Whilst the pros, the insane and those with cadmium plated steel balls approach the 40 kt foiling barrier, back here on earth mere mortals are struggling to get near 30kts.
My foils seem to be happy and nicely balanced chugging along at 16 to 20kts. I can push them to 24 or so, but then things get really scary. The faster I go, the more I need to load the harness to keep the foil from breeching, when I reach mid twenties I can apply no more downward force through the harness. It is not fun breeching at this speed.
I realize there are many things I can do to combat the extra lift at speed. Eg. Move mast base forward, move feet forward, adjust angle of stabilizer or use a smaller foil. I have tried all these things. But what is the best approach?
I would be interested to hear from those you can reach speeds in the high twenties. How are you dealing with the extra lift? Are you still using front and rear foot straps? Is your setup still suitable for cruising around or are you just set up for max speed?
I am using Starboard race foils both 550 and 800 wings.

Interesting question. I've only had a race foil for a short time but it seems like staying out of the back strap and controlling downwind angle by shifting my rear foot forward quickly keeps me from breaching. But my sustained high speeds are probably only 22-24mph so I'm not really that fast.

I saw that video of one of the top guys going almost limp and bending knees in what looked like a gust (posted below). Not how you would do it on a beam reach with a wing as small as a 550, are you just reaching with that size of a wing? Maybe need to come upwind. Sometimes I can see a gust coming and go deeper downwind or upwind at the right moment, other times I go too far upwind and end up falling back on the water and have to fall off to get back going quickly. Wouldn't mind having a wing that small for the right conditions, but I'd like a cammed speed sail smaller than the 9.0


Here's Andy on a foil. Look at around 1:25. You can see he comes out of the harness and gets low to maybe deal with a gust? It's not clear to me.




Here's me yesterday going downwind and getting slapped by a crazy gust out of nowhere and I breach but manage to stay on the board. Not setting any speed records here though. Not sure how I would react fast enough to keep it in control in this situation, there wasn't a noticeable ripple on the water warning me, just a quick change in wind noise then I was out of the water. I noticed that I canted the sail more towards me (felt like the sail just did it), around 3:50-4:00 mins

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tbwonder said..
Whilst the pros, the insane and those with cadmium plated steel balls approach the 40 kt foiling barrier, back here on earth mere mortals are struggling to get near 30kts.
My foils seem to be happy and nicely balanced chugging along at 16 to 20kts. I can push them to 24 or so, but then things get really scary. The faster I go, the more I need to load the harness to keep the foil from breeching, when I reach mid twenties I can apply no more downward force through the harness. It is not fun breeching at this speed.
....

In truth they are still far from the 40 knots barrier, but If you want to go fast and easy ... get a board with a fin!

(sorry, could not restrain myself! I am at home covered in bruises after a MTB spill!)

Not sure, just looking around at other's stuff.
I use a 600 sq cm front foil about 75% of my foiling. Naish kitewing. 157 lbs.
Appears my foil falls in around biggest of a slalom 3 pak, so it's useable any day breeze goes over 14 knots.
Can't foil up in sub 11 knot breeze, with 5.7 and extreme pumping.
Some foil builder suggested I try my back stabilizer ..320..as a front foil, to see if I can.
And a 170 stabilizer, which I don't have.

A while ago after a dozen or so sessions on the foil I did 20.9 knots on a 1220 Naish WS1 with the 64cm fuse . There was a lot of puckering going on ... and then I hit the sand bank. www.ka72.com/Track/t/376412

I can't say that I notice an enormous amount of extra lift at speed or when super-powered up. I feel my foil just needs a gradual transition to top speed, allowing my body weight to shift without creating any undue spikes to board height via mast foot pressure or foot positioning. Unlike slalom gear sailing for instance. Stability is key for me.......and patience. Good topic, Andy!

