Just following on from a previous topic, where 8 year old (26kg) AUS2001 is about to start using a GPS and I was wondering how fast he will be able to go. What speed is possible for such a light-weight sailor?

Sailquik from Victoria said:

"On a really good speed strip like Sandy Point I recon you might give 30 knots a good nudge on a good day judging from you sailing skills in the pictures.

20 knots would be pretty respectable on less ideal water.

Good luck and let us know how you go."

It would be amazing if he could come anywhere near 30 knots! 25 years ago, a giant man (Fred Haywood) broke the 30 knot barrier. How far has windsurfing come if an 8 year old could equal this in 2010? I'd love to find out and if you reckon Sandy Point is where we need to go, why not?

The only trouble is, I am mainly into freestyle and don't know enough about going fast. I know enough to understand that there is a whole science that goes with it and so I think Alex needs some guidance to have a hope. We have good equipment (especially rigs), though I am wondering if a 30 litre Carbon Art might be the way to go.

Would anyone be interested in helping with this challenging endeavour? I need to know about whether to add some weight, change fins, tips with stance and what preparation he might need before going to Sandy Point. Also, he doesn't need much wind but when is the best time to take him? I'd love to hear from any one that has good ideas. It would be so cool to set another Australian record! Or just find out where the limit is. And, if he can't do it now, we can get him started and perhaps he can manage it before he's 10... We'll never know if we don't try!

KA360,

I am just new to the GPS thing this season. I am not really a freestyler, but more of a B&J sailer before (and still). I use a JP freestyle-wave board, and none of my sails have cams, so I do not expect to break an records. I recently got to just under 31knots, but it took a bit of mucking around with setup and technique to do so I thought I would just post my observations as a relative newbie seeing as though you look to be in a similar situation:

* To go faster than 30 knots I had to change my setup quite a bit... longer harness lines, higher boom, mast base further back. This actually made sailing in almost all other conditions quite uncomfortable and tiring, but works and feels great when bearing off the wind in a big gust. Going upwind is much more of a chore, and getting comfortable when not fully powered on a reach is not great either. I suspect this is also partly because I am using a board not well suited.

* Flat water makes a huge difference. I was struggling to crack 30 in the middle of botany bay in strong winds. I was struggling for control and could not keep the throttle all the way down in the sharp disorganised chop in this area. Then one day I headed right upwind to the area protected from the chop, and I promptly went faster than I ever had been while feeling like I was underpowered and going slow. I am now looking forward to really strong days so I can over rig myself, and push myself until I think I am on the limit in the flatter water.

* You need heaps of wind to go real quick. I find that when everything is working, when I bear off the amount needed to go fast, the apparent wind changes so much that you feel underpowered in conditions that would normally have you overpowered if you were pointing upwind or reaching. I am now waiting for those 30 knot days to go out with a 6.2!! Getting up wind to the flatwater overpowered could be a problem though!!

* Don't get too obsessed with speed. It is fun, but not as fun as your freestyle or B&J that I enjoy. You don't want to change your mind frame from being ecstatic about 13-18 knots to being dissappointed because you can't go faster than your PB. I just go for speed when the conditions suit, and otherwise I still strap on the GPS to see how far I sailed in a more cruisey session.

They are just my observations as a newbie to speed sailing, but oldie to sailing. There are far more experienced than me who can offer much more sound advice on setup and technique. Not sure how much of this applies to a 26kg sailer!!

Cheers,

Adrian

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KA360 said...



The only trouble is, I am mainly into freestyle and don't know enough about going fast. I know enough to understand that there is a whole science that goes with it

arky i think your telling porky's ive seen you do 30+ on your first speed run i don't think alex would need a speed board to go 30knts , ive seen him out there planeing in 8knts and everyone elese is packing up, if he had a small slalom with a nice narrow pin tail and a 3mt sail like the KA concept , and take him to sandringham speed strip in about a 15 to 18knt sw?, ive never sailed there but they have had guys doing 40+ and i think it works in a sw

Thanks for all those tips Vosadrian! The GPS thing is really fun and a bit additictive. I'm not taking it all that seriously but I think it's something everyone should have a go at because it can't but improve all round technique. Experience is one of the greatest tools in windsurfing (and that goes for all disciplines and techniques in all conditions).

I'm also just really curious about what Alex can achieve because, being so light, it should be a different experience for him than it is for an adult. Even if he can't set a super high benchmark, it's probably still a record for his age anyway, and one that might give others and himself something to challenge. So more fun for everyone!

Keef, that attempt was one of my first two goes with a GPS (the other was without footstraps, clocking 28knts ). I was stoked to get past 30 that day I used your gear but I feel like it was because the finely tuned gear you lent me was well trained and knew how to do it by itself! Sandringham sounds like it's definitely worth a go - thanks!

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KA360 said...

(the other was without footstraps, clocking 28knts ).

28 knts without footstrapps that would have been scary arky have a chat to james at CA, there was a post where a heavyer guy had a slalom custom made, so maybe you could get a CAspeed resized for alex, the good part is (you can tell them exactly where you want the strapps and mast foot) and here's another thought download a gps challenge registration form and the both of you guys can sign up for the double demerits that could be another first for alex, imagine how many klms he could have by the time hes my age

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keef said...
. . . and the both of you guys can sign up for the double demerits . . .

Order!!! ACT Gustbusters, pleeease!

Got to set your goals high!
Speed needs at least four things:
1. Opportunity. Very important. If you don't have the right wind in the best venue you can't go as fast. Got to be in the right place at the right time
2. Experience. Skill comes from experience. Feel for the activity comes from experience. Making the best decisions at the right time to maximize results is helped by experience. Being comfortable to extend your limits comes from experience. The benefits of experience are not necessarily proportional to time.
3. Equipment. This has to work with you and complement your efforts.
4. Desire. You got to want it!

