I didn't want to hijack the "small sail" thread so I'd thought about starting a new one after some of the comments.

If someone had a jetski equipped with a tow-in matt/boogie board on the back I would gladly volunteer to be the driver and rescue dude on call for the epic days.

Ive thought about a floating platform for a while that could ferry guys back up to the course where they could at least sail back, my only concern is that any big wind underneath it and it will end up at lakes entrance.

I don't think you could use a rubber ducky or small tinny in those sort of winds, you would most likely get capsized when beam on to the wind. Ive been on a rubber ducky at the pit in 25-30 knots and it felt a little dodgy.

any thoughts?

As someone that was there last year on Big Sunday, it seemed to me like it was hard enough walking your gear back up the course in that wind let alone trying to hold onto a jetski float as well as holding your gear. I also don't think anyone would want to be out on the water in 50-60 knots of wind on a jetski. No offence eddy but it was pretty gnarly out there that day and you would have to be plain mad to try zooming around on a ski in it. Also to get back up the course safely you'd want to be within 20ft of the bank and I doubt the people heading down the course would really like having to dodge a stinkboat.
Just my thoughts anyway :)

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sick_em_rex said...

As someone that was there last year on Big Sunday, it seemed to me like it was hard enough walking your gear back up the course in that wind let alone trying to hold onto a jetski float as well as holding your gear. I also don't think anyone would want to be out on the water in 50-60 knots of wind on a jetski. No offence eddy but it was pretty gnarly out there that day and you would have to be plain mad to try zooming around on a ski in it. Also to get back up the course safely you'd want to be within 20ft of the bank and I doubt the people heading down the course would really like having to dodge a stinkboat.
Just my thoughts anyway :)

Thanks Rex for the reality check - I agree totally and yep unfortunetly I have never seen the pit in all its glory at 50 to 60+ kts.

I'm just worried that something bad could happen if someone eats it, gets knocked unconscious and no one is there to pull them out. How can we reduce the risk (without sailing at all - that would be crap)?

The float idea would be pretty crazy at those windspeeds, plus you would need some big HP to pull it back up the course. Agree not practical.

How about someone on standby on a ski at the top of the course behind the dune?
Or at those winds is it pretty nuts there as well?

What size are the waves in those winds on the eastern bank?

There was actually a friend of Matt Robertson who lost it not long after getting past the dune. He then spent pretty much the next half hour either trying to waterstart or basically floating down the course, albeit right out in the middle of the channel. Not really where you would want to be on that particular day. There were quite a few of us watching his progress but he seemed like he was in control, just more frustrated at not being able to get going. Eventually he washed ashore at the far end of the course which is pretty much what would happen should anything break or as happened here. He was then able to walk back up the course and collapse with exhaustion once behind the dune.
I think pretty much all you can do is just be aware of others around and just keep an eye out. If in trouble and you're able to, wave your arms madly to get attention. If you're in suspect conditions then hopefully you'll be where others are sailing that will keep an eye on each other and at minimum you are wearing an impact vest with floatation should you manage to injure yourself and possibly knock yourself out.

I think it is a really honourable idea to have some sort of rescue facility , it is just the practicality that is the issue.
If you will indulge me I will give you my experience of the "big Day"maybe to put it into perspective. Sort of bare my soul a bit on a public forum but just try to express how extreme those conditions can be and how close I came to serious consequences.

I was crook, had the flu, but no way was going to miss it. I am asthmatic so having flu /cold just complicates matters. A few Codral s, just a few more. I,m set!!!

