Wondering if anyone has experimented with comparing speed of a weedfin and upright of similar sizes and running the same board sail in a non weed area to compare.
The general talk for years has been aw the weed fins are a couple of knots slower.
At the moment sailing at Geelong area Pt Henry and Lake Conneware using weed fins 90% of the time due to weed and only using uprights at sandy Pt a couple of times a year, how would the weed fins compare to uprights for example at Sandy Pt. Maybe the Geelong boys might be better off just purchasing a good quiver of weedfins.
Any advice/comments/experiences

Not sure about true weed fins but many of the fastest speed fins at the moment are quite raked. Eg: Most of the Lockwood speed fins have up to 30 deg rake!
There seem to be advantages in the mid 40's up to have quite a bit of rake on the fins. For slalom speeds square to the wind, upright fins seem to have it though.

Personally I reckon for outright speed Pointers are definitely slower by a good 4+knots.

To quantify,
Firstly I sail with weedies more often than not so I know how they work, pointers to me are great for going up wind and getting lift for going over chop to make the ride a bit smoother.

The way I sail (my technique) I absolutely detest Techtonic Falcons amd Chooko Mch 1's, continually cavitating them, can't throw the things far enough away, can't even take a hacksaw to them as they make a crap weed fin as well! had my most success with standard JP slalom fins. Like I said it's the way I sail not the fins.

Admittedly I've only used small pointers a couple of times on true speed days cause we sail in a weedy area, most of the time it's on 30cm+.

When ever I use these pointers (normally on 100L board) and there's a bit puff around to give it a squirt the pointer will hit the wall where it's generating to much lift to control the board, whereas the weedy the lift comes on slowly.

For me when the win comes on and the pointer starts struggling then the weedy goes on and there's an instant improvement.

I will admit that IF I persevered more with the pointers, I could get more out of them but I still think the weedy will be as quick if not quicker (for me).

The weedies I use are predominantly bog standard JP Freeride weeds
36cm is good for 35+Knots (on 100L board)
31cm 37knots (on 100L board)
28cm Chopbuster (JP Supersport fin Elmo'd & re-boxed) consistent 38's
23cm Elmo(Re-boxed JP Slalom) 40knots

Apart from taking a hacksaw to pointers to make speed weedies, the best thing I've found to do with a pointer is to once again introduce it to Mr Hacksaw and re-box it with and extra 10º rake (22º LE)
I have done this twice and in both occasions it has resulted minimum 3 knots instantaneous improvement on both attempts. That said you will sacrifice a small portion of up wind ability.

The main reason why I believe this works is because the lift comes on so much more smoothly than a standard upright fin.

One thing I've found though is for dead smooth water, weed fins suck (the board onto the water).
We normally sail in chop Knee - waist down to around 3"(what we normally call flat on a V-Very good day). sailing in this type of chop allows for air to get under the board and free it up.

Glassy places like Sandy point and (sh1t holes like) Cheese-graters are that smooth that the boards stick to the water more because the air is not getting introduced as much under it from the chop, this is where you need a more upright fin to free up the board.

Thanks Daffy/Elmo for the details/ information, and to think how long i put off purchasing my 1st weedy. i'm with you the performance handling is not that much different they still go up wind o.k. ,most don't spin out any worse than pointers and the other advantage is if you hit an object you are less likely to be catapulted or rip the fin or arse out of your board. The sizing does seem to take a bit more working out thou.
Elmo what size sails are you using with for the speed/vs fin size mentioned above.

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dkeating said...

I have only been sailing for three years, but from the onset I have sailed in weedy spots and HATED the experience another disappointing and FRUSTRATING aspect as well as a lac of wind in NSW.. so I thought...

I then needed a fin to run port tack for my speed board with no money and a few old fins i decided to have a go making one.. this fin did 37+

from this... back to weedy's i decided to look into it further and there were all these sailors "good sailors " saying crazy things like "I only sail weed fins and even if I'm not in a weedy spot i put it on !!'' I used to LOLOLOL

I'm one of those people now !!!... my two latest weed fins crank up wind like no other upright on my SP44 and down wind they seem to fly too and solid.
*i sail in semi choppy conditions*

the other day i got my PB NM 31.16 and a 37.97 2sec second fastest time, on my weedy and all i need is more wind and I would love to Crack 40 in nsw "too easy at places like sandi point " we have to work for it .... and thats good.. sometimes

I have trust that they will.

