Question regarding boards in the 40-50cm wide range. Do they sail upwind reasonably well? As in sailing upwind to starting point of a broad reach speed run ?
I used to sail an old seatrend speed needle. Forgot the width (and how it sailed). But it was very narrow.

I have a old school F2 sputnik 270, this board is about 50 cm width. Upwind goes very well, but this is with a 28 cm slalomfin. I sail this board with max 35 knots, so this not really a speed board. I believe that with a "normal" fin, these boards can go upwind rather good. But if you use a small (20 cm) fin with a lot of rake, things get difficult....

If its windy enough to be on a speed board and a good fin , yes they go up wind really well unless its super rough but you will have no problem if your over powered up wind you will be sweet down wind

They can point well enough to recover from a bearaway run in one tack. Two key conditions. Fin choice becomes very critical, I've noticed a huge difference in pointing ability with similar length fins but with different profiles. Secondly, they will side slip if you just try to slog upwind at low speed. You need to pick up speed first to generate some lift on the fin and then crank upwind. Adjustable outhaul also helps point a few degrees higher.

I used a BIC Alegero as my high wind board back in the day. I'd just change the fin depending on the conditions. It was a great jump board too

Yep it's one of those compromises, small fin for downwind speed, large fin for upwind ability. I was out the other day on my 48cm board, was fine when I first went out, (on a 20cm at 40/60 degrees) but as the wind dropped off, I wished I had a bigger fin.

Jetlag is on to it!

If there is strong enough wind and flat enough water to go very fast, they go upwind just fine. ideal minimum upwind VMG speed for my 40cm Carbon Art with 18-20cm fin is around 22 knots. You need to have enough speed to make it efficient.

Remember that in the 90's, a lot of 270 slalom boards were only around 50cm wide! and they were normally sailed/raced in 20 knots. I can comfortably sail my Mistral 46cm wide speed board in 20-25 knots, but it needs to be high 20's for it to be faster than my Isonic80 on Flat water, and when it gets to around around 30 knots, the CA40 is faster (i'm 74-75Kg)

I've got a Mistrial Speed 47. Love it as long as it's not too rough. Just as long as I have a decent fin in, I am different to those who roll to the leeward rail to get upwind; I roll the windward rail in and get back upwind fine.

Select to expand quote

Jetlag said..
They can point well enough to recover from a bearaway run in one tack. >>>

Well I've never seen that, my initial reaction is the fin is too big our you didn't go deep enough downwind.
Here's my NM PB tracks from Lilacs Albany. These are typical tracks for down wind and back upwind for me, and everybody else there seemed to be doing a similar thing. I didn't see anybody able to sail back to the start of the run in one tack


OK, I've realised all my sailing is done in weed these days, so this was a heavily raked fin, 16cm at 50degs and only a 43cm board. downwind run was flat and upwind runs a bit choppy. May have a bearing on the situation.

Here's a link to the session,
www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2020-02-05&team=2

Mort's also has his tracks posted there, his angles look similar

Select to expand quote

Jetlag said..
They can point well enough to recover from a bearaway run in one tack.

This depends a LOT on the venue. Lilacs Albany is a quite confined area so I found I had to do at least 4 tacks to get upwind like Decrepit, especially if I wanted to try for the full NM most of this session was on the CA40 with 16cm BP Kestral fin:



All these examples on my CA40cm mostly with 18 cm fin, (asymmetric Tribal speed, which does not help with upwind but still works well enough)

At Primbee one tends to do short bearaways and long upwind tacks. This makes it pretty easy to gain your ground upwind again in one tack.



At Lake George, Sandy Point, Boobays and Budgiewoi, I tend to do two tacks with a single gybe (or step off) halfway to get upwind.

Some examples:

Lake George:






Sandy Point in the confined area of the 'Boat hole'. Still got upwind in two tacks.


Boobays 2016. Lots of room to get upwind with 16.5cm Tribal assy :




Bugiewoi with tiny 12cm Tribal Delta fin. No problems getting upwind at all, but a couple of crashes when I ran out of flat water at the end were pretty spectacular!


I cant immediately find my Fangyland sessions, but I seem to remember that I did a few tacks upwind to try for the NM's there as well.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

Jetlag said..
They can point well enough to recover from a bearaway run in one tack.

This depends a LOT on the venue. Lilacs Albany is a quite confined area so I found I had to do at least 4 tacks to get upwind like Decrepit, especially if I wanted to try for the full NM most of this session was on the CA40 with 16cm BP Kestral fin:



All these examples on my CA40cm mostly with 18 cm fin, (asymmetric Tribal speed, which does not help with upwind but still works well enough)

At Primbee one tends to do short bearaways and long upwind tacks. This makes it pretty easy to gain your ground upwind again in one tack.



At Lake George, Sandy Point, Boobays and Budgiewoi, I tend to do two tacks with a single gybe (or step off) halfway to get upwind.

Some examples:

Lake George:






Sandy Point in the confined area of the 'Boat hole'. Still got upwind in two tacks.


