I agree, but how can it be determined if a file comes from an approved device? does it have a hardware signature?

powersloshin said..
I agree, but how can it be determined if a file comes from an approved device? does it have a hardware signature?

Yes. Files from different devices have unique characteristics.

I have deliberately kept out of GPSTC admin and politics as my decision to resign from the GPSTC meant that the new admin committee needed to establish their own identity and authority without me interfering. My main reason for establishing the GPSTC was to create a team based culture within an individual sport, with the main purpose being to develop and build friendships within the community. I think in this respect the GPSTC has been a huge success! Just ask people travelling around Australia what the GPSTC has done. This I argue remains the most important thing and must not be lost. Also do not forget that windsurfing is also about fun and fitness, don’t lose sight of this while chasing “Numbers”, and focussing too much on what numbers the others do and how they get them. The competitive aspect of the GPSTC (as competition generally is) is a two edged sword. On the one side it creates motivation, excitement and a sense of achievement, and on the other side it brings out the ugly side of human nature like greed, jealousy, cheating, power plays…… It was the stress of the ugly politics of the GPSTC that led to my resignation. Remember the committee is made up of volunteers, they don’t get paid, they spend their time working for you for free, and they shouldn’t have to tolerate being abused. None of you pay fees, you get to play for free, and if you spend big on equipment it is your own choice no-one has forced you to have the biggest and best of toys, just enjoy that you have them. In life it is impossible to keep everyone happy, if the committee goes to the right, the people on the left will whinge like hell, and if the committee goes left those on the right will whinge. There is no one single solution to keep everyone happy. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the GPSTC it is only within the mindset and behaviour of human beings that problems are created. It is impossible to change the nature of human beings, the easiest thing to change is the mindset and expectations you have about the GPSTC and the people within it. Don’t lose sight of the friendships and fun of windsurfing, have a good think about why you are windsurfing? This doesn’t mean the GPSTC can’t be tweaked, offer respectful and constructive advice/solutions, and maybe share the load of being on the committee??

If anyone is interested in this topic go to NSW and GPSTC - NSW results for 2015 and though some of the comments
were deleted it goes to the underlying facts that a lot of us are wondering about scoring methods.
Read Sailquik response on 5/1/2016 to Jimbob and my comments about this issue.

Who checks the overseas scores? and what type of Gps are they using.

Steve Charles said...
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.

Ditto

Steve Charles said..
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.

No.

We have been through that issue over and over.

While KA72 is a great service to all sailors and most of the time it give accurate results but it is far from infallible. In fact most of the disputes we have addressed are as a direct result of posters blindly accepting and posting grossly erroneous results from KA72. (eg. did you really believe that 40+ 2 seconds 'PB' was real when all the rest of your runs were in the mid 20's, or you did a 29 knots NM when you best 10 seconds run was 26???) Another issue we are dealing with is a prime example of this.

The file in question was rubbish. It was from an unapproved device which was clearly not even set up as well as it could be. It used 'Auto' track-points (not Doppler) so there were large gaps between data points all through it. GPS-Results and GPSAR-Pro rejected most of the file data as they should in these circumstances and gave some low results in only a couple of divisions and none in most. RealSpeed reads the track and rejects the huge spikes that were posted as the 2 second peak speed, and filters out the worst of the errors but not all. KA72 failed to reject the huge spikes and failed to reject results with only a few track-points many seconds apart. Fortunately, and in this case quite properly, it was queried, and the file sent in for checking.

This is just one reason, among many others already expanded upon, that this is a bad idea.

aussieboats said..
i agree just everyone post in ka 72 and there should be no issues ,as they say its just fun

See my reply above. That this would resolve any of the issues some seem to be obsessed by is actually not the case at all. In fact, it is hard to see how it would address any of the issues we have delt with to date.

Matt. It is not a fix at all.

What we need is for people to follow the rules and post from approved devices which are set up correctly.
We need people to think carefully about the results they get from whatever software they are using before they blindly accept it as correct.
And above all we need people to continue to trust and respect each others and their own integrity and help each other out.
If you see results that seem strange, draw them to the attention firstly of the poster, or to the team captain, and if that does not resolve it, the GPSTC committee.