I made a second one the day before yesterday and ran 4x 34kn runs in marginal winds it does need a bit of refining but its 19cm fast off the breeze and cranks up wind needs a bit more profile ..maybe

SECOND MOREL ... a fin for me needs to be solid and give me lift stability trust once there in place u can concentrate on going fast im no big shot "FAR FROM IT" but loving the ability to experiment with design. "plenty of time for that in NSW!"
Like Elmo I dont belive all other fins are crap ... but I know what I like and how I sail, this is more inportant to me, all this has come from the wealth of nonage out there from all the guru's that partake in enlightening people with there wisdom experience on the forum. THANKS TO ALL !

POINT OF STORY... I LOVE MY WEEDYS there better and faster * for me

thanks Elmo for your insights I like your theory s on lift and weedy's maybe thats why i like them so much they give u time to get settled and u can turn them on wen u want not have them go .. not run away with you holding on to the neck ?

We're having this debate at the moment sailing at Inverloch.

Between club members we've purchased different brands of weed fins and to compare the differance.

The main reason we've purchased is not for weeds, but the everchanging sandbars!

Some of the brands I've seen have a 'fat' leading edge to generate lift, where others have a very thin profile.

It's going to be interesting at the speed invertational to see what people use!

I have had a F2 missile since January that came with a 24 techtonics F1 falcon in it, done 40 knots the first time I used it but by Feburary there was too much weed at ny local to use it, was a pain in the ar$e catching weed, I got a 24 choco weedspeed and had no trouble with weed again, done a 39.78 this week on the weedy and it is easily just as fast goes well on all points of the wind and dosen't spin out.
do a search as in a previous post I put up some pics of the 2 fins as they are near identical exept for the rake,
found it here
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/Fastest-Weedfin/

I also use the JP weedies in my freeride board and they are exellent.

as a general rule i would say pointers are faster in lighter/medium winds.

if you are light,you are likely to have more problems trimming the board in strong winds with a pointer.

this is when a small weed fin can be faster.

at the Lancelin marathon many of the top guys use a pointer, even thou there is so much weed. please explain.

as for the techtonics falcon fin,i have always hated them. i end up downwind,struggle to get going and no faster at topend.

however in a board that does not behave itself,such as my small Anders Brindall slalom board,the very soft mashy design of the techtronics can give the board added control and smoothness similiar to the small weed fin that i use on this board.

when i use pointer fins i always go way smaller than recommended,for added smoothness and control in gusts.

i use a 28cm carbon lockwood fin in my Kinetic 95 litre,it goes sideways a bit,so i over came this problem by only using small sails 5m + 5.6m on it.

I mainly use pointers and prefer them. On Saturday I used my weedfin as I was sailing in a very weedy lake. The wind was fairly marginal and the weedfin really felt like it was slowing me down.

The water was very flat and the board felt tail heavy. It never really got unstuck from the water.

I've used the same weedfin in stronger winds and it felt better. So for me in marginal winds a weedfin definitely is not as good as a pointer.

^^^ i found weed fins alot better when fully powered up, say i use a 7.8 with a 111l board with a 40cm choco weed fin i can still sail it in very powered up conditions and acheive peak speeds of 35+ knots, where as when its marginal or gusty the pointer has so much more power to get you on the plane, i find the weed fins start to depower like a my sail does when its overloaded which is great cause im able to stay out on the same equipment,

down side is bit slower to the plane, not as fast upwind or right off the wind.. thats what ive found with my equipment....

just come down to mandurah or safetybay, and we can put that to the test [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

i surprized myself with 40 knot peak last friday with a 30cm weed fin. quite a big for fin for that speed IMO. its a 45deg. FO weedy the board was an 85 fanatic falcon 2011. could go a fair bit smaller than 30 i reckon in that board but maybe not as low as my 23cm KA/CL. i think i want to get a slingshot 25 or maybe a delta 25...

I've considered trying a weedy buy I guess I hav'nt coz I never know what size to get and can't be stuffed making one and there are limited shops that seem to sell them

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Haggar said...

I've considered trying a weedy buy I guess I hav'nt coz I never know what size to get and can't be stuffed making one and there are limited shops that seem to sell them

not here in wa big market here but using weedies can suck especially weed waves, cause they make them too stiff which means turning is a lot wider

Very few sailors seem to use weedfins in QLD, I guess we dont have weed that often

I'm thinking about getting a weedy, however how do you relate the size? ie does a 36cm pointy = 36cm weedy?


KJ

I think the answer is maybe.

If it's the same foil, just racked back it will be less powerful, for a couple of reasons.

The chord to thickness ratio will have decreased bt about 20%
And any flex in the fin will give t negative lift.

If you are comparing a very stiff weedy with the same chord to thickness ratio, t may have more lift for it's length because it's probably got more area.

As the man said, foils ain't foils.