I was reading Micah Buzanis tips for speed and he says it's a proven fact that an uphaul rope will create drag and slow you down. I hadn't heard this before but I guess it makes sense.

So who here sails without one, in the interest of more speed? I might try it, I can't remeber the last time I used an uphaul rope!

Micah's tips were here only a few days ago, I looked hard at my uphaul as I rigged up yesterday. Can't do any good. Can't remember when I last used it. Maybe we should just carry them in a back pocket.

I DID IT FOR A WHILE THEN HEADED OUT ON A LIGHT WIND DAY WITH MY 9M
DROPPED THE SAIL AND ....
SO GET YA SELF A BACK POCKET WERE DO YOU BUY THOSE FROM IAN
I DID GET UP EVENTUALLY BUT THAT MOMENT OF REALISATION WITH NOT A GREAT DEAL OF WIND .. NOT THE BEST ! LOL

If you have it tight enough, with an elastic rope attaching it to the base, then surely it sits so close to the mast that any extra drag is negligible.

If you were worried you could always make yourself a slimline one, i.e. without the cover, and see if that makes much difference to your speed. While you are at it you may as well shave your head or wear a cap

I would love to know where Micah's "proven fact" comes from. How would you even do the experiment short of a myth-busters type setup?

Ever since I got my first small board 100L JP freeride 268 about 7 years ago i haven't used one.

Coming from a Xantos 310 which I could uphaul on I haven't seen the point.

I don't have a board that will float me enough to uphaul on. I'm about 90kg and only have a 100L Freeride and 99L freestyle.

Plus you can waterstart in very light winds by getting your legs half over the board and holding onto the mast and clew of the sail .

My 100l JP is my "lightwind" board, can get going in about 14 knots with a 7.5 NCX and its only 55cm wide. I've done 30knots on it with a 5.8 wave sail so its a decent board.

Most of the year I find my uphaul rope more of a nuisance than a help. It often gets caught on the footstraps while waterstarting, but at this time of year when the wind is marginal it is sometimes required. I doubt I could uphaul a large sail without it. Maybe I should keep the uphaul rope attached for Autumn and ditch it the rest of the year.

I have often looked at windsurfers and how unaerodynamic our personal gear is comared to our board and rig. If you look at pro cyclists and swimmers every littlle bit of reduced drag helps. If we were serious about maximising speed bouyancy vests at least would have to go. Get rid of all those pockets and flaps. Out with beards and stubble, strap the gps somewhere other than on the leading edge.

Probably best to do some testing to measure how much drag an uphaul rope or any other piece of equipment and person causes.

One way to test would be to measure with a GPS the speed of someone sailing with an uphaul rope vs without an uphaul rope.

Great sailors like Robbie Naish often used uphaul ropes and uphauled in big surf as sometimes uphauling is the quickest way to get going or can be used get the sail quickly into the right waterstarting position.

I can't imagine it would make a measurable difference, like a consistent 1 or 2 knots more without the rope but without testing, who knows?

Someone must have a wind tunnel where we can test the drag coeficient of wet uphaul rope!

I haven't used one in about 10 years. I have been stuck before and had to lift the mast by hand, bloody hard work with a 8.5.
now days I carry some rope in my vest just in case.

It would be more effective for me to lose a bit more waistline

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Windxtasy said...

Most of the year I find my uphaul rope more of a nuisance than a help. It often gets caught on the footstraps while waterstarting, but at this time of year when the wind is marginal it is sometimes required. I doubt I could uphaul a large sail without it. Maybe I should keep the uphaul rope attached for Autumn and ditch it the rest of the year.

I have often looked at windsurfers and how unaerodynamic our personal gear is comared to our board and rig. If you look at pro cyclists and swimmers every littlle bit of reduced drag helps. If we were serious about maximising speed bouyancy vests at least would have to go. Get rid of all those pockets and flaps. Out with beards and stubble, strap the gps somewhere other than on the leading edge.

I think a few people have tried this (reducing drag) and found it doesn't make much difference. I suspect that it doesn't make much difference as you are not going directly into the wind, and in a lot of cases you are going with the wind.

As for ditching your uphaul rope, I prefer to think that if I need it it is there. You never know if you need it to tow someone or even uphaul a sail.

For those of us with not so consistent winds, it is a good idea.

I remember one day's sailing where I had enough wind to waterstart very carefully, but once on the board I would wobble around with the board under the water. Sure I didn't need the uphaul, but it made the slow progress back to shore so much easier.

I always use uphaul rope and a front boom pad on my speed sails the NP T shaped one that also goes on the mast below the boom as well, had a bloke tell me that I need to take it all off as would be crap for top speed as the flow over the sail would be sh!t, I had a top of 40 for the day and he had 38 so it dosen't really matter too much, I would rather have the pad and save a broken nose on the board.

One would think that an Uphaul rope laying across the leading edge of the sail must upset the laminar flow of air over this vital part of the sail, thats if the flow is laminar! Not sure if it makes a discernible difference in practice though?

I never use an uphaul rope on a sinker or with a sail smaller than 5.8m anyhow so certainly don't use it when speedsailing. I do use one when slalom racing for the possibility of a quick recovery if I drop the rig but even if it slows me down a fraction I don't think it matters much as I am not that fast on a slalom board with big sails anyhow and need to make it up in the starts and gybing!

I only use an uphaul on my biggest board and biggest sail

As far as the drag goes, there are many areas of inefficiency with windsurfing that affect speed, the biggest one is technique.

If you can honestly measure your speed and say you are going faster just because you took your uphaul off and not because you had more wind, smoother water, your fin was perfect, your board bottom was perfect, your sail was rigged and trimmed properly, your harness straps were not flapping around, your hair was perfect etc,etc then go for it.

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sailquik said...

One would think that an Uphaul rope laying across the leading edge of the sail must upset the laminar flow of air over this vital part of the sail, thats if the flow is laminar! Not sure if it makes a discernible difference in practice though?

I never use an uphaul rope on a sinker or with a sail smaller than 5.8m anyhow so certainly don't use it when speedsailing. I do use one when slalom racing for the possibility of a quick recovery if I drop the rig but even if it slows me down a fraction I don't think it matters much as I am not that fast on a slalom board with big sails anyhow and need to make it up in the starts and gybing!

True but provided the uphaul doesnt move much couldn't it trip the flow & help it stay attached.

I always use on my big sails, dont think it makes much difference.

That said Micah's career is focused on how to get any small advantage over the next guy & has most likely tested & tested & tested.

Quote from Micah's article

"Away with the uphaul. It's been tested time and time again - the uphaul creates drag. Lose the uphaul and you will go faster."

I did notice that in the photos of PWA races in the article, none of the sailors has uphauls.

On doggy days on my sails under 8.6m I will leave my upaul attached to the boom and put it inside the luff sleeve, just in case the wind turns to crap.

Haven,t used an uphaul for a very long time, no point as none of my boards will float with me on them.

With speed sailing you are so far off the wind that there is very little drag from anything except the sail. A few tried aero suits to reduce drag but they made no difference, same for assay booms. Use a smaller sail if you want to cut down the drag, worked for Mal every time. He always went faster than me using a size smaller and 15kg heaver. Not having a mast sticking out the top of the sail helps too.

Sailing upwind or very square might be different tho