www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=rankings

To do 30 knots 10s average you need a bit of skill and decent kit. I've only done > 30 6 times, years ago on slalom boards and 3 cam freerace sail. Since I switched to freeride sails, no where near.

I had a look on GPS-Speedsurfing for the number of people who went > 30 & > 40 in brackets.

2023 830 (135)
2019 756 (124)
2015 819 (131)
2011 741 (94).

I think as the availability of devices has gone up, then more people are posting sessions.
The kit has got faster (I would assume), You also need wind as well, which I would guess is a key point in sneaking in a speed just over 30.

But good to see numbers havent dropped off with all this winging nonsense.

I guess if you want to do > 30, get some slalom kit. If you want to do > 40, get a speed board. Not a given though.

If the brands are worrying about fins being killed off by foils on the PWA scene, maybe they should look into promoting GPS speed sailing more. Some do already, Like Nils Bach (currently Point 7), he has a YT channel. Some speedsters post on FB from time to time. Dunkerbeck has his speed event, but I'm wondering if he is driving that or Severne.

Plenty of speed sailing vids from Albany, Glory Holes, Coods, Liptons in WA and Lake George SA.

My experience is that gear has not really got faster. Maybe by a small margin, but not by much.

I think what is driving those figures is:

- More people have got faster gear as they saw what was possible on that gear.

- More people have found and know about really good speed sailing spots and know when to go to them due to better being able to get good forecasts, and learning what conditions make it worth going.

Personally, the speed equipment I was using in 2006 is very much the same as what I use now. The board is the same one, my sails are easier to control, but very similar. My fins have not been improved on, except that in 2006 I sailed flat water behind a sandbar, with assy pointer fins, and now 98% of my speed sailing is using weed fins in shallow weedy spots. So arguably, my fins are not as fast, but the conditions I sail on are flatter, and the angles I can sail are much free'r. My fastest peak and 10 sec speeds were done between 2006 and 2013. Before the speed strip at Sandy Point deteriorated badly. I get flatter water and more speed sailing now, but most of it is at Lake George, South Australia, and it is quite rare to get the winds strong enough for me to approach my PB's at that venue.

So I would say that the overriding factor is still being able to get more wind at the ideal angle with flat water. It's that access and being in the right place at the right time on the right gear that is by far the biggest factor. Equipment advances far less so.

I am sure the same factors would apply in Europe.

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sailquik said..
My experience is that gear has not really got faster. Maybe by a small margin, but not by much.

I think what is driving those figures is:

- More people have got faster gear as they saw what was possible on that gear.

- More people have found and know about really good speed sailing spots and know when to go to them due to better being able to get good forecasts, and learning what conditions make it worth going.

Personally, the speed equipment I was using in 2006 is very much the same as what I use now. The board is the same one, my sails are easier to control, but very similar. My fins have not been improved on, except that in 2006 I sailed flat water behind a sandbar, with assy pointer fins, and now 98% of my speed sailing is using weed fins in shallow weedy spots. So arguably, my fins are not as fast, but the conditions I sail on are flatter, and the angles I can sail are much free'r. My fastest peak and 10 sec speeds were done between 2006 and 2013. Before the speed strip at Sandy Point deteriorated badly. I get flatter water and more speed sailing now, but most of it is at Lake George, South Australia, and it is quite rare to get the winds strong enough for me to approach my PB's at that venue.

So I would say that the overriding factor is still being able to get more wind at the ideal angle with flat water. It's that access and being in the right place at the right time on the right gear that is by far the biggest factor. Equipment advances far less so.

I am sure the same factors would apply in Europe.

Maybe time for some revoultieny invention for x riders?
Or we hit physical limits what can be done with board and hooked sail?

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sailquik said..
My experience is that gear has not really got faster. Maybe by a small margin, but not by much.
etc

I've not used full on slalom kit for years, since the late 90s. It does sound like its easier to rig and use now. Although when I've picked up GA/Duotone/Phantom race sails in the rigging rea and rotated them I thought not for me. A Severne OD did impress though.
I think you are right about the gear not being that much faster. But perhaps easier to use for mere mortals. This and people spreading the word has led to more people doing it. The main point is numbers arent falling.

