has saved me from very serious head injuries on quite a few occasions. There are usually no trees, rocks or hard Ice to hit when windsurfing, at least in Australia.

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sailquik said..

Xbraun54 said..
A bit surprised to see all this modifications to helmets, i personally don't do any modifications to this kind of safety devices after i've read the story from Michael Schumacher where the GoPro Mount had a devistating impact after a relative small crash on a slope (-> www.mthigh.org/Articles/GoPro-camera-aggravated-Michael-Schumacher-accident.pdf )

This has been raised before. I certainly would NOT excavate a cavity in my skiing or motorcycling helmet for a GPS, and I wear my action cams in a different position in those activities, but it would be VERY unusual to have a heavy impact with a hard surface when windsurfing. Many sailors don't even wear a helmet, including the World Speed Record holder at Luderitz!! Although, that is one place I certainly would not even think about going without helmet. In my 40+ years of windsurfing, I have not had a heavy, hard hit on the head. I have had many minor knocks on the mast or boom in crashes, but nothing compared to some of my skiing crashes, where I am sure my helmet has saved me from very serious head injuries on quite a few occasions. There are usually no trees, rocks or hard Ice to hit when windsurfing, at least in Australia.

The question was not to wear or not wear a helmet, but the fact you are modifying safety devices, so the initial purpose ('safety") is not supported anymore from an engineering perspective, but that's a personal decision you make.... i guess Schumacher made the same kind of risk assessment....he never expected to get an injury like this during this so called "low-risk" sports-activity compared to his former F1 risks.....

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Xbraun54 said..

The question was not to wear or not wear a helmet, but the fact you are modifying safety devices, so the initial purpose ('safety") is not supported anymore from an engineering perspective, but that's a personal decision you make.... i guess Schumacher made the same kind of risk assessment....he never expected to get an injury like this during this so called "low-risk" sports-activity compared to his former F1 risks.....

I guess for me is not so much a 'safety device' and more of the GPS and action cam platform.

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sailquik said..
A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

I thought this was a good idea, so I stuck some Velcro to the underside of my Mini. Used it over my wetsuit arm and Happy with the result, I reckon this significant reduces any tendency to rotate on your arm or come off in a crash

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Stretchy said..

sailquik said..
A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

I thought this was a good idea, so I stuck some Velcro to the underside of my Mini. Used it over my wetsuit arm and Happy with the result, I reckon this significant reduces any tendency to rotate on your arm or come off in a crash

going to be a bit scratch when your in boardies

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decrepit said..

Stretchy said..

sailquik said..
A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

I thought this was a good idea, so I stuck some Velcro to the underside of my Mini. Used it over my wetsuit arm and Happy with the result, I reckon this significant reduces any tendency to rotate on your arm or come off in a crash

going to be a bit scratch when your in boardies

It goes on my upper arm Mike. There'll always be a wetsuit or rashly under it

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Stretchy said..

sailquik said..
A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

I thought this was a good idea, so I stuck some Velcro to the underside of my Mini. Used it over my wetsuit arm and Happy with the result, I reckon this significant reduces any tendency to rotate on your arm or come off in a crash

That looks good Stretchy, but does it contact the charging plate close enough to charge OK now?

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sailquik said..

Stretchy said..

sailquik said..
A couple of idea a have which I need to try.

1. Glue a small strip of Hook Velcro on the back of the Paqua. From frustrating experience, this stuff seems to grip extremely well on wetsuit Nylon Lining material! The downside, is that it may eventually damage the Wetsuit material lining

I thought this was a good idea, so I stuck some Velcro to the underside of my Mini. Used it over my wetsuit arm and Happy with the result, I reckon this significant reduces any tendency to rotate on your arm or come off in a crash

That looks good Stretchy, but does it contact the charging plate close enough to charge OK now?

Oooh dear!
I'm such a twit, I completely forget about that! That's embarrassing
so of course I rushed off to test it. Turns out that it does still charge. I reckon it takes a few seconds longer for the lights to illuminate, so I'm guessing it will slow the charge time

Good the hear it still charges!

Can someone please advise if the mini motions are waterproof or do they need to be in a waterproof bag. Cheers

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DavMen said..
Can someone please advise if the mini motions are waterproof or do they need to be in a waterproof bag. Cheers

They are waterproof and do not require any protection

In fact Julien says, "Do not put in a bag, it only degrades the signal". That's why it's fully sealed.

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decrepit said..
In fact Julien says, "Do not put in a bag, it only degrades the signal". That's why it's fully sealed.

Well, that is fair as a general bit of advice, but it's not as cut and dried as that. My extensive testing has shown there is NO degradation of signal when it is worn in a proper waterproof bag with a clear plastic front and facing the sky.

Of course, if the bag is not completely waterproof, or the surface material absorbs water, there is a good chance the signal WILL be degraded. Water blocks radio waves very effectively and woven cloth/material is easily saturated with water!

Almost all of my side by side testing has been done with the GPS's inside my helmet, with the plastic helmet shell between the antenna and the sky. It makes zero difference if I have them on the outside or the inside the plastic shell (which does not absorb water and is transparent to radio waves (like glass is to light waves). Likewise, I have done comparisons with GPS's inside a snug waterproof arm bag, and just with the supplied strap. NO difference!

What WILL make a difference is if you allow the GPS the roll around your arm so that it is not facing the sky.
What Will make a difference is if you put your GPS inside your wetsuit or neoprene vest pocket!!! We have seen endless examples of junk tracks from this very thing!!
What WILL make a difference is if you use a non waterproof bag and it gets water in it!
What WILL make a difference is if you wear your GPS watch UNDER your wetsuit sleeve! PLEASE don't be that careless!

Having said that. There are almost no reasons not to wear the Motion GPS's with the supplied arm band rather than in a bag or covering. The only one I can really think of, is for possible better security in a big, high speed wipeout where it may be stripped off your arm. I have not seen or heard of that happening yet, but someone will probably manage it eventually.