Mail from Andrew Daff: Hi Wolfgang. I am very pleasedto tell you that I used one of
your Duo Speed Rake 30° (22cm)for the 1 hour record attemp on Lake George.Runs 2km in each direction so I needed a fin for both directions and the 22cm seemed to be the right size.I also needed a fin with rake to clear the weed, the fin worked perfect for both.I did not catch any weed at all,even in the gybes.The best thing is
I never have to stop to clear weed and can push at top speed all the time.
I worked the Rake 30° for Strand Horst. www.designlessacher.eu.
Wolfgang

The Lessacher fins are not bad, excellent for weedy lakes and inlets, but I would not take them to a bumpy, gusty, survival spot.

Here is a review of some more traditional straight premium speed fins:

www.andersbq.com/2012/02/premium-speed-fin-test.html

Not to deflate your response andersbq but Lessacher was only pumping his weed fins or rather weed speed fins which work for me

Interesting review..seems to gel with the gossip we hear on the beach about the relative merits of the various fins.

I guess if anyone was to do a fin review a guy who has hundreds of different fins is more qualified than most to do it. This person has a real fin fetish...



some of his collection

Hallo Anders:Thank you, that my fin is not bad.It is a speedfin,she made 50 Knots
topspeed and can weed.Wake up and look what is new: Wolfgang

Wolfgang, I have 50 of your fins, and will probably not stop buying more. I have even "exported" some weedfins to Wollongong last year... Lessacher Chamelot and T-Zone weed.
They had quite a lot of seaweed in Lake Illawarra when I was there, I did a blogpsot about that too; www.andersbq.com/2010/12/second-day-and-second-chance.html

I would take the Lessacher fins I have used to any spot I would sail if there is any chance of catching weed.

Anders: Nice blog and interesting read. My only comment is that I have never thought of a 30cm fin as a speed fin. My longest speed fin is 21.5cm!

Depends offcourse where you sail. I have loads of fins below 20 cm. But there is no option of using them at Karpathos. Here we simply need 26,28 and 30 to be able to get around the course. The waves upwind are hard to conquer with a C3 Slingshot. We sail about 300 m off the beach to get to up the starting area.
The biggest fin I call "speed-fin" is the C3 Venom 32cm, which I have broken 40 knots with 7,8. So a 30 cm could be a speed-fin. But you are right, usually I rather go with 26 or 28 cm. But at the day I did the big switch-test, the wind where not super, no +40 runs in sight. And to be honest, I sailed with both 28, 29, 30 and 32 fins that day, from all brands in the test.

Andrew, if you were 20kg heavier and 7 cm taller (like Andersbq ) I'm sure 30cm fins wouldn't seem so big in choppy water...:-)).

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yoyo said...

Andrew, if you were 20kg heavier and 7 cm taller (like Andersbq ) I'm sure 30cm fins wouldn't seem so big in choppy water...:-)).

Try 30 kg heavier!

True Dave, but even the 100kg guys at Sandy Pt use 21.5 to 23 cm speed fins.

IMHO, if you are using a 30cm fin, you are in a downwind slalom competition. No one is going to go 50 knots on a fin that long. I think it is just different philosophy as to what 'speed sailing' is about.

But that does not in any way detract from the value of Anders comments on the fins he tested in that context, and his very informative blog. That is incredibly valuable information that is usually very hard to come by.

ha ha, no off course a 30 cm fin will not work for 50 knot, but was not the issue.
I have other fins in 17, 18 , 19, 21, 23 cm. But I have not done any big test with them.

For your information, the rest of the world doesnt look like SP. If you think that spot is the reference for global speedsurfing you have no idea what your are talking about.

Off course there are other spots that have about the same superflat water, but they are remote and not where most sailors ca go every day. I have at least visited most speedspots in the world, but I am far from sailing there on a daily basis. Most people are happy to do 38 knots in their homespot.

you cannot take a 19 cm Slingshot on the upwind at karpathos... The problem is not really the chop, but the gusty wind that go from 20 to 40 knots in no time.

it as simple as that, I post some pics here, this is upwind and downwind we max around 39-43 knots. The most common fin is Tectonics F1 26 cm.