Boobays 2016. Lots of room to get upwind with 16.5cm Tribal assy :




Bugiewoi with tiny 12cm Tribal Delta fin. No problems getting upwind at all, but a couple of crashes when I ran out of flat water at the end were pretty spectacular!


I cant immediately find my Fangyland sessions, but I seem to remember that I did a few tacks upwind to try for the NM's there as well.

Yes, I was referring to those triangle type runs. One direction has a setup-bearaway-point and the other tack just a long slog back to the starting point. If you're at Primbee in SW or NW doing deep Nautis it will similarly take you 2 to 3 digs to get back upwind.

OK. we all agree talking at cross purposes. I thought you meant going back the way you came.

Select to expand quote

mikey100 said..
I've got a Mistrial Speed 47. Love it as long as it's not too rough. Just as long as I have a decent fin in, I am different to those who roll to the leeward rail to get upwind; I roll the windward rail in and get back upwind fine.

Opps. You are correct, my Mistral is 47cm wide.

I agree that in some situations it is a real advantage to angle a narrow speed board to windward, especially if you are pinching at lower than ideal speeds.

Nice info everyone. When it's choppy (not that flat) is that the board is just slow or slower to make upwind? I have a 70cm slalom board I sail at the moment with a 7.0 and 6.2. But loookg for that high wind board to break PR's and get into the 40's . We have locally some unique spots where at low tide we can get luderirz type sailing . Lanes 50-80feet wide and maybe 1-2 feet deep b/w sandbars. Speed run of maybe 110-120? off the wind. But getting back is the opposite . Then there are other spots which are relatively flat.but you do get that 1 foot chop.and maybe that rogue wave/chop of 1 1/2 foot.
would be sailing in wind 25-30kts or more with a 6.2m (and smaller sail if need be)

I've got a Starboard Luderitz 44cm wide board and, as everyone comments above, once there is enough wind, it goes upwind fine, even when taking it easy in a bit of chop. Tracks below show a lot of runs where I've walked part way back up the run, but a couple where I've also sailed from the end of the run back up to the start. I had a 5.5m sail and 21cm Slingshot fin. Video of one run up and back also attached.

Select to expand quote

skyking1231 said..>>>Lanes 50-80feet wide and maybe 1-2 feet deep b/w sandbars. Speed run of maybe 110-120? off the wind. But getting back is the opposite . Then there are other spots which are relatively flat.but you do get that 1 foot chop.and maybe that rogue wave/chop of 1 1/2 foot.
would be sailing in wind 25-30kts or more with a 6.2m (and smaller sail if need be)

Lanes 50 -80ft wide would be a problem with most boards, I'd think, if you have an ideal downwind angle.

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..

skyking1231 said..>>>Lanes 50-80feet wide and maybe 1-2 feet deep b/w sandbars. Speed run of maybe 110-120? off the wind.

Lanes 50 -80ft wide would be a problem with most boards, I'd think, if you have an ideal downwind angle.

Yes, like the Luderitz canal at 135+ off the wind!

110-120 should be relatively flat though, but not quite as fast as 130. .

Where is your venue? Photo's/Google map please?

side question

With smaller slalom/speed boards do people still ride with the feet right on the edge of the rail? Kind of hard to control the board if you become airborne with heels hanging over the rail

Here is a session with a narrow (ish) channel approx 110 deg off the wind, you can see on starboard tack I have to come away from the bank (sailing angle approx 120 to 125) to get my best runs of the session. On completion of the run I pinch upwind as much as possible before running out of water, I then jump off and sail port tack upwind to get to the start of my next starboard run.

70kg sailor - Isonic 49 wide, KA Koncept 5.4, C3 Venom 24 fin. Wind 30knots NNE (or approx 23 degs according to the polar graph).

I have had sessions where the channel is broader (120degs) and I can't sail as high into the channel, so I have shorter runs or more tacks to get up the channel. Recently we have had rubbish wind with massive holes, so I resort to walking up the channel whilst waiting for the next gust to come through.

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
side question

With smaller slalom/speed boards do people still ride with the feet right on the edge of the rail? Kind of hard to control the board if you become airborne with heels hanging over the rail

i cant really relate to the question. I twist my front foot a bit towards inline with the rail and the back foot is straight across the board with no heel overhang as far as I can remember. on the CA40

I am guessing on the angle. It really depends on the wind direction . It's' a place called west meadow on LI NY. It's great b/c you can go slalom/speed & runs plus freestyle and then if you want to switch go to the outside to Psuedo/wave sailing on the outside we can get logo high waves all in the same day.
I am looking to go faster .but just note sure how"specialized" I want to go yet. 45-55cm would be fun..but then I think maybe 55-60cm would make more sense. I had a 63cm slalom board but recently sold it

The smaller the speedboard the less you will use it. For speed my easiest and most fun board is a small slalom 53-54 wide/ 70l volume. You still need some steady wind but it takes off and jibes a lot easier and you can still do close to 40 knts

thanx powersloshin..... that is what I am was thinking. more speed potential at the cost of versatility.