I've been looking at GPS results for a couple of locals. The largest gains in Poole Harbour have been from using a 'new' spot, since Dec 2020. Its 1.5 miles upwind from the nearest launch spot. The water looks a lot flatter there. I've not sailed there. It needs a high tide.
Last year 4 of them went up to West Kirby (280 miles away) for a couple of days. All had PBs by around 4 to 7 knots faster than local spots.

"New" spots certainly play a role. One of the best speed spots in Oz is Albany, WA. Over the last few years, both the number of sessions and the number of sailors per session there has gone up a lot, as word has spread. Most windsurfers set PBs there the first time they get decent wind. It's particularly good for alphas, nautis, distance, and hours, but plenty of top speed and 5x10 records have been broken there, too. That includes multiple 40-knot firsts, including one by a 70+ year old decrepit guy .

Once you break a barrier like 30 or 40 knots, breaking it again is a lot easier than the first time. Even if you don't get the 40 again quickly because you don't have the conditions for it, there's a very good chance that your speeds in similar conditions go up. This probably contributes to the increase in numbers.

Added the number of people going over 25 knots 10s average at the end. This will include more people on freeride kit who the brands could encourage to buy slalom kit, if they wanted.

2023 830 (135) 1250
2019 756 (124) 1161
2015 819 (131) 1197
2011 741 (94) 1137

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Macroscien said..
Maybe time for some revoultieny invention for x riders?
Or we hit physical limits what can be done with board and hooked sail?

The aliens have given us tech for unlimited-energy, interstellar-travel and for a revolutionary advance in windsurfing.

But the corporate overlords that run the world, have decided that we are not allowed to use any of this new tech.

In answer to the OPs original question re numbers doing GPS speed sailing going up. Not in the GPS Team Challenge. The figures for Number of participants, >30kts 5 x 10 and > 40kts 5 x 10 are as follows:

Year Participants >30 5x10 >40 5x10
2023 409 275 37
2019 588 369 27
2015 789 502 71
2011 735 461 61

After peaking with 840 participants in 2013 the GPSTC has been in steady decline with 40 to 50 less participants each year.

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John340 said..
In answer to the OPs original question re numbers doing GPS speed sailing going up. Not in the GPS Team Challenge. The figures for Number of participants, >30kts 5 x 10 and > 40kts 5 x 10 are as follows:

Year Participants >30 5x10 >40 5x10
2023 409 275 37
2019 588 369 27
2015 789 502 71
2011 735 461 61

After peaking with 840 participants in 2013 the GPSTC has been in steady decline with 40 to 50 less participants each year.

Interesting also coukd be to see TOW statistics over years.
I suspect that have less and less time for sailing.
TOW we could substitute with distances sailed each year.
At least at this categories > 30 ktn

Gear is getting faster and skills every year. a snippet of history i found online a while back up to 2012