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tbwonder said..
Whilst the pros, the insane and those with cadmium plated steel balls approach the 40 kt foiling barrier, back here on earth mere mortals are struggling to get near 30kts.
My foils seem to be happy and nicely balanced chugging along at 16 to 20kts. I can push them to 24 or so, but then things get really scary. The faster I go, the more I need to load the harness to keep the foil from breeching, when I reach mid twenties I can apply no more downward force through the harness. It is not fun breeching at this speed.
I realize there are many things I can do to combat the extra lift at speed. Eg. Move mast base forward, move feet forward, adjust angle of stabilizer or use a smaller foil. I have tried all these things. But what is the best approach?
I would be interested to hear from those you can reach speeds in the high twenties. How are you dealing with the extra lift? Are you still using front and rear foot straps? Is your setup still suitable for cruising around or are you just set up for max speed?
I am using Starboard race foils both 550 and 800 wings.

I can't say im any closer to 30 knts than you are, but the footage of Nico getting close to 40 in the other fast foiling thread i reckon speaks volumes about making a foil go fast. Obviously he's on the right gear to do it (a foil slalom board and small wing foil to suit) but he's got a slalom looking stance, and keeps the board heeled over so he can maintain control over it.

Typically down breeze on course racing foils, you don't go for heel on the board, you shift your body weight forward, keep the board sitting square upright, and bear off in gusts, because you're not ultimately chasing max speeds, you're trying to get to the downwind mark as soon as possible (as in thats what its designed to do) i guess it's easy to fall into doing that all the time, because it's what we've become used to doing, but it really lets the foil generate lift in a gust

the times i've felt the most comfortable going down breeze at speed i've had the small wing on, and i've found myself in a stance much like Nicos' heeled over, and being able to control the lift easier. Probably couldn't do it with the big wing.

but thats all just my 2cents. Hopefully someone thats actually done 30 will jump in soon with some actual experience.

I figure......with 1220 foil, maybe 16 knots. With 600 foil, maybe 19 knots.
Do I need a 310 front wing to hit 25 knots?

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LeeD said..
I figure......with 1220 foil, maybe 16 knots. With 600 foil, maybe 19 knots.
Do I need a 310 front wing to hit 25 knots?

With the standard Starboard wings you can get 30 knots with the 800 / 725 / 650 or 550 wings. You just need stability to be able to apply the power. Of course more wind helps but i have been able to hit 29.925 knots with the 9.0m HGO.
One of the biggest hurdles is your perception of speed and fear. 30 knots a 1m above the water feels fast and takes awhile to get use to. And of course if you do crash you can stop real quick :))

I am definitely no expert but its getting everything perfectly tuned to go fast. With a slalom/speed setup there is not as much to do. Sure you need to tune the sail, have a great fin etc. Foiling to me seems to be a lot more complicated to get the perfect set up so your gear is balanced and then you can start pushing it. I can get into the 24/26 knot range but then each knot after feels really hard to get. Good post Andy Also you don't want to have massive crashes every time you are pushing towards 30 Awesome job Daryl and you are one of the fastest guys in OZ on a foil for sure. Any other trade secrets you might want to tell us mere foiling mortals would be greatly appreciated

On my bear aways above 22 kts I take my rear foot out of the strap and place it in board of the strap. This allows me to go super deep, but it doesn't allow me to heel the board over. In this position I feel safe as I can ease the back foot forward if I need to. If things turn nasty and I am ejected, only having one foot in feels like less chance of an injury.
Looks like I will have to try heeling the board over more and keep both feet in the straps, which I guess allow you to have more leverage to control the ride height.
I know Boston uses this technique and he gets some crazy speeds, but I have seen his crashes and I'm getting too old for that sort of thing.

Not true about NSW, I have done over 30 several times but my Garmin never matched the speed from my GW60 ??????????????????????????

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tbwonder said..
Whilst the pros, the insane and those with cadmium plated steel balls approach the 40 kt foiling barrier, back here on earth mere mortals are struggling to get near 30kts.
My foils seem to be happy and nicely balanced chugging along at 16 to 20kts. I can push them to 24 or so, but then things get really scary. The faster I go, the more I need to load the harness to keep the foil from breeching, when I reach mid twenties I can apply no more downward force through the harness. It is not fun breeching at this speed.
I realize there are many things I can do to combat the extra lift at speed. Eg. Move mast base forward, move feet forward, adjust angle of stabilizer or use a smaller foil. I have tried all these things. But what is the best approach?
I would be interested to hear from those you can reach speeds in the high twenties. How are you dealing with the extra lift? Are you still using front and rear foot straps? Is your setup still suitable for cruising around or are you just set up for max speed?
I am using Starboard race foils both 550 and 800 wings.