Thanks Sailquick!

I appreciate you sharing your wisdom! I guess with Alex, "experience" will always be an issue - he has only been windsurfing for 18 months. He started windsurfing at 7 and his progress has been phenomenal - he was planning, in the harness and straps within 3 months and waterstarted, jumped and carve-gybed before his 8th birthday. He loves to windsurf and has done a lot of miles in varied conditions and locations and can handle any wind strength (he has been in winds of up to 35 knots and is not put off), but I guess waterstate is the main issue to his limit.

He loves the idea of having a go at speed sailing. He hasn't done any sailing that deep off the wind. I am just wondering how to prepare him for it though. Do you think there is any "training" that he could do? I thought just launch him far upwind so that he has to get to the beach downwind in as few runs as possible (and go with him so that he will try to follow my line).

Equipment: We have been using Severne kids sails and they rig on a 300 mast with a short boom which may not be ideal for speed but he is very much at one with them. Any adult's rig would be out of the question. I'm thinking of using his new Naish rippers on a 340 mast with a longer boom. They should be better for this job. The main question will be about his board. I don't know how small to go and what size fin to use. We have an S type 70 litre which is probably the fastest board but I think will be way too big in strong wind. I think he's faster on the 48 litre Acid because it's more appropriate for his size (but it's still a complete floater and a wave board). I recently saw an Isonic 50 that I thought might be good. Does anyone know of any extra small (less than 50 litre) speed boards around?

Any way, what I intend to do first is just take him out on the lake with the GPs and clock some average sailing speeds as a benchmark and to get an idea of where we are. We haven't had any wind in the last fortnight so it may be a while till the first opportunity arises. I'll keep you posted...

By the way, is Sandy Point likely to have favourable conditions in the next two months (before it gets too cold as he's just a skinny little kid and has no fat to keep him warm)? School holidays are coming up so we could go down then.

As I said, 'experience' is not directly related to time. Some gain the skills and wisdom of experience very quickly.

Those Severne kids sails are ideal.

I think on the Sandy course the Acid would be the best to try first. (I have gone 40kts on my acid 74). On flat water at speed they can get right up on the small pin tail and have a similar wetted profile to a speed board. The pro kids have the deck set up better for smaller kids as well.

I have a Pro Kids Sonic he is most welcome to try down here.

Most adult speed boards, even the smallest like a CA40 or F2 XS, will have the foot straps too wide apart and mast track too far forward. There are ways around that though....
like this: http://www.mtbest.net/isonic50.html

Thanks! That's very much appreciated!

Will we be likely to get "kiddies" speed sailing weather this time of year? Is the wind coming from the right direction? On average how many times a week would it get above 18-20 knots?

The thing with Sandy Pt is that you can get great conditions almost any time of the year. It is most consistent from September to February. This time of the year can deliver big time but you can also get weeks of nothing. Looks pretty good for easterlies over the next week of Easter though! :-) At least a couple of days of 18-20 knots and probably more.

www.windfinder.com/forecast/wilsons_promontory?utm_source=www.windfinder.com&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=redirect

We recorded our first results yesterday, sailing on the lake in pretty low wind. We sailed for about half an hour and only caught a couple of gusts so only planed for about 5 minutes. But, Alex recorded a 2 second peak of 15.96 knots and a 5x10 average of 10.84. It was a good test to make sure everything is up and running. Alex is now ranked 379th for 2010 in the GPSTC ahead of me by 2 positions! Today might be windier so we'll have another go then...

Had a few runs today but Alex didn't feel like sailing because he had to put on a wet wetsuit he left lying in the back of the car since yesterday's sail. We had to have a go because there was some wind today though gusty and he achieved an 18.43 2 second peak and 5x10 average of 14.85. I hit a 27.84 2 second peak and 22.81 5x10 average. We were only on the water for about 10 minutes but at least things are improving...

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KA360 said...

Alex didn't feel like sailing because he had to put on a wet wetsuit he left lying in the back of the car since yesterday's sail.

Alex!!

Where's the world champion attitude?

To be fair, I didn't feel like sailing today cos my wetsuit was still wet from good friday (and it was gusting 51 knots), but I've got less potential than Alex....

35 knots easy at sandy point this kid will be able to do if he gets the pit bug sailquik is a little man that lives at the pit and he is the fastest dude I think.. some call him the stig..

Keep posting the updates! Have you figured out if there is a world record set for a 26kg kid like alex? Maybe you guys stand a chance to beat it ?? How cool would that be !

I also just bought a GT31. First few times with the GPS out at Narrabeen...2 second's at 16 kts, then 18kts with footstraps in the beginner position, then today 20kts with footstraps in the correct position. Next goal 25 knts.

Its good having something measurable to see progress...i'd thought i was getting a bit quicker each time, but now i can see that definitely is the case.

Funny to think 20 knts is 2/3rd of the world record speed from 25 years ago...now if only I'd started windsurfing 25 years ago

Good to see the posts on the GPS Challenge site.

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zippyblue said...

Have you figured out if there is a world record set for a 26kg kid like alex? Maybe you guys stand a chance to beat it ?? How cool would that be !

To be honest, I don't think any 8 year olds have been measured. There probably aren't that many that plane. I have only come across a figure of around 16 knots achieved by Bernd Roediger when he was 10 and those on the GPS team challenge but I don't think any of the kids there are as young as Alex.

Does anyone know? Maybe he already holds the record for his age. Or the record of the youngest person ever to crack the 18 knot barrier !