hi there folks i currently sail NP rs slaloms 5.8 7.2 8.4 i use the 5.8 as my speed sail and need something around 6.5 to fill the gap, now the natural thing would be to get the 6.7 the thing is im looking to get a CA SP50 and obviously stumbled across ka sails (pretty unheard of hear) now i have read umpteen posts reviews etc stating how great they are for speed sailing and their results speek loudly, cant remember where but a couple of reads claimed the NP's had a back hand heavy feel and take exact tuning to find the perfect balance point, this got me thinking i tend to fanny around alot and probably has alot to do with me not the kit but i feel i fight the rig a lot and rarley have a nice balanced feel which doesnt help the confidence at all. i run max downhaul 0 out haul but find im always changing boom height mast track harness lines to balance it.
believing all sails have different characteristics is it a case of i dont get on with NP and another brand suits my style? i know a bad workman blames his tools but im constantly changing things and rarley feel comfy.
anyone sailed both RSS's and koncept's? iv only sailed rs's and dont have the comparison between the two.

thanks for reading

Hi eastcoast,

I have used the v8's, rs6's and rs racing in neil pryde and have owned the 2007, 2008 and 2009 koncepts. The koncepts have a shorter boom length and are alot lighter in the hands and very fast as are the neil prydes. One of the great benefits of the ka is the mast curve and downhaul required is alot less - easier to rig

Hope this helps,

cheers,

Carl

to be fair i have an mxt extension and i can downhaul the 8.4 off my harness easily but on that note i saw some pics guys had posted here of a rigged 5.8 koncept and noticed the leech was quite a bit taughter than the prydes and lookin at shots on the water the koncepts dont look like they twist as much even at 40kts plus? the prydes seemed a lower aspect than the koncepts,

the koncepts seem quite attractive as i see normal (build) guys hitting record speeds...so carl have you gone from pryde to ka indefinately or still runnin both?

Only running ka's now and loving them. The 2009 are better than ever...

I've used both Pryde race sails, RAF sails and Koncepts. If it's speed you want then the KA's will deliver results with less mucking around and expense. The KA's are extremely efficient, you'll find you can get away with smaller KA's than RS sails because of their huge power down low. They don't need to twist as much as Prydes because the power is so low and locked in so the sail can be ridden more vertically and with less bouncing around. Despite what some designers say about twist, it's not the be all and end all in speedsailing - control and power down low is more important and so it seems that the KA's aren't designed to twist as drammatically at the top. Chris Lockwood uses slightly softer mast tops to increase the twist but you'll have to speak to him about the merits of that. Seems to work!

That said, everyone has their own preference for what they like in a sail but this is my experience.

Take a look at the speeds Chris hit on the Swan river with 7.0 and 7.8 RS Slaloms. A tad over 43 with a 7.0 and just over 41 with a 7.8. Not too bad.

I have the 5.0 and 5.8 RS Slalom II and 6.6 koncept
Have not been able to use 5.0 yet the 5.8 is probably the best sail i have ever owned have pushed lots of PB's on it
and the 6.6 is a nice sail.
Use all on a Carbon Art Speed 50 with no dramas but my koncept has been my most used sail this season and is thrashed out so I am replacing it with an RS Racing (only 2nd hand though) as i simply prefer the feel of the Prydes and there are no 2nd hand RS Slalom II 6.7s around at the moment

Ive sailed both. I have a 2008 RS Slalom MKII 6.7 and a 2008 KA Koncept 5.8. They are both very different sails and feel very different in the hand. The RS has more range and feels more forgiving. The KA is a bit more twitchy and more top end orientated. I would choose a RS over the KA for the 5.8 if I had the choice again.

Has Chris Lockwood changed sail sponsors?

thanks for the thoughts guys!
its nice to hear comments from people who have sailed/owned both and as the preferences seem to vary a demo on a koncept would be a good idea so i can see for my self!

The conditions on Friday were the best I've seen at Melville. Its good to try other sails, and I had the opportunity to use them in good conditions.