I prefer to be on small fins for speed sailing (obviously), but agree with posts above that it's not always the case when trying to make the most of conditions and it's good to know you can still go pretty quick on bigger fins. I've had a 44+ knot run at Sandy Point with a 28cm Venom and a just last month got a 41.86 knot 2-sec run in TAS with an iSonic 86, Reflex 6.2 and a new 34cm Venom. The 34 Venom felt fine and have been over 40 knots with that and previous Venom 34's many times. Not necessairly optimal, but you get a lot of runs in and can sail back up the course in chop and gusty conditions. I've got a speed board (46L proto) and two speed fins (18cm Strike, 21 Slingshot) that I've had for a while now and they are still waiting to be used!! Maybe one day

Well, and also important, the area and shape of the fins is whats important.
Many people think the size of the sail has correlate with how deep the fins is. But its the size/design of the board that steer the choice of fin. Very much the boards OFO.
The fins in my little "test" have all small areas and are all very thin = low lift = good for speed even if the are up to 32 cm.
Personal, I find the c3 Slingshots a little to "dead". Thats OK when you sail close to a wall or a sandbank, but not nice 50 meter out.

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andersbq said...
...
For your information, the rest of the world doesnt look like SP. If you think that spot is the reference for global speedsurfing you have no idea what your are talking about.

Off course there are other spots that have about the same superflat water, but they are remote and not where most sailors ca go every day. I have at least visited most speedspots in the world, but I am far from sailing there on a daily basis. Most people are happy to do 38 knots in their homespot.
...

Sandy Point has flat water on the speed course, but you may not be aware that on a big day, we sail back upwind through chop that is 3/4 to 1m high.

Similarly, some people prefer to sail the speed course a bit further away from the sand bank, where the chop easily exceeds 30cm at the fastest part of the course.

And indeed, Sandy Point is minimum 2.5 hrs away for the locals. (Edit: And the recent Lake George trip is 7hrs+)

I have sailed SP and toured around almost all part of Australia. I have at least 100 days on the sailboards in OZ. I am aware that SP could be really nasty upwind, I guess the current could make the chops one of the worst in the world. But it is possible to walk back. Same in spots other superflat spots, Egypt, Namibia, West Kirby, South of France etc.
But if you go out in the boiling water you know whats it like to take an assy BP Type-X or Slingshot 19 cm upwind in 1 meters chop... Almost survival!!
But there is also another thing to think about, spots like SP and WK has a shore on the other side. At lot of spots we sail with 40-50 knots of wind with the wast ocean, the further out you come, the harder it becomes with the short fins.. 100% pure survival.
I think I end this argue, now. As I mentioned I have all kind of fins, hundreds, and there are different fins (and boards) for all conditions.

Cheers ABQ

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andersbq said...

ha ha, no off course a 30 cm fin will not work for 50 knot, but was not the issue.
I have other fins in 17, 18 , 19, 21, 23 cm. But I have not done any big test with them.

For your information, the rest of the world doesnt look like SP. If you think that spot is the reference for global speedsurfing you have no idea what your are talking about.

Hi Anders,

Like I said, just a different philosophy on what speed-sailing is about.

Last time I counted there were at least 4, maybe 5 places in the world where windsurfers have gone 50 knots. At least that much again for over 45 knots.

There are readily accessible opportunities for sailors to go to these places and go really fast whether they live in the UK, Netherlands, Germany, North America, Africa or Australia. I have no doubt there are other 50 knots venues out there just waiting to be 'discovered' by local sailors with the passion.

With very few exceptions, most so called 'speed sailing' events are really just upwind - downwind slalom racing events. They very rarely produce speeds anywhere near records, or what the sailors are truly capable of and mostly favor similar skills, sailor builds and equipment to slalom racing.This is fine if that is what floats your boat. I personally,actually quite enjoy some good slalom racing and have been known to enter quite a few in my younger days.

For me, Sandy Point is definitely a reference for global speed sailing. Along with West Kirby, Southend, The Brace, Vollerwiek, Luderitz and a few others. These are the places where ordinary sailors who have the passion can go and find conditions where they can go really fast, where there are very few compromises to pure, outright speed and they don't need a rich sponsor or membership of a expensive club.

