any tips on adjusting my style to suit the more outboard straps on the slalom board I just picked up? I'm currently riding a rocket and have the straps as far out and back as possible, but the straps on my new slalom board look like they're a long way out there. I've only really just got comfortable getting in the straps on my rocket without looking down. I'm hoping I'm ready for the challenge of a better, faster board.

Select to expand quote

2035 said..
I've only really just got comfortable getting in the straps on my rocket without looking down. I'm hoping I'm ready for the challenge of a better, faster board.

getting in to the straps shouldn't be a problem , getting out of the straps you need to set your self up before hand , wiggle both feet out so there not tight going into the entry of a jibe

Thanks Keef... makes me feel a bit more confident.

Get the board up and planing out of the straps with your feet somewhere between them keeping the board flat, not tilted towards you.

Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in. If you have weight on your back foot and boom you should be able to wave your front foot around as much as you like!

You really need to be pretty much fully planing and sheeted in with the rig raked back before you try to get in the straps. Look down if you need too. No harm in that as long as you are holding the rig and board steady.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Get the board up and planing out of the straps with your feet somewhere between them keeping the board flat, not tilted towards you.

Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in. If you have weight on your back foot and boom you should be able to wave your front foot around as much as you like!

You really need to be pretty much fully planing and sheeted in with the rig raked back before you try to get in the straps. Look down if you need too. No harm in that as long as you are holding the rig and board steady.

...........and then hang on and smile, you will be riding a Falcon, so your life will never be the same again. Onwards and Upwards 2035.

Select to expand quote

AJEaster said..

sailquik said..
Get the board up and planing out of the straps with your feet somewhere between them keeping the board flat, not tilted towards you.

Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in. If you have weight on your back foot and boom you should be able to wave your front foot around as much as you like!

You really need to be pretty much fully planing and sheeted in with the rig raked back before you try to get in the straps. Look down if you need too. No harm in that as long as you are holding the rig and board steady.

...........and then hang on and smile, you will be riding a Falcon, so your life will never be the same again. Onwards and Upwards 2035.

Cheers guys... frothin. It's gusting up to 23knts already and the boss has given me an early pass. I expect to spend more time in the water today than usual, but hoping I at least get a few good runs in.

I found it took a while fo me to get used to the outer straps especially rear one coming from a rocket. getting used to where to find them now. I do find the board accelerates quickly so I like to get my rear foot in as quick as possible even if I wieght the front one..(just worried re catapult). Ff79ltre. Have fun! Waiting for wind to pickup a bit more at Lake George

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..
Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in.

Really?! Have I been doing it completely wrong?

I always have my front foot in front of the front strap, the back foot in front and touching the back strap. Get planing, then front foot in first, then pull down for MSP, then back foot in.

Is there an option to have the straps inboard initially? It might help ease the transition.

(I'm a front foot first kinda guy too)

Select to expand quote

GrumpySmurf said..

sailquik said..
Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in.

Really?! Have I been doing it completely wrong?

I always have my front foot in front of the front strap, the back foot in front and touching the back strap. Get planing, then front foot in first, then pull down for MSP, then back foot in.

Yep!

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

GrumpySmurf said..

sailquik said..
Then put your back foot in first whilst pushing on the board with your front foot between the back and front straps. Lean back, hang down on the boom for max mast foot pressure, sheet in more and put your front foot in.

Really?! Have I been doing it completely wrong?

I always have my front foot in front of the front strap, the back foot in front and touching the back strap. Get planing, then front foot in first, then pull down for MSP, then back foot in.

Yep!

I'm doing it wrong too then.

I actually find in lighter conditions that I spend a fair bit of time with back foot not in strap, so it makes sense to put front foot in first and then put back foot in when the speed/wind improves. I have an isonic (straps very wide on rail) and it can be difficult to get the back foot in in strong conditions once you are already going fast in big chop. I tend to get in the straps before or as I get on the plane in these conditions and then sheet in and pull up on the straps to get on the plane.

+1 with front foot first

Select to expand quote

seanhogan said..
+1 with front foot first

Select to expand quote

vosadrian said..

I'm doing it wrong too then.