Clearly the NP are fast. As are the KAs. But they have quite a different feel. The NP is a lot stiffer, giving loads of power with a locked shape. The KA is softer, giving your arms a bit of a break when the gusts slam, or when rotating the sail out of gybes.

I have the new RSS III in 6.2/7/9.5. I have gone faster in the fist couple of sessions than I did on the RS racings. I notice someone has just done over 40 with the 6.2 and I have done over 37. There is a lot less downhaul in the new shape, the bottom end has increased a lot, and the top end is great. I have no doubt the 6.2 goes into 5.8 weather with no problems due to the extreme compact clew, which is perfect for speed sailing. Plus I use x6 masts, which keeps the cost down. I'm so impressed I'll order a 5.5 soon.

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Katapult said...

Ive sailed both. I have a 2008 RS Slalom MKII 6.7 and a 2008 KA Koncept 5.8. They are both very different sails and feel very different in the hand. The RS has more range and feels more forgiving. The KA is a bit more twitchy and more top end orientated. I would choose a RS over the KA for the 5.8 if I had the choice again.

Has Chris Lockwood changed sail sponsors?

kinda off topic i don't know if i questioned this before but will the x6 suffice as a mast instead of the ultra expensive x9 for the rs racing

rs racings use x9's, some people do use x6's as a cheaper option

i use an x6 in my 10.7, its a 550 & a stiffer than the x9 530. The sail rigs well & has plenty of power, i had to shorten a 2-3 cm off a few battens to get it to rotate, goes around no problem now

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eastcoast said...

hi there folks i currently sail NP rs slaloms 5.8 7.2 8.4

Are your RSS's a Mk1 or MK11. There is quite a difference with MK11 over Mk1. The Mk11 is a softer and smoother sail, less rig tension and more power. I believe the MK111 model takes this a step further. I also found that the MK11 were less fiddly to get the tune right compared to Mk1.

I'll be upgrading to the Mk111 which are supposed to have more range. But the sizes have changed. 6.7 & 7.2 are replaced by a 7m and the 8.4 is now 8.6.

The problem with changing brands is mast compatibility, but I believe the Pryde masts work on the KA's.

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seano said...

i use an x6 in my 10.7, its a 550 & a stiffer than the x9 530. The sail rigs well & has plenty of power, i had to shorten a 2-3 cm off a few battens to get it to rotate, goes around no problem now

thanks too elmo..as seano says am now a bit confident to use this on the rs racing..damn sail broke 2 masts last yearso with your comments i guess it's safe..but why stiffer Seanowould this be harder to tug when downhaulingquestions3x! i just don't want to spend another dime for just one sail

off topic again! a word of caution i don't know if this is true to all who uses NP..but my v8 08' and rs racing's tack pulleys are rusted and cracked so am trying to order before they just slingshot and put a hole on the boardfunny the old exact v8's have more better stainless..what the @$% is going on[}:)]

waiting for wind,
the 5.8 / 7.2 are mk1's and the 8.4 a mk2 would be nice to put a mk3 up next to koncept to feel the difference, bit of a pain they resized the range i really like the 5.8 size and 7.0 seems a big gap...wish they binned the 6.2 an kept the 6.7

jp747 - the 10.7 recommends a 530 x9 with 44cm extension. An X9 was out of my budget, a 520 x6 needs even more extension so the 550 was a good option for me.
It probably does make it harder to downhaul, i havent tried with an x9.
Best way to get it tuned if you have the option is to find some one with the same sail on an x9 & adjust your downhaul / batten length until it looks the same.

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seano said...

jp747 - the 10.7 recommends a 530 x9 with 44cm extension. An X9 was out of my budget, a 520 x6 needs even more extension so the 550 was a good option for me.
It probably does make it harder to downhaul, i havent tried with an x9.
Best way to get it tuned if you have the option is to find some one with the same sail on an x9 & adjust your downhaul / batten length until it looks the same.

makes sense seano however everyone uses a different brand in my part of the islands and there's only 6 of us