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Off course there are other spots that have about the same superflat water, but they are remote and not where most sailors ca go every day. I have at least visited most speedspots in the world, but I am far from sailing there on a daily basis. Most people are happy to do 38 knots in their homespot.

Refer to the list above. All are readily accessible for the sailors in those countries, although some may have to take a long drive.
It is a common misconception from those who have not seen it really firing, that Sandy Point always has super flat water. On those days when 45-60 knot squalls are pounding the course and maximum speeds are achievable, if you can just make it down the run, the 20-30cm+ following chop at the fastest part of the course is extremely challenging. There are few Sandy Point regulars who have not experienced violent, and sometimes painful crashes near the end of their runs. It is definitely no walk in the park! I am sure those who have sailed West Kirby can relate to this.

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you cannot take a 19 cm Slingshot on the upwind at karpathos... The problem is not really the chop, but the gusty wind that go from 20 to 40 knots in no time.

it as simple as that, I post some pics here, this is upwind and downwind we max around 39-43 knots. The most common fin is Tectonics F1 26 cm.

I am sure it is not practical to use a 19cm slingshot in the Karpathos competition, but are you sure it would not be possible to just do a few really fast runs with one outside of that competitive format?

Please don't get me wrong Anders. I have great respect for the game you play and what you are able to achieve within those limitations. Likewise, for your deep knowledge of the equipment needed to make that happen.

But don't you sometimes get the passionate urge to just break out of those boundaries and find out how fast you can really go? With the skills and experience you have, I would expect to see you well up near the very top of the speed rankings when you take the chance to really go for it.

Best regards, Andrew

Its always the question,can the fin make a spin out or not.If you can work fins
without spin outs,you can work short fins with 22cm. The other have to work longer. Carbon or G10 ? Carbon is always faster,the reaction is shorter.If you
work 18 or 20cm for downwind,it works, but the way back is for the most not so easy. To change a Tuttle fin for the way back in Vollerwiek. Sometimes 4-6°Celsius
cold fingers, only 1 hour time for 5 runs or they look only on the 50knots+. The
speeder from Netherland are professionals ,they are good,our speeder make it with fun. I worked for Thomas Döblin a Tuttlefin with one screw. Downwind with 22cm ,back with I think with 28cm upright Bull Speed. At the moment is there ice.
But it is for me a great fun to help here our speeder and some speeder in Australia.
Wolfgang

Your right Andrew, off course 28-30 cm fins are not speed fins in that sense that they are made for breaking records. Neither are sails-sizes around 7,8 or 8,6.

You can argue if it is speed sailing to use those equipment, but a am sure that a lot of people or actually most people that use GPSes, dont go out every day to break any spot- or world record. Most days you sail for fun or compete with the other lads on the water, whether its a speedworldcup, the worldchampionship, Weymouth speedweek or just a great day. But if we take the last very big event "when everyone where there", we all sailed 7,0 or 7,8 almost the whole week with big 28-30-32 cm fins. But not everyone offcourse, Chris L had always shorter fins, So you might have a point...! (But most riders in the world are not Chris).

What I am trying to say is, apeedwindsurfing can be recordbreaking with a lovely Carbon Art SP40 and a 17 cm fin, but can also be break 38 knots with a 8,6 in Weymoth speedweek on a SP63 or a medium slalomboard. Same same but different.

PS I would love to try my new assy Black Project X-type 45 at Karpathos, either with help of a tender-boat or sail up-wind and change fins at the start.
PS2. With the current recession in Europe I think the only events left will be the recordbreakings. Hope to be at the right place at the right time this year!
PS3 Karpathos is not a very good speed spot, (short, gusty, choppy) but the combination of the "Mama Mia atmosphere" and 99% wind over 5-6 BFT makes it excellent for holidays and events. (And Chris has the real spot-record on a SP44)

I know this is arguable but speedsurfing to me are all the categories on GPS team challenge. Some of which you are better with bigger kit in lighter winds such as the Hour, or medium kit in medium winds such as the mile (of course this is location dependent as well). All of it is related to speed, where I wouldnt go for an hour with a Type S or even a mile unless confident in the tide state at Portland, but would still be speeding on a bigger Type R.

One day I will come to Karpathos Anders, I love greece and have a lot of fond memories from there when I was a youngster