I'm reckoning that Sailquik is pulling our leg (or foot :). I just spent hours watching videos and have not seen one shot of a person putting in their back foot first. Moreover, I cannot imagine ever having your front foot between the front and rear straps (unless you're on a long board)

Select to expand quote

GrumpySmurf said..

seanhogan said..
+1 with front foot first

vosadrian said..

I'm doing it wrong too then.

I'm reckoning that Sailquik is pulling our leg (or foot :). I just spent hours watching videos and have not seen one shot of a person putting in their back foot first. Moreover, I cannot imagine ever having your front foot between the front and rear straps (unless you're on a long board)

Adrian your doing exactly the right thing. Sailquik sets him self up for a 2sec max,oversized sail and undersized board.You probably resort to this too when the wind increases suddenly and you find yourself with way to big a sail. I'm guessing Sailquik also waterstarts with both feet in the straps. He is a great sailor who has been sailing a long time so can get away with some old bad habits . I don't think he has done a Guy Cribb course to keep up to date.

Select to expand quote

GrumpySmurf said..

seanhogan said..
+1 with front foot first

vosadrian said..

I'm doing it wrong too then.

I'm reckoning that Sailquik is pulling our leg (or foot :). I just spent hours watching videos and have not seen one shot of a person putting in their back foot first. Moreover, I cannot imagine ever having your front foot between the front and rear straps (unless you're on a long board)

+2 for front foot first

Select to expand quote

GrumpySmurf said..

seanhogan said..
+1 with front foot first

vosadrian said..

I'm doing it wrong too then.

I'm reckoning that Sailquik is pulling our leg (or foot :). I just spent hours watching videos and have not seen one shot of a person putting in their back foot first. Moreover, I cannot imagine ever having your front foot between the front and rear straps (unless you're on a long board)

Nope. Not pulling your leg:

I'm not sure who is red thumbing Daffy but you should pay more attention to lessons given by one of Australia's best. I've never tried back foot first myself but there is no denying that's one slick gybe with back foot in first.
I think the difference is most of us are not that efficient on the water (like above video) and the front strap is easiest to plug your foot into when starting to plane. Just take your time to learn your board and it becomes second nature after a while although outboard rear straps on modern slalom boards can be difficult when choppy. Best of luck Nigel and we look forward to your progress on GPSTC.
Cheers
Marty

Front foot first work on wave boards and slowish Freeride boards, but on fast slalom and speed boards when you come out fast and planning, it is hard to keep the board balanced and driving off the fin if you put you front foot in first. The reason is that the centre of resistance is still well back on the board so to sheet in, rake the rig back and keep driving the fin you need the centre of effort (foot pressure) further back.

Hey, it works for me and I have just spent the last few weeks dry gybing my 40cm speed board a few hundred times, and I don't think my Alphas are too bad either for an old bloke.

I am always open to learning and improving though. Please post your own videos of yourself showing me a better way on a fully planing exit with your explanation (but please, not some video of someone else you found on the internet).

Select to expand quote

KA360 said..

Adrian your doing exactly the right thing. Sailquik sets him self up for a 2sec max,oversized sail and undersized board.You probably resort to this too when the wind increases suddenly and you find yourself with way to big a sail. I'm guessing Sailquik also waterstarts with both feet in the straps. He is a great sailor who has been sailing a long time so can get away with some old bad habits . I don't think he has done a Guy Cribb course to keep up to date.

Well actually, I usually sail with smaller sails than most.
I can waterstart with both feet in, but usually don't unless it blowing over 40 knots.
Who is saying I have old bad habits?! Well, I might, but not so much in my sailing techniques!
Guy Cribb probably needs to come to me for a few tips!

Hey! Don't take any Guru's word as the only true way. There are many ways to skin a Gybe. Keep experimenting with an open mind in all different sorts of conditions and different types of equipment. Just because it works on one situation or type, does not necessarily make it the best way on another. The moment you stop analysing, questioning and learning, is the moment you will start getting left behind.


"The older I get, the better I was"
"Often in error, never in doubt!"

Great vid - you've sold me! I'm going to give it a crack. Hell, I'm not that good with front foot first anyway

Wasn't the post by 2035 originally asking about getting into more outboard straps when getting going and nothing to do with a gybe?

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..


