We got sidetracked into discussion about high speed crashes on another thread and rather than hijack that one I thought it might be a good idea to start another one for this topic.

It is hard to say what caused the crashes on the canal MOS video but from the sudden way they precipitated I suspect they may have hit the bottom with the fin as well.

Part of the problem with this type of fall is that when the fin hits the bottom it simply loads up the harness even more and there is no way to take pressure off to unhook (as far as I have found anyhow). It sort of happens in slow motion in your mind at the time and you know you are gone but there seems to be nothing you can do to prevent a sticky ending.
My strategy for these is to ride the boom out. I simply hang on and go around the front which leads to me landing on my back in front of the sail rather than crashing through the gear. The damage is all done when the luff digs into the water on landing causing the sail to come to a sudden stop. That is when the boom breaks as my body continues on with great momentum but the harness and lines try to prevent it.
I have found by bitter experience that if I try to let go of the boom and get away from the rig it does not work because the harness stays attached and I simply end up crashing into the sail or other parts of the rig.
In the past I have actually broken the hook on my harness, or the buckles on my harness have smashed or ripped off or even ripped the harness lines apart, but lately it seems those things are surviving and it's the boom itself that breaks.

One idea I had was a 'dead mans handle' in the boom which works this way: While you are sailing your back hand is holding the handle clamped to the boom. If you let go the harness line releases. The problem with this is making it so the thing stays put when you are maneuvering etc. I thought of having a rubber band around it so that it stays put under no, or very low load but will easily pull out in a crash when you let go of it. The ideal time to let go would probably be the moment you feel the fin touch

I started breaking a few booms, and quite by mistake when looking for a cheap adjustable harness line I found the Pryde vario. I don't know if pryde intended it, or its just the usual build quality- but if I have a good crash the line breaks. To date since using them i've been through 3 lines and only 1 questionable quality boom.

The downside is the buckle is sh!t and hard to let out when moving.

Further on from what Nebbian said before, why wouldn't it be possible to have a harness line system similar to the prolimt harness quick release which is engaged when pulling down on the line but as soon as you pull up it releases. If not surely someone could engineer some sort of load release buckle.

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sailquik said...

My strategy for these is to ride the boom out. I simply hang on and go around the front which leads to me landing on my back in front of the sail rather than crashing through the gear.

i do the same when catapulting, not that i'm goin as fast as you sailquik but i definately hang on ang go with the flow. seems to work every time, it is a technique i developed while practicing botching jumps.

only prob is the whiplash! that hurts a little as my head whiplashes as it hit the water.

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Gestalt said...



only prob is the whiplash! that hurts a little as my head whiplashes as it hit the water.

Yep. That whiplash can be a right pain in the neck!

interesting thing about whip lash is that you hear it as well as feel it

I think Bender could have used some new device today at Hardies he had a shocker of a get off. He is still walking and talking.
Elmo came to his aid real fast and description was, he (Bender) didn't look real flash for a few minutes
Best thing was his NAVi recorded 61+ knots at the prang

I've used the sail, mast, boom, 5 battens, and finally water to slow me down. Quite an expensive one-shot braking system.

I would say the boys on the canal crashed because the wind was so broad and strong the rolling chop became quite tricky for them given the style of equipment they were riding. One bad bounce and the windward rail kicks out of the water-> instant fin ventilation -> rail grab. I've done that before at 42kts, and it happens SO fast you dont even get to think "oh SH!T" before you are already swimming through carbon bits.

High speed spinouts are scary in close-spaced downwind following chop. I've had a few of those at 46-47kts and it really wakes you up (and makes you appreciate a board design that provide some safety margin for this kind of thing). I havent had a bad wipout since I got the CA speed boards 2 years ago. Touch wood!

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slowboat said...

I've used the sail, mast, boom, 5 battens, and finally water to slow me down. Quite an expensive one-shot braking system.

I would say the boys on the canal crashed because the wind was so broad and strong the rolling chop became quite tricky for them given the style of equipment they were riding. One bad bounce and the windward rail kicks out of the water-> instant fin ventilation -> rail grab. I've done that before at 42kts, and it happens SO fast you dont even get to think "oh SH!T" before you are already swimming through carbon bits.