Hi, yep you are on the right track. Biggest question is what fuse are you using? The fuse is the key ingredient! If your using the 95+ or 115+ Anything over 26kn will kill you. The old 95 or old 115 (black ones) are good for speed. My current fastest set up is 800 front old 95 fuse and -2/255 rear. (31.79 10sec ave). In saying that I have the new 105+ fuse but haven't had the right conditions for a good send session yet! My current top speed on the 650, 105+ and -2/255 rear is 31.23kn. I have the new -2/ 200 thin rear but can't get it to work yet, it's fast but toooooo loooose.... scares the **** out of me! Like slick race tyres on a 1000cc in the wet!
the only other trick I can suggest is just before you breach load the harness lines (bed the knees) and tip the board into windward that works a treat!
To go fast and hit the limit is an awesome feeling but it's expensive and hurts! you need to buy masts in a "six pack" and lots of harness lines. I haven't busted a boom yet but I'm not far off.... I raced road bikes for years and the sensation of high speed foiling is the only sport that gives me the same rush as doing 300 klicks on a bike! Oh and the crashes have about the same consequences albeit a fair bit cheaper

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waterbouy101 said..
Hi, yep you are on the right track. Biggest question is what fuse are you using? The fuse is the key ingredient! If your using the 95+ or 115+ Anything over 26kn will kill you. The old 95 or old 115 (black ones) are good for speed. My current fastest set up is 800 front old 95 fuse and -2/255 rear. (31.79 10sec ave). In saying that I have the new 105+ fuse but haven't had the right conditions for a good send session yet! My current top speed on the 650, 105+ and -2/255 rear is 31.23kn. I have the new -2/ 200 thin rear but can't get it to work yet, it's fast but toooooo loooose.... scares the **** out of me! Like slick race tyres on a 1000cc in the wet!
the only other trick I can suggest is just before you breach load the harness lines (bed the knees) and tip the board into windward that works a treat!
To go fast and hit the limit is an awesome feeling but it's expensive and hurts! you need to buy masts in a "six pack" and lots of harness lines. I haven't busted a boom yet but I'm not far off.... I raced road bikes for years and the sensation of high speed foiling is the only sport that gives me the same rush as doing 300 klicks on a bike! Oh and the crashes have about the same consequences albeit a fair bit cheaper

Good info, thanks for sharing Waterbouy101, make sure your helmet strap and body armour are on tight mate
Do you post your sessions to KA72 or GPSTC ? as I would love to follow your progress towards 35....

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waterbouy101 said..

tbwonder said..
Whilst the pros, the insane and those with cadmium plated steel balls approach the 40 kt foiling barrier, back here on earth mere mortals are struggling to get near 30kts.
My foils seem to be happy and nicely balanced chugging along at 16 to 20kts. I can push them to 24 or so, but then things get really scary. The faster I go, the more I need to load the harness to keep the foil from breeching, when I reach mid twenties I can apply no more downward force through the harness. It is not fun breeching at this speed.
I realize there are many things I can do to combat the extra lift at speed. Eg. Move mast base forward, move feet forward, adjust angle of stabilizer or use a smaller foil. I have tried all these things. But what is the best approach?
I would be interested to hear from those you can reach speeds in the high twenties. How are you dealing with the extra lift? Are you still using front and rear foot straps? Is your setup still suitable for cruising around or are you just set up for max speed?
I am using Starboard race foils both 550 and 800 wings.