Hey! Don't take any Guru's word as the only true way. There are many ways to skin a Gybe. Keep experimenting with an open mind in all different sorts of conditions and different types of equipment. Just because it works on one situation or type, does not necessarily make it the best way on another. The moment you stop analysing, questioning and learning, is the moment you will start getting left behind.

So true.Totally agree.

Select to expand quote

KA360 said..
Wasn't the post by 2035 originally asking about getting into more outboard straps when getting going and nothing to do with a gybe?

Ahhhhh............. yes I think you are correct. Duh!

But the principle still applies to the extent of the context of getting in wide outboard straps. Get the board up and planing. You don't need your feet in the straps for that. Just somewhere between them. Then try getting the back foot in first. Come to think of it. That works for me on a wide formula board as well.....

Hmm,,,, I will have to clear the mind and observe what I actually do in varied situations. I will try to get some video as well.

I am pretty sure that I put the back foot in first when starting the speed board as well......

Select to expand quote

KA360 said..
Wasn't the post by 2035 originally asking about getting into more outboard straps when getting going and nothing to do with a gybe?

Yes it was - demonstrating a "getting into the straps on a wide slalom board" after a gybe, certainly qualifies... unless you sail out permanently out of the straps after you gybe?


So we have the rather normal scenario (ie: unless the wind is blowing its ring off), the board probably should be planing before you get into the straps... ie: if you get into the straps before you get planing, you will probably wont even get planing.

Lets take the "extreme slalom board" example... say a formula board. If you have ever sailed one of those, you will immediately remember that if you went front-foot-first, there was a better than average chance you now had a very nice crease in the nose of your shiny formula board.


As Daffy said, the centre-of-effort varies between boards (and rigs, and people, and fins), so whether you get into the front strap first or the back, depends only lots of factors. eg:

- formula: almost always back foot first.
- speed board: waterstarting back-foot first, gybing half-half
- slalom - very light wind: I am pumping so much, that I put any weight on the tail, it sinks... so front-foot first.
- slalom - fast gybe: centre-of-effort thing... back-foot.
- slalom - other: whatever feels comfortable

2035-I wouldn't advise trying to do it in reverse for now. Just do exactly what you would normally do on your Rocket for now. Make sure you are plenty powered up.Because the straps are further out you will have more leverage,so maybe use 1/2m larger sail than what you would rig for you rocket.
As you start picking up speed,have a quick glance down at where the straps are,so when its time to go for them you brain will have remembered where they are and you won't just stub your toes . Enjoy the speed

The 2 comments above might seem a bit complicated and confusing,but they are more about having a go at me than trying to be helpful to you

Best place for advice is usually from the people you sail with or if on seabreeze the general windsurf section.
The GPS section is only for very serious business and the humour of GPS sailors is almost as flat as the water they use!

Sailquik- I am thinking of getting some booties .I see you use them....



[url=imgflip.com/gif/hwvh6]



I have found some really light ones and cheap too! In you expert opinion,what do you think?

Very Poor taste Mr KA360 Who is having a go at who here?

My advice is squarely aimed at a intermediate windsurfer is is trying to get into the wider straps on a Slalom board. Before you dis it, try it with an open mind!

Addressing the OP: There is no need to get you feet in the straps at all until you are fully planing. When you are fully planing with the rig raked back and pressure on the fin (as you do on a slalom board), it is very awkward to put the front foot in first without stuffing up the balance of the board/rig combination and killing speed. It is actually very easy to get the back foot in first as I described and demonstrated. Try it.

Wasn't having a go at you ,just trying to be funny.

Really, you don't find that picture at least a little bit funny when comparing them to windsurf booties?

Select to expand quote

KA360 said...
2035-I wouldn't advise trying to do it in reverse for now. Just do exactly what you would normally do on your Rocket for now. Make sure you are plenty powered up.Because the straps are further out you will have more leverage,so maybe use 1/2m larger sail than what you would rig for you rocket.
As you start picking up speed,have a quick glance down at where the straps are,so when its time to go for them you brain will have remembered where they are and you won't just stub your toes . Enjoy the speed

The 2 comments above might seem a bit complicated and confusing,but they are more about having a go at me than trying to be helpful to you

Best place for advice is usually from the people you sail with or if on seabreeze the general windsurf section.
The GPS section is only for very serious business and the humour of GPS sailors is almost as flat as the water they use!

Sailquik- I am thinking of getting some booties .I see you use them....