The History of Speed sailing - Outright Record 1972 : Crossbow I sets World Speed sailing record at 26.3 knots. 1972 : First RYA Speed week held at Weymouth. 1976 : Crossbow II move the record to 36 knots. 1977 : Windsurfers first appear at speed competitions. Ken Winner and Mike Waltze come across from Hawaii to enter the Weymouth event, but are beaten by Dirk Thijs from Holland who does 19.1 knots on a standard Windglider. No straps no harness. 1980 : Jaap van der Rest sets new record at 24.45 knots at Maalaea Bay (Maui) on a Ten Cate Special. He took several weeks with a paid RYA observer to break the record. 1982 : Brest Speed Week; Out of 225 competitors, Philip Pudenze breaks the World record with a run of 26.5 knots. Most competitors now sailing on special speed boards, and the "25 knots club" got formed with only six members. 1982 : RYA Speed Week; Pascal Maka sets new World windsurfing record at 27.8 knots on a Jimmy Lewis custom board. 1983 : Weymouth Speed Trials; Fred Heywood enters the scene with a new record of 30.82 knots aided by a massive back up team from Hawaii including Barry Spanier and Geoff Bourne, - and using a carbon wing instead of a mast. 1984 : Peter Bridgeman (UK) becomes the second man to break the 30 knots barrier. 1985 : Port St. Louis France; 50 knots wind speed and 8 sailors beat the World record. The fastest of them is Michael Pucher at 32. 35 knots. 1986 : July 21st. Sotavento, Fuerteventura; Windsurfing becomes the fastest sailing sport in the World as Pascal Maka breaks the fourteen years dominance of Crossbow II with a speed at 38.86 knots. On a Jimmy Lewis board and Gaastra sail. Three others also break the record: Eric Beale (36.73) Jimmy Lewis (36.31) and Fred Heywood. (36.13) Eugen Dunkerbeck claims production board record on an F2 Starlit at 34.60 knots, and yes.- that was a wave board. 1987 : The Camargue Wind Club finish construction of the 800 meter long St. Marie speed canal. It was also angled perfectly to accommodate the Mistral winds. 1988 : Pascal Maka beats off the challenge from the nine-ton hydrofoil Trimaran "Paca" with 310 sqm rig. Maka (84 kg) uses a 4.4 sqm Gaastra Slalomfoil to amaze the yachting world. 1988 : November; Eric Beale breaks the 40 knots barrier with a run of 40.5 knots at the speed canal, now known as the "Trench". However, the run was made at a private trials and the dominant Pascal Maka was not invited. 1989 : Sotavento; Roddy Lewis wins with 38.28 knots with Dunkerbeck close behind on a slalom board. 1989 : Pascal Maka retakes the title wth a 42.91 knots run at the Trench. 1990 :F2 Sputnik 270 was launched. Dave White (GBR) immediately uses it to set a new production record at 39.10 knots. 1991: March; Thierry Bielak sets new record of 43.06 knots at the Trench in private trials. 1991: July; Thierry Bielak pushes up the bar again at the Trench. 44.66 knots. 1991: Nick Luget and Tushingham win the Wind Swatch event at the Trench with a run of 41.22 knots, beating record holder Bielak and Maka in the process. 1991: Dunkerbeck blasts everyone away with a 43.34 knots run in Tarifa to become the fastest sailor in history on a natural (off shore) course. 1991: October; Dave White (GBR) breaks production Board Speed Record at West Kirby on a F2 Sputnik 270 at 42.16 knots.. 1993 : Australia. Yellow Pages Endeavour, a 30 foot Proa. Retakes the World Record with a speed of 46.52 knots. 1993 : Thierry Bielak lift the Windsurfing record to 45.32 knots at the Trench. this record stood for many years as speed sailing went through a unpopular period. Various attempts were made by Bjorn Dunkerbeck, Robbie Naish and Anders Bringdal but none came close to setting a new record until 2004. A new challenge was set in the trench in France organised by Pascal Maka as race director. This resulted in. 2004 : 46.82 knots. Finian Maynard (BVI) set a new record at the Trench. 2004 : David White (GBR) sets new Production board record on an F2 Missile at 44.03 knots 2005 : 48.70 knots. Finian improves his record at the Trench 2008 : 49.09 knots. Antoine Albeau (FRA) takes the outright record .in the Trench. In 2008 a new craft to speedsailing, Kiteboard, found a new speed spot in Namibia called Luderitz. An old Diamond mining town known for its very strong winds and shallow offshore bays it was the perfect location for the new breed of speed kiters. 2009 :. Luderitz, NAM. First the record falls to a Kiteboarder -Rob Douglas (USA) 49.84 - then Seb Cattelan (FRA) breaks the 50 knot barrier with 50.26 - finally the record falls to Alex Caizergues (FRA) 50.57 knots 2009 : 51.36. Hydroptere a 50 foot foiling Trimaran skippered by Alain Thebault (FRA) and his crew snatch the title at Hyere in France. 2010 : 55.65. The kiteboarder's reclaim the record - first Alex Caizergues 54.10- then Seb Cattelan 55,49 - and finally Rob Douglas with 55.65 knots. A new canal has been constructed and tested in 2011 at Luderitz Namibia approximately 300m inland of the old course and at a slightly broader angle to the wind and most importantly deeper. This new course will be ready for the planned 2012 attempt by Kite and windsurfers.

www.internationalwindsurfing.com/userfiles/documents/ISWC_The_History_of_Speed_Outright_Record.pdf

Is GPS Team Challenge the application where a 'proper' doppler device is mandatory?