Hi, yep you are on the right track. Biggest question is what fuse are you using? The fuse is the key ingredient! If your using the 95+ or 115+ Anything over 26kn will kill you. The old 95 or old 115 (black ones) are good for speed. My current fastest set up is 800 front old 95 fuse and -2/255 rear. (31.79 10sec ave). In saying that I have the new 105+ fuse but haven't had the right conditions for a good send session yet! My current top speed on the 650, 105+ and -2/255 rear is 31.23kn. I have the new -2/ 200 thin rear but can't get it to work yet, it's fast but toooooo loooose.... scares the **** out of me! Like slick race tyres on a 1000cc in the wet!
the only other trick I can suggest is just before you breach load the harness lines (bed the knees) and tip the board into windward that works a treat!
To go fast and hit the limit is an awesome feeling but it's expensive and hurts! you need to buy masts in a "six pack" and lots of harness lines. I haven't busted a boom yet but I'm not far off.... I raced road bikes for years and the sensation of high speed foiling is the only sport that gives me the same rush as doing 300 klicks on a bike! Oh and the crashes have about the same consequences albeit a fair bit cheaper

Some impressive speeds there. WB. You are obviously trying to send it more than me. I have not broken a mast in 3 years and only have a straight line speed crash probably once in every 7 sessions. :)))
I think the plus fuses are actually pretty good just depends on sail size. ie 9.0m and 725 / 115+ is perfect ( 29 plus) ( but doesn't work with 7.0)6 and 7m work well with 95+ 105+ generally prefer the plus fuses over the older ones. Especially with the advantage of easily trimming the tail wing.

I use the original black 95 fuse most of the time for speed, I have a home made -2 shim. I am in the middle of extending a 75cm fuse to be 95 long. This will result in a 95 minus. Which I hope will allow me to comfortably go quicker.

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tbwonder said..
I use the original black 95 fuse most of the time for speed, I have a home made -2 shim. I am in the middle of extending a 75cm fuse to be 95 long. This will result in a 95 minus. Which I hope will allow me to comfortably go quicker.

Yep I find the old 95 is very fast with the -2/255 rear. The other tip I can offer is you need to reduce the drag, the connection between the foils and the fuse and the foils themselves. All my foils/ masts and fuses are wet rubbed to 3000 grit. The prep on the foils is a key part of the speed. It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

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waterbouy101 said..

tbwonder said..
I use the original black 95 fuse most of the time for speed, I have a home made -2 shim. I am in the middle of extending a 75cm fuse to be 95 long. This will result in a 95 minus. Which I hope will allow me to comfortably go quicker.

Yep I find the old 95 is very fast with the -2/255 rear. The other tip I can offer is you need to reduce the drag, the connection between the foils and the fuse and the foils themselves. All my foils/ masts and fuses are wet rubbed to 3000 grit. The prep on the foils is a key part of the speed. It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

There's my problem I only spent 30 mins sanding my front wing

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waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

So I've been testing lots of different finishes, 600 all the way up to 3000 wetrub with polish and without polish and so far the 3000 finish is by far the quickest. It seems the more I clean them up the faster they go, 27.43kn was top for a fair while until I really started to put the work in on the wetrub. Since then the speed keeps getting better. The other conclusion I have come to is the old 95 is faster due to less drag, the tail connection on the 95 is much cleaner than the 105+. The rear shim system is very clunky and impossible to clean up, too many edges and the plastic doesn't wetrub ..

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waterbouy101 said..
So I've been testing lots of different finishes, 600 all the way up to 3000 wetrub with polish and without polish and so far the 3000 finish is by far the quickest. It seems the more I clean them up the faster they go, 27.43kn was top for a fair while until I really started to put the work in on the wetrub. Since then the speed keeps getting better. The other conclusion I have come to is the old 95 is faster due to less drag, the tail connection on the 95 is much cleaner than the 105+. The rear shim system is very clunky and impossible to clean up, too many edges and the plastic doesn't wetrub ..

What did you think of the polish?
I tried and found it terrible.

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tbwonder said..

waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

I think he uses the wind between his ears to get his gps speed ?? if he was as fast as he claims he would post to the gpstc. Anyway I polish my evo foil and it goes faster but only 28. I reckon it could do 31.8 kts but I don't push it that hard due to the full open lake chop ?????? Maybe Waterbouy could come up to Coalie in summer and show us all how fast he is.