First run, Way overpowered, emerge from the dunes and the board goes really light and the next thing I know I am airborne. Land maybe 10 meters from the bank , swim to my gear. It takes all my energy to swim it back to the bank, I cannot believe how hard it is to swim against that wind. The spray means you can't see a thing and all the forces are trying to push you out into deeper water.
I am carrying 6 kg's in the weight jacket.
The walk back is murder, hard to stand up and totally sand blasted.
I am really short of breathe and the asthma is rearing it,s head.
Had a decent break waiting for it to back off a bit then went . "stuff it, I,m going again"
Pretty much a repeat performance , lost it just past the dunes at over 40 knots but this time the gear gets tossed way out. Not even thinking I swim out to it.
Try to water start a couple of times but the rig is just ripped out of my hands. Lets swim!!!!. Well F.........dinkum I swam for what seemed like an hour and was just getting further away. Fortunately AMAC, Matt Robertson and Shellby who were walking back saw I was in trouble and I saw them. Did the fist in the air " I,m in trouble " surf rescue thing and Matt gave his gear to AMAC to hold and swam out.
He felt he could get my gear back if I could swim in so thats what we did, but by that time I was really having trouble breathing and had zero energy.
I alternated between freestyle and back stroke but the weight jacket and helmet were a real hinderance to swimming. I finally ditched the helmut but was in real trouble. Only maybe 25 metres from the bank I was starting to swallow lots of water, really struggling to breathe and frankly starting to panic a bit.
Fist up again and I see Shelby chuck off his weight jacket and start swimming out.
It took a fair effort from him to help me back, friggin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!..
I consider myself a pretty damned good swimmer, an experienced windsurfer and yachty and not unfit for my age ,but those conditions battered me and made me feel like an ant in a desert.

Some sort of rescue facility for "big"days could potentially save a life and I am all for supporting something. Practically I think "spotters" are the key as to differentiate between somebody who is just trying to waterstart and somebody who really needs help is super important.

Thanks for helping me to feel better about my own experience Martin!
I didn't fare much better myself when I crashed/bailed out at the end of the two runs I managed to make. It took me ages to get some semblance of a water start and drag myself back to the bank, and I was only 20 meter from it max. Same thing; every time I lifted the sail out of the water I got trashed. Either ripped out of my grip or thrashed so hard I could not do a thing. This was the reason I didn't attempt a third run. I genuinely feared for my safety, and I have been a waterman all my life!

In the slightly less extreme conditions in 2004 Speedweek, (35-50kts) we used the Tinnie to ferry Foxy across to the eastern shore to collect his gear after it cartwheeled across the inlet. (spectacular in the video! ) With three in the boat (3.9 Stacer with 25 Merc) we could go downwind and come back straight up wind ok but it was not comfortable. We hugged the bank crosswind. I estimate the wind was around 35-40 knots at the time. Pretty close to the limit for that boat. I think a heavy jet ski might fare a bit better but I don't know if it could operate in the winds we had 27-09-09.

There is a marine coastguard rescue boat based at Sandy now. A rigid hull semi inflatable with twin outboards. If there is ever a day like 27-09-09 again I will ask the guys to come down and see if they can operate. I recon a couple of them could be up for the challenge. Two the the crew are very experienced jet ski operators so I will ask them which they reckon might be the better option in really wild wind conditions.

I have thought about it a lot since the big day and my best suggestion is that a 'Throw Bag' would have been very useful. I used to use these a lot for rescues in my whitewater canoeing days. It is a long rope, attached at the end inside a nylon bag with a bit of weight in the bottom. It is used by holding one end of the rope and throwing the bag containing the coil, which unravels behind the bag as it flys. We usually only had about 10-15m of rope in them but in our situation, with the wind behind us, I reckon you might be able get it up to 20 meters or more quite easily. It could be used to drag a sailor and his rig back to the the bank quite well I think. We would just need to have a few of them stashed down the course.
Come to think of it, I reckon we should have one or two of these available even for normal speed days!

The rescue rope sounds a damn fine idea, one most importantly which doesn't put other people in the same predicament ie in the water trying to swim.

Just remember if you have a throw rope rescue kit have some flags with it as well so as you can warn anyone else coming down the run there is a rope across the course

Some of the better off shore speed spots we have tried led us to think of the throw rope idea if the wind got real silly.
We thought we might almost need a rope with a buoy so it could be thrown say 10-15 metres and then float the rest of the way to the sailor.

I have a SeaDoo Explorer I use for getting into some speed locations. Handles 30-40 knots and big swell if used with care, pretty tame if the waves and water are flatter. Essentially a RIB with a Jetski control system and jet drive. Can get in to some pretty shallow areas but has enough weight not to get blown around too much.

wow never seen those before looks good !!

Pretty easy for a sailor to sit in the back with the sail across the boat for a trip back upwind. Loaded up it carries 6 boards, sails, mast and booms and 3 people.