High speed spinouts are scary in close-spaced downwind following chop. I've had a few of those at 46-47kts and it really wakes you up (and makes you appreciate a board design that provide some safety margin for this kind of thing). I havent had a bad wipout since I got the CA speed boards 2 years ago. Touch wood!

interesting statement in that last sentence Chris, i too believe i havent had a stack on either of my ca's yet,(other the normal gybe crashes)mind you i dont push it like you......i have had several on the isonic and the previous missile and naish hybrid....

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snides8 said...

slowboat said...

I've used the sail, mast, boom, 5 battens, and finally water to slow me down. Quite an expensive one-shot braking system.

I would say the boys on the canal crashed because the wind was so broad and strong the rolling chop became quite tricky for them given the style of equipment they were riding. One bad bounce and the windward rail kicks out of the water-> instant fin ventilation -> rail grab. I've done that before at 42kts, and it happens SO fast you dont even get to think "oh SH!T" before you are already swimming through carbon bits.

High speed spinouts are scary in close-spaced downwind following chop. I've had a few of those at 46-47kts and it really wakes you up (and makes you appreciate a board design that provide some safety margin for this kind of thing). I havent had a bad wipout since I got the CA speed boards 2 years ago. Touch wood!

interesting statement in that last sentence Chris, i too believe i havent had a stack on either of my ca's yet,(other the normal gybe crashes)mind you i dont push it like you......i have had several on the isonic and the previous missile and naish hybrid....

You do know what is now going to happen don't you

and......loving it!

So what are the features to look for in a board resistant to catching a leeward rail? Is it more than just soft rails? I'd heard v helps but my Sonic, which has the bottom filled to a huge amount of v, has still caught me out twice. The hybrid which feels scary because it's so short has never thrown me off. I think the trapezoid shape of both the hybrid and the CA50 helps because with a blunt nose a random piece of chop caught just forward of middle is less likely to cause a deflection and add to a spinout problem . I'll put the one big expensive crash on the CA50 down to seaweed.

But Sailquick has the best crash I've seen. He was going very fast on a very broad starboard tack 50 metres ahead so I was keeping a good eye on him. He went off like a giant rat trap. I still have the mental image of him half way round, fully inverted, lilly white feet to the sky, toes pointed (centifugal force, or maybe a balletic background?). He got up quickly - ankle deep water - that wasn't a rail catch, we're off topic.

Getting back to your original post of a momumental stack over the front Daffy, have you or anybody else tried letting go of the front hand and still hanging on with the back hand ? Someone has told me that this should cause the rig to fall away from you ?? Rather not try this without some actual examples of it working ..... With my stack last year that broke my poor little neck, I was hooked on and holding on to the boom and instead of going around the front or hitting the water, hit the sail at right angles with bone crushing results

Off topic abit but i've had more "low speed crashes" than high speed ones.
The ones i'm talking about is when you first take off hook on and just before you get the back foot into the straps the wind dies slightly the board sinks slightly and i'm flyin(in slow motion) around the front.
The only high speed crashes i have had recently is when i'm hooked in at speed and a gust picks up the board and dumps me onto my back.....they hurt!

I've been riding with my harness hook up the "wrong" way my whole life. There's probably no reason for this besides being used to it.

I find that I avoid alot of bad stacks... or maybe I'm just imagining it. l put it down to the fact that I can react quicky and dis-engage the hook by taking the sail load with my arms for a split second as I dip my body downward. In my mind this seems easier than pulling the boom down or body up to get out given a hook-down setup.

So that works pretty good for hitting a fin on the bottom or a drawn-out spin out episode. Proabaly no-hope for a sudden gust or caught leeward rail.

Lately I've been thinking about the consequences of my hook setup though... I'm worried that If I go over the handlebars on a speed run, my hook has less chance of disengaging in the air. Hence I end up head first into the mast, still attached to the harness lines. Could be deadly.

Any thoughts?

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Ian K said...

He went off like a giant rat trap.

He he ... That's the best term for a catapult I yet heard.

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Ian K said...


But Sailquick has the best crash I've seen. He was going very fast on a very broad starboard tack 50 metres ahead so I was keeping a good eye on him. He went off like a giant rat trap. I still have the mental image of him half way round, fully inverted, lilly white feet to the sky, toes pointed (centifugal force, or maybe a balletic background?). He got up quickly - ankle deep water - that wasn't a rail catch, we're off topic.

Ouch! I can still feel that one just thinking about it!