Select to expand quote

skyking1231 said..
I am looking to go faster .but just note sure how"specialized" I want to go yet. 45-55cm would be fun..but then I think maybe 55-60cm would make more sense. I had a 63cm slalom board but recently sold it

I have cracked 40 a few times on my IS80 (60cm) slalom board, in really good flat water conditions, and some of the larger guys can crack 40 on slightly bigger slalom boards fairly regularly in great conditions, so a smaller, late model slalom board is certainly capable, but if you have got 30kts plus of wind, sub 50cm wide specialised speed boards are going to be at least a couple of knots faster, especially at the stronger end of the wind range because they are a lot easier to push while keeping under control. It's a skill and experience thing though. If you don't get much time over 30Kt's on the water to practice on the smaller boards, you won't be as skilled and confident on the small speed board and your returns will be lower. Sometimes it's fine line between getting going for a great speed run, and battling to get back upwind or get started and miss the squall altogether.

39 peak on slalom board in around 25 knots of wind on super flat water :

Select to expand quote

skyking1231 said..
I am guessing on the angle. It really depends on the wind direction . It's' a place called west meadow on LI NY. It's great b/c you can go slalom/speed & runs plus freestyle and then if you want to switch go to the outside to Psuedo/wave sailing on the outside we can get logo high waves all in the same day.

If this is where you mean, it certainly looks like there is some good speed run potential there on the right wind. (WNW or Northerly?)

Select to expand quote

skyking1231 said..
Nice info everyone. When it's choppy (not that flat) is that the board is just slow or slower to make upwind? I have a 70cm slalom board I sail at the moment with a 7.0 and 6.2. But loookg for that high wind board to break PR's and get into the 40's . We have locally some unique spots where at low tide we can get luderirz type sailing . Lanes 50-80feet wide and maybe 1-2 feet deep b/w sandbars. Speed run of maybe 110-120? off the wind. But getting back is the opposite . Then there are other spots which are relatively flat.but you do get that 1 foot chop.and maybe that rogue wave/chop of 1 1/2 foot.
would be sailing in wind 25-30kts or more with a 6.2m (and smaller sail if need be)

It does sound like a small slalom board 55cm/60cm and a couple of good fins would be the best option for you. A slalom fin for regular days and a big speed fin for the fast days. Most people can peak 40k on small slalom kit, so its well worth looking out for one.

In real world speed sailing, most of us only get to use our 45cm boards half a dozen times a year (if we're lucky), most of the time I'm on my 58cm board & 7m having fun pretending to be a speed sailor.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

skyking1231 said..
I am looking to go faster .but just note sure how"specialized" I want to go yet. 45-55cm would be fun..but then I think maybe 55-60cm would make more sense. I had a 63cm slalom board but recently sold it

I have cracked 40 a few times on my IS80 (60cm) slalom board, in really good flat water conditions, and some of the larger guys can crack 40 on slightly bigger slalom boards fairly regularly in great conditions, so a smaller, late model slalom board is certainly capable, but if you have got 30kts plus of wind, sub 50cm wide specialised speed boards are going to be at least a couple of knots faster, especially at the stronger end of the wind range because they are a lot easier to push while keeping under control. It's a skill and experience thing though. If you don't get much time over 30Kt's on the water to practice on the smaller boards, you won't be as skilled and confident on the small speed board and your returns will be lower. Sometimes it's fine line between getting going for a great speed run, and battling to get back upwind or get started and miss the squall altogether.

39 peak on slalom board in around 25 knots of wind on super flat water :

nice ....looks real shallow.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

skyking1231 said..
I am guessing on the angle. It really depends on the wind direction . It's' a place called west meadow on LI NY. It's great b/c you can go slalom/speed & runs plus freestyle and then if you want to switch go to the outside to Psuedo/wave sailing on the outside we can get logo high waves all in the same day.

If this is where you mean, it certainly looks like there is some good speed run potential there on the right wind. (WNW or Northerly?)

close...its the beach that is to the right that faces west. series of sandbars that form lanes. 6-7 foot tidal change. high tide is crazy shore break (washing machine ) conditions....mid tide is play land (freestyle/wave/slalom)...low tide slalom with smallish fin/freestyle. unique spot.

always was into speed in the light to med winds 70-75cm slalom boards& big sails.... but got the bug to see if how fast "I" can go. so want to get smaller boards.....just have to get rid of some boards I have now... running out of space in garage... :(

Select to expand quote

skyking1231 said..
nice ....looks real shallow.

Mostly chest to knee deep. Not dangerous at all. It's the weed that grows in it that makes the magic.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

skyking1231 said..
nice ....looks real shallow.

Mostly chest to knee deep. Not dangerous at all. It's the weed that grows in it that makes the magic.

"It's the weed that grows in it that makes the magic" to smoke or surf