Steve Charles said..
Wow this is a real shame it has got to this. Fighting is def not gunna help. Hey GPSTC committee can we just make it compulsory everyone has to post on KA72.

No, some don't for all kind of reasons. Remember folks its for fun, to be all inclusive and no sheep stations

sorry Swallowtail but who are you? Where do you sail? Where are you from? Are you even a member of the GPSTC? Should we be waiting to find out who you are from the grapevine?
Only 17 posts and one of them is a comment about somebodies posts who have been removed because they were adding fuel to this fire.

sailquik said...

aussieboats said..
i agree just everyone post in ka 72 and there should be no issues ,as they say its just fun

See my reply above. That this would resolve any of the issues some seem to be obsessed by is actually not the case at all. In fact, it is hard to see how it would address any of the issues we have delt with to date.

Matt. It is not a fix at all.

What we need is for people to follow the rules and post from approved devices which are set up correctly.
We need people to think carefully about the results they get from whatever software they are using before they blindly accept it as correct.
And above all we need people to continue to trust and respect each others and their own integrity and help each other out.
If you see results that seem strange, draw them to the attention firstly of the poster, or to the team captain, and if that does not resolve it, the GPSTC committee.

Maybe ka72 should start a new gps comp .
the files are transparently available for scrutiny by all.still using approved gps units .6 to 8 knot 2sec on a 5 by10 is common on the gold coast with all the buildings in the way.
Most if not all of us are honest that i have met.

I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.

So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)

I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.

*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)

Why can't all team captains be issued Realspeed software?
The team captain is then responsible for posting all PB and scoring (Jellybean) files.

Holly snapping duck poo, there's cheaters in the GPSTC, here I was thinking that it only happens in footy, cricket, horse and dog racing, cards and board games and or even in marriages, now I'm told it's even happening here. Well put me on record, I don't give a flying rats, yeh I know that's just me but it's important to you, woopie doo. Mike makes an informative post, someone has a winge and ferk me it's on

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I thank the past and present GPSTC committee for everything they do, I thank all the sailors I have met through this comp for your friendships, beers, laughs and making me realise I'm not as good as I thought I was.

I know I might sound like a clown and this is a very important discussion to some, but I'll just stick to the rules, sail, post and smile, it ain't hard, just saying

BC has asked me to take this post down because he thinks it's targeting his team.
Was this part of the removed posts?
Any way I certainly wasn't directing this at any particular team or person.
But It's sure created a very unexpected response, I must have hit a bit of a raw nerve.
But from Ben and Brian's posts, it's had a constructive outcome, so I'll be making no move to take the thread down.
Brilliant idea guys! Downloadable data, should take away any innuendo, and make all results easy to check.

nebbian said..

sausage said..
I too was a big supporter of mandatory posting via KA72 but it has been proven that KA72 itself is not perfect all the time - in fact as Sailquik has mentioned, KA72 doesn't always filter suspect trackpoints etc. unlike the other software on the market e.g. realspeed/ GPSResults GPSPAR etc.

So where to from here considering this still seems to be a very raw subject?......I would like to explore whether the GPSTC has the capacity to store say a week's / fortnight's or a month's worth of track files for anyone to be able to download and run through their own software for checking if they believe it may contain some erroneous numbers (and before someone bleats on about secret spots etc I don't believe that to be a valid argument). Nothing would stop you posting to GPSTC either manually via your preferred software programme(s) or auto upload facility via KA72, although you would be required to upload the track (it'd take no more effort than uploading a photo or vid*)

I see this as a win win for all parties i.e.those for mandatory posting via KA72 and those against using KA72 as the one stop shop for posting.

*Nebs, how much work would this entail to incorporate into the website or is it just too onerous? rough calcs of half a meg per file average times 1400 sessions per fortnight equates to about 700MB of storage capacity (please correct)

Believe it or not I was wondering the same thing on my lunch break. I don't think that it would be ridiculously hard, you could even have a system where the file is public by default, but the poster could tick a box to make it private if they wanted. Then only an admin or the team captain could download it.

If it's something that would solve this issue then I'd be happy to code this in. It might even make it possible to repost to GPS-SS again

This would be helpful for the team captains. Waiting for a team member to send you his track can take some time.