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jusavina said..

waterbouy101 said..
So I've been testing lots of different finishes, 600 all the way up to 3000 wetrub with polish and without polish and so far the 3000 finish is by far the quickest. It seems the more I clean them up the faster they go, 27.43kn was top for a fair while until I really started to put the work in on the wetrub. Since then the speed keeps getting better. The other conclusion I have come to is the old 95 is faster due to less drag, the tail connection on the 95 is much cleaner than the 105+. The rear shim system is very clunky and impossible to clean up, too many edges and the plastic doesn't wetrub ..

What did you think of the polish?
I tried and found it terrible.

Yep, no good! Kept loosing lamina flow

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Tinlyds said..

tbwonder said..

waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

I think he uses the wind between his ears to get his gps speed ?? if he was as fast as he claims he would post to the gpstc. Anyway I polish my evo foil and it goes faster but only 28. I reckon it could do 31.8 kts but I don't push it that hard due to the full open lake chop ?????? Maybe Waterbouy could come up to Coalie in summer and show us all how fast he i


Thanks for reminding why I don't post stuff! This was a slow ****ty session in a nasty gusty westerly 2 weeks ago. 56.1 converts to 30.29kn..happy to put my money where my moth is any time...

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Tinlyds said..

tbwonder said..

waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

I think he uses the wind between his ears to get his gps speed ?? if he was as fast as he claims he would post to the gpstc. Anyway I polish my evo foil and it goes faster but only 28. I reckon it could do 31.8 kts but I don't push it that hard due to the full open lake chop ?????? Maybe Waterbouy could come up to Coalie in summer and show us all how fast he is.

My fastest session 64.7kms = 34.93kn. Happy now?

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waterbouy101 said..

Tinlyds said..

tbwonder said..

waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

I think he uses the wind between his ears to get his gps speed ?? if he was as fast as he claims he would post to the gpstc. Anyway I polish my evo foil and it goes faster but only 28. I reckon it could do 31.8 kts but I don't push it that hard due to the full open lake chop ?????? Maybe Waterbouy could come up to Coalie in summer and show us all how fast he is.

My fastest session 64.7kms = 34.93kn. Happy now?

Why would I be happy with a couple of squiggly lines on a map in km/h , unless I missed the memo is that a legitimate GPS or a cheap alternative ???

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Tinlyds said..

waterbouy101 said..

Tinlyds said..

tbwonder said..

waterbouy101 said..

It takes about 8hrs to tune up a front foil, 6hrs to do a rear foil and about 8hrs to do a mast..and very sore hands and arms!

So you say you have done 31.79 kts on your super tuned up foil. What do you estimate your speed would be if you did only the very basics of polishing out the major scratches once a year like I do.

I think he uses the wind between his ears to get his gps speed ?? if he was as fast as he claims he would post to the gpstc. Anyway I polish my evo foil and it goes faster but only 28. I reckon it could do 31.8 kts but I don't push it that hard due to the full open lake chop ?????? Maybe Waterbouy could come up to Coalie in summer and show us all how fast he is.

My fastest session 64.7kms = 34.93kn. Happy now?

Why would I be happy with a couple of squiggly lines on a map in km/h , unless I missed the memo is that a legitimate GPS or a cheap alternative ???

Yeah your right fella, I just got my red pen out and did a little squiggle..

Waterbouy,
just to explain there has been a long running issue in the gps community about non approved devices giving unreliable spikes. For speed the first requirement is to use 2 sec. average instead of max speed, that usually takes out about .3/.6 of a knot. Also approved devices record the precision of each fix, at least once a second, latest devices as much as 10 times a second, so any files can be analized for anomalies.
At the moment the most stringent requirements are enforced by GPS Team challenge: www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/
If you are interested and are prepared to get an approved device you can join one of the teams, our Botany team is the Double Demerits, best foilers are Berowne, Dieter and Julian. I can lend you a device if you want to come for a try.
On KA72 it is possible to post with any devices, and there is a 'Windfoilers worldwide' group with monthly standing , but some foilers feel that because any device is allowed the results are not so reliable, so they did not join: ka72.com/

I believe that even for allowing for spikes you could be the fastest in NSW, so it would be worthwhile for you to join the gps team challenge. I joined many years ago and made a lot of friends, but I am slow so did not hurt any egos

Waterbuoy, this is blistering fast!!!
What board and sail do you use?