I've just done a quick eyeball check on GPS Speedsurfing for 2015 & 2023. In 2023, a lot more people ranked 500 or greater are using a non doppler device*. A quick sample of 2015 and the GT-31 was used by all doppler device users I looked at. Now thats not available, maybe people have switched to non doppler devices as some recent ones have been a bit unreliable build quality wise and expensive. Or 'smart watches' as they are readily available and more wearable day to day. They arent that inaccurate for fun sailing, but not accurate enough for top 100.

So maybe GPS Team Challenge users have switched to GPS Speedsurfing

*Or maybe they havent entered their device. I dont know. I assume auto upload via a smartphone tells the application the device used.

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TRIMMER said..
www.internationalwindsurfing.com/userfiles/documents/ISWC_The_History_of_Speed_Outright_Record.pdf

Is gear getting faster for the average GPS sailor?
Do some spots have a maximum speed obtainable as they are more difficult to sail at, compared to specialised speed spots.
As Sailquik said, kit is getting a bit faster, but not much. Sailors are learning more as well.

Garry's Portland Harbour speeds over the years. He has had decent slalom kit. December 2023 and January 2024 were very good for wind.
The spot itself hasnt changed over the years.


For Poole Harbour, since Dec 2020 they started sailing a new spot, which is better for speeds, hard work to get to. Only used at higher tides. There cant be many 'new spots' like that. I've taken out the <27 knot sessions as he now uses foil in lighter winds.

My main point in the thread is that numbers havent dropped.

Simon Pettifer's sessions. He was 3rd in UK slalom last year.

Amit you are an AI dick, answer that !

Discovering better spots would be the main reason, Hans is sitting 2nd at The Prince of Speed event using an old EVO 9

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powersloshin said..
Amit you are an AI dick, answer that !

?

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PhilUK said..

powersloshin said..
Amit you are an AI dick, answer that !

?

Amit's AI post since disappeared

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Mr Keen said..

PhilUK said..

powersloshin said..
Amit you are an AI dick, answer that !

?

Amit's AI post since disappeared

I thought that might be the case, Amit is an male Indian name.
But thought it could also be admit with a typo missing the d

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sailquik said..
My experience is that gear has not really got faster. Maybe by a small margin, but not by much.

I think what is driving those figures is:

- More people have got faster gear as they saw what was possible on that gear.

- More people have found and know about really good speed sailing spots and know when to go to them due to better being able to get good forecasts, and learning what conditions make it worth going.

Personally, the speed equipment I was using in 2006 is very much the same as what I use now. The board is the same one, my sails are easier to control, but very similar. My fins have not been improved on, except that in 2006 I sailed flat water behind a sandbar, with assy pointer fins, and now 98% of my speed sailing is using weed fins in shallow weedy spots. So arguably, my fins are not as fast, but the conditions I sail on are flatter, and the angles I can sail are much free'r. My fastest peak and 10 sec speeds were done between 2006 and 2013. Before the speed strip at Sandy Point deteriorated badly. I get flatter water and more speed sailing now, but most of it is at Lake George, South Australia, and it is quite rare to get the winds strong enough for me to approach my PB's at that venue.

So I would say that the overriding factor is still being able to get more wind at the ideal angle with flat water. It's that access and being in the right place at the right time on the right gear that is by far the biggest factor. Equipment advances far less so.

I am sure the same factors would apply in Europe.

Ahhh 2006 the first 6.6 koncept.
I'm still using the same model 5.8 just rebuilt the Dow haul pulley( rusted away) and it has its own unique graphics ( stripes of red Dacron sticky back)
but now on Yorke in SA and scoping some interesting spots.

To get decent speed runs you need to be prepared to drop everything at a moments notice and drive a fair distance to the "spot" where you'll get a chance of a good result on GPSTC if the wind blows at a decent strength, in the right direction and when the tide is just right. Not everyone has the time or the inclination to do that and so it may take the shine off participating in GPSTC if your run at the local spot is never going to rate, no matter how good you or your gear are. That may be a bit of a hurdle to many considering joining GPSTC or staying with it. Maybe some sort of a location weighting system like used with KA72 could form a category within GPSTC to encourage partcipation for those not prepared to be storm-chasers? Or possibly a location- based adjustment factor could be made for all competition in GPSTC so that someone would have to go 4knt faster in Albany than at Safety Bay to get the same score?