Nice looking jigger Roo!
Actually, the sea rescue boat they have here is very much like a larger version of that with steering and seating in on a central longitudinal padded seat that you straddle. It has twin outboards though which are not as good in the shallows as the jet drive.

edit: Found a picture of the boat itself in Waratah Bay!

hi guys,

i think its a great idea, i too have had come a cropper before and its not funny in fact bloody scary, it still haunts me but i catapulted and dislocated my shoulder at the ray (england) luckily the water was just deep enough to catch a toe and get out, 2 meters further i would of been stuffed, problem was everyone had made a run then the wind switched when i crashed so no one came back, i had to walk 500m to raise the alarm...but i was on the wrong side (the one and only ever event was on with safety boat) the boat hitched me accross then i had to walk accross the sand flats about 1/2 mile basically i was a mess and if that boat wasnt there very serious no way could i swim it.

i think its easy for most to dismiss ideas like this but for those that have come close know

on this note i bought a boat for the purpose of getting to some 'unknown' speed spots here with the added safety aspect, small rib an outboard to carry 4


not quite as flash as roo's but hey its only a channel basher

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mr love said...

I think it is a really honourable idea to have some sort of rescue facility , it is just the practicality that is the issue.
If you will indulge me I will give you my experience of the "big Day"maybe to put it into perspective. Sort of bare my soul a bit on a public forum but just try to express how extreme those conditions can be and how close I came to serious consequences.

I was crook, had the flu, but no way was going to miss it. I am asthmatic so having flu /cold just complicates matters. A few Codral s, just a few more. I,m set!!!

First run, Way overpowered, emerge from the dunes and the board goes really light and the next thing I know I am airborne. Land maybe 10 meters from the bank , swim to my gear. It takes all my energy to swim it back to the bank, I cannot believe how hard it is to swim against that wind. The spray means you can't see a thing and all the forces are trying to push you out into deeper water.
I am carrying 6 kg's in the weight jacket.
The walk back is murder, hard to stand up and totally sand blasted.
I am really short of breathe and the asthma is rearing it,s head.
Had a decent break waiting for it to back off a bit then went . "stuff it, I,m going again"
Pretty much a repeat performance , lost it just past the dunes at over 40 knots but this time the gear gets tossed way out. Not even thinking I swim out to it.
Try to water start a couple of times but the rig is just ripped out of my hands. Lets swim!!!!. Well F.........dinkum I swam for what seemed like an hour and was just getting further away. Fortunately AMAC, Matt Robertson and Shellby who were walking back saw I was in trouble and I saw them. Did the fist in the air " I,m in trouble " surf rescue thing and Matt gave his gear to AMAC to hold and swam out.
He felt he could get my gear back if I could swim in so thats what we did, but by that time I was really having trouble breathing and had zero energy.
I alternated between freestyle and back stroke but the weight jacket and helmet were a real hinderance to swimming. I finally ditched the helmut but was in real trouble. Only maybe 25 metres from the bank I was starting to swallow lots of water, really struggling to breathe and frankly starting to panic a bit.
Fist up again and I see Shelby chuck off his weight jacket and start swimming out.
It took a fair effort from him to help me back, friggin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!..
I consider myself a pretty damned good swimmer, an experienced windsurfer and yachty and not unfit for my age ,but those conditions battered me and made me feel like an ant in a desert.

Some sort of rescue facility for "big"days could potentially save a life and I am all for supporting something. Practically I think "spotters" are the key as to differentiate between somebody who is just trying to waterstart and somebody who really needs help is super important.

piece of mind for next time???

looks like there is a road or two on the other side of speed run..(the wind would blow you there directly, if you managed to hold onto your gear that day!!!) looks like the road will take you to Yanakie, couple of km's to get help....

that was my 'what if something goes wrong stratergy'

sometimes it's better to go with the flow, rather than fight it.

Great to hear about rescue ideas for epic days.

Last time we had an epic day (3 years ago with 45 knot speeds recorded) at Lynfield, 35-40 knots of wind you wouldn't want a light boat out there as conditions are too rough.

With 35-40 knots of wind if you crash & do not grab your gear immediately the wind & waves will whip your gear away faster than you can swim, seen very experience sailors in this situation.

Good thing about epic days at Lynfield, you & your gear will be blown back to the shore, about 500- 1000m so there is no point trying to swim back to the bank to recover or waiting to be rescued.

Lynfield at 40-60 knots larger size boat would struggle.
Lynfield at 50-70 knots, forget about sailing!