[url=imgflip.com/gif/hwvh6]



I have found some really light ones and cheap too! In you expert opinion,what do you think?

It took me 30secs thinking where you found such thin
booties before I realised what I was looking at... hahaha ribbed for extra grip?

Back on track a little (although temped to try the Durex booties), is there really much difference (speed-wise) between a board like a 93 litre Futura and a Dedicated slalom board like a Falcon or Isonic of simular volume? Are we just talking a few knots, or way faster?

Cheers for any info.

Select to expand quote

PhilSWR said..
Back on track a little (although temped to try the Durex booties), is there really much difference (speed-wise) between a board like a 93 litre Futura and a Dedicated slalom board like a Falcon or Isonic of simular volume? Are we just talking a few knots, or way faster?

Cheers for any info.

Here is where I can be very sure. My mate who is the same size as me has a Futura 111. I have an Isonic 111. We sail together a lot at Sandy Point, mostly on fairly flatish water using the same 6.6m sizes and model sails.

The Futura is noticeable faster reaching and off the wind on flat water. A knot or two. No Doubt. Tried swapping sails boards and fins, and that is still the case.

Out of Gybes the Isonic is faster. Planes through better and accelerates quicker from low speed.

Up wind, the Isonic is usually quicker but not by much when both fully powered, more when a bit underpowered.

The Isonic is usually slightly quicker in open water waves and chop. Although the Futura is a bit easier to ride, the Isonic seems to skate over most chop and waves a little faster.

That said, the Futura is an exceptional Freerace board. Not sure if it would be the same comparison with a Falcon.

I noticed the same years ago with the Carve 99. It was seriously quick on really flat water off the wind when compared with dedicated slalom boards and my Isonic 87, which was better all round for everything else.

With both boards, the Futura and the Carve, I think it is because they have a narrower, pinny tail in comparison, and a hair more rocker in the back half. Both allow it to ride a bit higher on less wetted area when well powered up, but hurt it a bit in early planing and upwind.

Thats my experience, but remember it is mostly based to pretty flattish water conditions.

As it relates to the original question about ease of getting in the straps, the Isonic with the much wider tail and wider strap placement does require a more developed technique.

Phil, Futura's are better for jumping. Your old Futura easily has the altitude record at Sanctuary Point,think Gorge high jumps.I prefer Futura's to Isonics for their greater comfort ,forgivingness and versatility.I find the opposite to Sailquik re. chop ,maybe because I'm lighter or perhaps not found the ideal setting since I never seem to spent much time on them.
Have you had some good times on your new Carve?

Select to expand quote

sailquik said...

PhilSWR said..
Back on track a little (although temped to try the Durex booties), is there really much difference (speed-wise) between a board like a 93 litre Futura and a Dedicated slalom board like a Falcon or Isonic of simular volume? Are we just talking a few knots, or way faster?

Cheers for any info.

Here is where I can be very sure. My mate who is the same size as me has a Futura 111. I have an Isonic 111. We sail together a lot at Sandy Point, mostly on fairly flatish water using the same 6.6m sizes and model sails.

The Futura is noticeable faster reaching and off the wind on flat water. A knot or two. No Doubt. Tried swapping sails boards and fins, and that is still the case.

Out of Gybes the Isonic is faster. Planes through better and accelerates quicker from low speed.

Up wind, the Isonic is usually quicker but not by much when both fully powered, more when a bit underpowered.

The Isonic is usually slightly quicker in open water waves and chop. Although the Futura is a bit easier to ride, the Isonic seems to skate over most chop and waves a little faster.

That said, the Futura is an exceptional Freerace board. Not sure if it would be the same comparison with a Falcon.

I noticed the same years ago with the Carve 99. It was seriously quick on really flat water off the wind when compared with dedicated slalom boards and my Isonic 87, which was better all round for everything else.

With both boards, the Futura and the Carve, I think it is because they have a narrower, pinny tail in comparison, and a hair more rocker in the back half. Both allow it to ride a bit higher on less wetted area when well powered up, but hurt it a bit in early planing and upwind.

Thats my experience, but remember it is mostly based to pretty flattish water conditions.

As it relates to the original question about ease of getting in the straps, the Isonic with the much wider tail and wider strap placement does require a more developed technique.