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TopcatRacing said..
To get decent speed runs you need to be prepared to drop everything at a moments notice and drive a fair distance to the "spot" where you'll get a chance of a good result on GPSTC if the wind blows at a decent strength, in the right direction and when the tide is just right. Not everyone has the time or the inclination to do that and so it may take the shine off participating in GPSTC if your run at the local spot is never going to rate, no matter how good you or your gear are. That may be a bit of a hurdle to many considering joining GPSTC or staying with it. Maybe some sort of a location weighting system like used with KA72 could form a category within GPSTC to encourage partcipation for those not prepared to be storm-chasers? Or possibly a location- based adjustment factor could be made for all competition in GPSTC so that someone would have to go 4knt faster in Albany than at Safety Bay to get the same score?

But that is where you compare like with like. Ie similar spot, equipment,skill.

Fair comment Topcat, but since the beginning of the GPSTC, this has always been the case. The focus has shifted from spot to spot over the years as different spot have had their days.

But it's really not all about the highest speeds. It's more about the quest. Chasing speed is a very ephemeral thing. Sandbars shift around, sand dunes build up, river channels and entrance/estury channels appear and disappear, weed beds grow and die back, water levels go up and down, Weather pattens come and go. Nothing stays the same, except perhaps the great friends we make and meet in our common interest.

There is great potential reward for storm chasing if thats your thing, and from personal experience I can tell you there is great potential for skunkings as well. But there is also great reward in refining your skills and speeds at whatever is your local pond. To get the best from what you have available is always rewarding, and each session, week, month and year is a new opportunity.

Besides that, I can't imagine any realistic workable handicap system that could take into account the massive amount of variables involved in this sport and across such a vast array of different environments.

When I conceived the Idea of a GPS teams challenge, for me the 2 main driving factors were the team element in building relationships, and a further excuse to windsurf with more reasons to travel and search for new spots. Mission accomplished I think. Lets never forget the feeling and sensations of windsurfing and windsurfing at speed, is that not the ultimate goal/achievement/reward? Measuring and experiencing speed has an addiction and obsessive element to it, taps into our primitive nervous system to enhance our chances of survival. Life isnt fair so how in the hell could we make the GPSTC fair?

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hardie said..
When I conceived the Idea of a GPS teams challenge, for me the 2 main driving factors were the team element in building relationships, and a further excuse to windsurf with more reasons to travel and search for new spots. Mission accomplished I think. Let's never forget the feeling and sensations of windsurfing and windsurfing at speed, is that not the ultimate goal/achievement/reward? Measuring and experiencing speed has an addiction and obsessive element to it, taps into our primitive nervous system to enhance our chances of survival. Life isnt fair so how in the hell could we make the GPSTC fair?

Also when you conceived this idea of building relationships and community, you thought it wouldn't last a year.... I say this proudly.. you were wrong
Loves ya Hard's

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hardie said..
When I conceived the Idea of a GPS teams challenge, for me the 2 main driving factors were the team element in building relationships, and a further excuse to windsurf with more reasons to travel and search for new spots. Mission accomplished.

Well accomplished indeed! Besides many great relationships and other things, GPSTC gave us the reason to travel from the US to Oz for playing on the water ... which also has a high addiction risk, so hopefully, we'll see you again this year. I think if you'd put your mind to figuring out how to herd cats, you'd probably figure that out, too .

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boardsurfr said..

hardie said..
When I conceived the Idea of a GPS teams challenge, for me the 2 main driving factors were the team element in building relationships, and a further excuse to windsurf with more reasons to travel and search for new spots. Mission accomplished.

Well accomplished indeed! Besides many great relationships and other things, GPSTC gave us the reason to travel from the US to Oz for playing on the water ... which also has a high addiction risk, so hopefully, we'll see you again this year. I think if you'd put your mind to figuring out how to herd cats, you'd probably figure that out, too .

I'm in a rock band and trying to organize the musos to all be available to rehearse at the same time has convinced me I'd rather he herding cats