And 'I' was the rat in the trap

That was the first boom in October (it ended up in 4 pieces) and that one was so violent I also ripped my harness apart.

The Lilly-white feet view was because my booties were still stuck in the foot-straps!! I was ripped clean out of them!

And that one was 'only' at 38 knots!

The second one was at 41 knots and that time the harness held together but it did take me a few moments to get orientated again.

This latest was a bit milder in comparison at 'only' 30 knots on a beam reach going for a good Alpha but still made a two piece boom.

Haggar: I have not tried that tactic but it sounds interesting. If the sail turns far enough it may not catch the water with so much finality. Maybe, if it ever happens to me again (and I am definitely planning for it to never happen again ) I will try to remember to at least sheet in with the back arm to try to land me and the rig completely upside down.

TOUCH WOOD...
Thinking of a couple of the nastier hi speed get-offs I've seen at the Pit:
Daffy Biting Lee Rail upwind on chop,ducking under boom and going through window
Slowy biting lee rail at stupid speed and again going under boom,also going through sail window.
To me these sort of get offs happen in half a second and you could have the boom in the place of your front teeth in about .2 of a second!
The other way where you get to get slung over the top and you can back hand the boom to catch wind and slow you down before big rolling splashing horsey bomb[}:)].. is often fun As

Spot on Shelbs. The catch the rail and crash through the sail/rig are definitely my worst fear crash. I have to admit that as soon as I see that one even becoming a possibility I am prone to instant bail out. I have had very bad experiences after trying to ride it out and recover, especially the upwind ones.

hey Shelby, hows the new red peril? Must be no wind cos too many of us took delivery of new CA speed boards in the last few weeks.

Yeah that must have been the 42.9kt dismount on my old crusty 44cm board that once was a 55cm slalom board (and then a 49cm speed board, and then a 44cm speed board). It had basically no V and block rails. Suicide machine with a 20cm suicide fin that let go on me every 2nd run. aaaah those were the days...

The 5 worst (most painful) crashes I've done were all between 37 and 38 knots. The damage list from those crashes (apart from being totally winded each time) were several booms, 2 masts, and a couple of harnesses. Guess I was lucky not to include teeth and bones. One of them was so violent the pin got ripped out of the mast base about when the mast and boom snapped. Another one I found my harness bar sitting on the sail with a few broken battens. Both sides of webbing on the harness snapped near the buckles. Another one had the boom in 4 pieces, some floating away (umm can I have a warranty please, I was just sailing along, honest ). The price of speed sailing in crappy conditions...

I'm still caressing her gently every night and dreaming of us (me and red peril) riding a big southerly buster rolling up from the Ant Arctic.
Thanks Chris.

Recently clipped the bottom and got catapulted at around 30knots (at Burrum speed comp) and quoting sailquick "It sort of happens in slow motion in your mind at the time and you know you are gone but there seems to be nothing you can do to prevent a sticky ending"

The boom head was torn off the mast where the hinged flaps wrap around the mast - the pin sheared through the knuckles of the hinge. Apart from the above and a small tear in upper half of sail I was surprised no other damage was done and I am wondering if this failure at the hinge joint actually absorbed alot of the force thereby reducing damage. Does anyone have an opinion on incorporating (inexpensive) breaking points into certain components / gear. Has anyone else had this happen.

BTW the boom was a Autima carbon and I too held onto boom going over the handle bars.

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slowboat said...

hey Shelby, hows the new red peril? Must be no wind cos too many of us took delivery of new CA speed boards in the last few weeks.

Yeah that must have been the 42.9kt dismount on my old crusty 44cm board that once was a 55cm slalom board (and then a 49cm speed board, and then a 44cm speed board). It had basically no V and block rails. Suicide machine with a 20cm suicide fin that let go on me every 2nd run. aaaah those were the days...

The 5 worst (most painful) crashes I've done were all between 37 and 38 knots. The damage list from those crashes (apart from being totally winded each time) were several booms, 2 masts, and a couple of harnesses. Guess I was lucky not to include teeth and bones. One of them was so violent the pin got ripped out of the mast base about when the mast and boom snapped. Another one I found my harness bar sitting on the sail with a few broken battens. Both sides of webbing on the harness snapped near the buckles. Another one had the boom in 4 pieces, some floating away (umm can I have a warranty please, I was just sailing along, honest ). The price of speed sailing in crappy conditions...

