Post in Windsurfjournal is pretty rich.

http://www.windsurfjournal.com/frontblocks/news/PaperView.asp?id_papers=3484&ID_BB_LANGUAGES=2

Statements about the accuracy of personal GPS are totally incorrect and unsupported and then he insinuates cheating by 'other record events'

Arrogant!

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sailquik said...

Post in Windsurfjournal is pretty rich.

http://www.windsurfjournal.com/frontblocks/news/PaperView.asp?id_papers=3484&ID_BB_LANGUAGES=2

Statements about the accuracy of personal GPS are totally incorrect and unsupported and then he insinuates cheating by 'other record events'

Arrogant!

"And then I'd ask them to respect the work we've done here ! To organize their attempts with the same rigour we did ours, respecting the true rules ! And that all the riders and pilots involved in the next series of attempts make sure they're fully within the rules ! It'll make any "records" all the more beautiful and I'll be the first to applaud them ! The 50 knot mark is too important to take it lightly. And don't forget either that it's the average speed over 500 metres not just a spot time at one moment. The mobile GPS has sadly shown itself, during the Southend event for instance, to be totally unreliable. For the time being only the Hydroptere's GPS Trimble has the necessary reliability and precision."

Daffy get down off your high horse and ratchet back the rhetoric before you blow a fuse. I've posted the section of the statement I think you're referring to, can't see any mention of cheating at all, only a request for everyone to respect the true rules for a record attempt. You may find he was referring to Tillman's claims of a World Record for 50 knots over 500 meters a few months ago.

He was correct in his summation of the problems with the mobile GPS system at Southend, it did have problems recording and transmitting the data on a few days, that may be the "reliability" he is referring to, I see no mention of "accuracy" in his statement. He does mention "precision" and he is correct in saying the Trimble system is the only one that currently meets all the WSSRC requirements for GPS use in record attempts.

I thought with all the progress made between the ISWC and GPSSS recently all this talk of us against them would fade away and everyone would work together, seems the resentment lingers. Let's not see speedsailing tear itself apart and fade away like it did back in the 1990's, there's room for everyone to get out and enjoy going fast whether attempting world records or setting personal records.

I agree with Roo. Trimble system is the only way to go. GPS's are good, but more for just keeping personal best times and for fun speed competitions on the internet. Why not just set up a Trimble system in Australia, if you want your records to be "Official"

The GPS crew arguing about who has the biggest Doppler yet again, when will it end? The GPS units are really for fun, if you want to claim a world record then you should follow the world record rules. Does this mean that Yellow Pages still holds the Australian 500m speed record that was set in 1993 despite all the GPS crew carry on? The GPSSS takes itself far to seriously and its become a boring international windsurfing diary anyway where people post every single session even if it was in 8 knots of wind and they didn't even get planning, no wonder its only of interest to amateurs, proffessional windsurfers don't seem to want much to do with it.

To make things easier there should be 2 classes of "world records" one using the ISWC rules and the other being a hand held GPS(but it should be one specific make eg Navi -5hz).
99.9% of sailors don't have the time or funds to pay for and setup an offical event,this is for the elite .1%

"Frenchman makes unsupported statements"

Yawnnnnn...so what's new?

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Stewie said...

I agree with Roo. Trimble system is the only way to go. GPS's are good, but more for just keeping personal best times and for fun speed competitions on the internet. Why not just set up a Trimble system in Australia, if you want your records to be "Official"

I have a sub 10cm trimble gps unit in a back pack with omnistar subscription but I am not sure what you mean when you say "trimble system in Australia". There is no reason I couldnt sail with the unit apart from the fact I would look like a a leggo space man but i am pretty sure the result still wouldnt be rattified. If you were to mould the antenna into a helmet and smaller battery with some water proofing and a WSSRC official on call, it could be an option. These units are about the size of a brick paver and weight roughly a kilo but the battery is the killer. oh and price ($5000 plus subscription and logger). You can hire these units so that might be the go or pick up trimble as a sponser.

I thought he was referring to the tremble system as the video timing system. I meant, Set up a WSSRC ratified Video Timing system if you want your times to be official.

That's what I'm going to do when I go for 50 knots later this year. I found a spot better than Sandy Pt. I found it on Google Earth, but cant tell anyone, as I will be the first, to the "official" big 50.

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choco said...

To make things easier there should be 2 classes of "world records" one using the ISWC rules and the other being a hand held GPS(but it should be one specific make eg Navi -5hz).
99.9% of sailors don't have the time or funds to pay for and setup an offical event,this is for the elite .1%

Choco, so far 1Hz is all you need and it has 5 times less error than 5Hz. The Navi will do just fine.

99.9% of sailors don't have the ability to go faster than 49.1 knots. Many more have the funds to hire a WSSRC commissioner, surveyor and video system and an even greater percentage can afford a 1/10 or 1/20 of that.

World records are nice but there are many who would just love to have the chance to see what is the best that they can do in an officially recognized event.

Aw, c'mon Stewie....fess up.

I'll show you my spot if you show me yours

Roo said:

Daffy get down off your high horse and ratchet back the rhetoric before you blow a fuse. I've posted the section of the statement I think you're referring to, can't see any mention of cheating at all, only a request for everyone to respect the true rules for a record attempt. You may find he was referring to Tillman's claims of a World Record for 50 knots over 500 meters a few months ago.

No horses here Kean. Do you know what the English word 'insinuate' means? Take your own advice!

The WSSRC rules are very clear. There is no such thing as the 'true' rules and 'other' rules. The are simply the 'WSSRC' rules. I very much doubt that he was referring to Tillmans GPS speeds. That was clearly not even remotely within the rules of the WSSRC.

He was correct in his summation of the problems with the mobile GPS system at Southend, it did have problems recording and transmitting the data on a few days, that may be the "reliability" he is referring to, I see no mention of "accuracy" in his statement. He does mention "precision" and he is correct in saying the Trimble system is the only one that currently meets all the WSSRC requirements for GPS use in record attempts.

He was certainly not correct to say that the personal GPS tested at Driven By Wind were unreliable. The speeds recorded by those GPS were within the expected margin of error and they were not 'unreliable'. It seems the actual transmission of data via GPRS to the web had problems but that is nothing to do with the 'reliability' or 'precision' of the recorded data from the units. It has been shown that that personal GPS data can be just as accurate as the Video Timing used at the Canal. The GT-31 accuracy is shaping up to be significantly better than Video.

I thought with all the progress made between the ISWC and GPSSS recently all this talk of us against them would fade away and everyone would work together, seems the resentment lingers. Let's not see speedsailing tear itself apart and fade away like it did back in the 1990's, there's room for everyone to get out and enjoy going fast whether attempting world records or setting personal records.

Again, you are talking through your hat Kean. This guy is not representing ISWC or WSSRC. He was expressing personal opinions in what appears to be a mischievous way. This is nothing to do with either body. Applying a bit of clear thinking by you would have established that, or perhaps you are being mischievous as well.......?

Whoa, everyone stand back....Daffy's about to blow! I think Dave White, organiser of the Driven By Wind event, has summed all this up perfectly when he said on GPS SS, "Speed has regained favor with both sailor and spectator, lets work together to enjoy our passion."