OK, you definitely win!!!

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sausage said...

Recently clipped the bottom and got catapulted at around 30knots (at Burrum speed comp) and quoting sailquick "It sort of happens in slow motion in your mind at the time and you know you are gone but there seems to be nothing you can do to prevent a sticky ending"

The boom head was torn off the mast where the hinged flaps wrap around the mast - the pin sheared through the knuckles of the hinge. Apart from the above and a small tear in upper half of sail I was surprised no other damage was done and I am wondering if this failure at the hinge joint actually absorbed alot of the force thereby reducing damage. Does anyone have an opinion on incorporating (inexpensive) breaking points into certain components / gear. Has anyone else had this happen.

BTW the boom was a Autima carbon and I too held onto boom going over the handle bars.

i saw the crash you had sausage. it was very very full on. lucky one of the guys sailed over to you or i would have been straight in the boat to investigate.

i saw the water spout in the air on impact from about 1km away. it was a very very big spray. i grabbed the binoculars to have a look because of that.

it was big

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sausage said...

Recently clipped the bottom and got catapulted at around 30knots (at Burrum speed comp) and quoting sailquick "It sort of happens in slow motion in your mind at the time and you know you are gone but there seems to be nothing you can do to prevent a sticky ending"

The boom head was torn off the mast where the hinged flaps wrap around the mast - the pin sheared through the knuckles of the hinge. Apart from the above and a small tear in upper half of sail I was surprised no other damage was done and I am wondering if this failure at the hinge joint actually absorbed alot of the force thereby reducing damage. Does anyone have an opinion on incorporating (inexpensive) breaking points into certain components / gear. Has anyone else had this happen.

BTW the boom was a Autima carbon and I too held onto boom going over the handle bars.

Hmmmm........... There is definitely something to be said for that idea and that is why Tom has been working on the breakaway harness lines.

It is interesting that your boom failed at the clamp. I guess with the stronger carbon arms that was the next weaker point. Maybe a good thing really as I guess a new head fitting should be a lot cheaper than a set of carbon arms?

OK, so how about using weaker rope on the clamp???
Might damage battens, they'd be under a lot of compression once the clamp gave way?

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decrepit said...

OK, so how about using weaker rope on the clamp???
Might damage battens, they'd be under a lot of compression once the clamp gave way?

What if the boom end only locked in with outhaul tension and released from boom arm when clamp released. Bit like a zip tie in reverse though.

But are we 100% sure that breaking away from the rig is a safer way to crash? The classic catapault where you go around the rig is usually fairly painless. The worst shakeup I've had was when I anticipated a crash and stepped off the back, if you don't have time to tuck up the water catches your legs and slaps you down pretty hard. The catapault at least gets your angular momentum going in the right direction before you hit the water.

It seems not clearing the rig is the big danger. Are we sure breakaway lines reduce the probability of this happening? A studded helmet is another safety feature we could think about - if you face planted the monofilm you should go through it a bit easier.

My interest in breakaway harness lines in simply to save my booms. It might also take a bit of strain off my poor old body if I don't get stopped quite so suddenly. The idea is that everything proceeds and normal until the point just after the sail and body hit the water. It that point as the sail digs in the lines break and I am free to bounce along on my back without breaking my boom.
I am not thinking at all of the lines breaking away during flight.

I think yoyo's ski style binding idea has some Merritt.
There could be a binding on either hip of your harness which you clip your spreader bar strait into and select your desired tension ,then on impact the spreader flies off.
The spreader could be on a string so you don't lose it.
As you're flying through the air you just have to hope the spreader doesn't re-coil into your nuts..
Perhaps the safety string issue needs some thought!

i think to make your harness lines come off it would be simple to use a clip.

ie. the part of the line that normally ties to the boom (webbing) gets replaced by a plastic clip. if the clip had a slot in it the thickness of the plastic could be made so under high tension the clip spreads and releases from the boom arm.

then just clip it back on to get going again.



i whipped this up in cad.

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Gestalt said...
>>>>>>
if the clip had a slot in it the thickness of the plastic could be made so under high tension the clip spreads and releases from the boom arm.

then just clip it back on to get going again.

<<<<<<<<<

The first part makes some sort of sense, but "just" clip it back on, may not be that easy.
If the clip tension is strong enough to hold your weight, clipping it back on is going to take some doing, especially floating around in high wind chop.