Hi, is this anything like the lakes in Australia

Sure is mate looks good thanks.

great video!

Looks great.. Yep it's like Aus lakes but you have an important ingredient we've been missing lately..wind!

I have sailed about 10 miles from there, in Bork Haven, a few years ago. That's a decent flat water spot with mostly hip-deep water that's now overrun with kite beginners. I don't remember weeds being an issue, but the spot in the video is a lot shallower and may be on a lake instead of the saltwater ford. Looks very nice!

Now you've got my juices running! That looks fantastic.
The weed here has mainly disappeared, and I'm hanging out for some real smoooooooooth.

The sound is the real indicator, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh is smooth. Just the sound of the wake spray landing back on the water. No ratatatatat from the board at all.
But saying that it has been nice sailing with high aspect ratio fins instead of those deltoids.

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boardsurfr said..
I have sailed about 10 miles from there, in Bork Haven, a few years ago. That's a decent flat water spot with mostly hip-deep water that's now overrun with kite beginners. I don't remember weeds being an issue, but the spot in the video is a lot shallower and may be on a lake instead of the saltwater ford. Looks very nice!

It is the same water aka. Ringk?bing fjord. In Bork a little weed some times. In Kloster a lot of weed, only weedfree in the winter, but the weed just makes it an awesome spot. There are a lot of kites in Kloster but the spot is huge, so it is no problem.

Looks really great!
I've been to the Fjord, but not to this end of it.
Do you know what the best speeds recorded on it are so far?
Is it flat enough for serious speed in really strong winds?
This does look like an outstanding spot for a very fast hour in the right conditions to me.

Yep it looks alot like our lakes!
What fins are you using?
Here is our local when there is wind!

I have been sailing there in around 35 knots water was flat.
I am new to slalom and speed( 3 year in) and pretty light 78 kg and I use freeracesails with 3 cambers and a relatively small mast pocket. So experiend and bigger guys can go faster.
I am waiting for a maui ultra fin delta XT in 16, but the whole first production was shipped to Australia

Here are the data from the Day the video was made. Not really powered enough for speed but the next sail is 7,2

Great video ...

Some HD from the West Coast of Australia - However, the only drone here is the sailor

How much would I give to get weed like that back there again????????????????????????
Can't get any smoother than that.

This weed issue has kept me baffled for some time now.
I'd always only known weed as a nuisance, as I only know the type that comes in thick lumps. So it really took me some time to understand how people can go so fast on Lake George.
Time to find more places of the kind in Europe!
But can weed of this kind become too thick, so it really slows you down too much?
Is there a top speed, so does the weed at a certain point pose too much resistance to your raked fin?

Sorry for my silly questions, I have yet to sail on waters of that kind.

Question is certainly not silly!!!!!!!!!!!
The answer is yes. Our spot in Albany has very thick tough abrasive weed. At low tide it's above the surface in places of the Nautical mile run. You can definitely feel it slowing you down as you go through it, especially if you only have a 45deg fin on.

There's a great variation in types of weed, I think every weedy spot is a bit different. We've been developing slightly different fins to optimise minimum drag. Some weed is very fine and light and grows so long it grows horizontally along the surface of the water. This produces the flattest water but also more drag. Here you need a very racked short fin. In flat shallow water these fins aren't as inefficient as they are in deep water. And some of the extra drag and fin inefficiency is made up for by the flat water.
In most of the sailed parts of Lake George, the weed isn't that close to the surface. You can get away with 30deg at the base curving to 45/50 at the tip, as it's usually only the tip in the weed.

One of the big advantages of big flat areas is being able to pick the best downwind angle, instead of having to follow a speed bank.

There's a story from NSW about a visiting "guru" who was given a specialised weed fin, for heavy flat water weed, to try.
Obviously because he was a "guru", no one thought they had to explain to him what flatwater weed sailing was all about. Because after his sail, he handed the fin back, saying it was the worst fin he'd ever used. BUT whenever he got close to the weedy flat water, he gybed and stayed out of it.

Not sure about top speed, I've certainly got all my best speeds in weedy spots but that's only 39kts.

There's a theory about some weed, that seems on the money, that the weed produces oil of some sort that helps flatten the water. But if the wind is too strong the oil gets mixed up and a bit of chop appears. The heavier the weed the stronger the weed it can handle, but the more drag it has. This where longer fins are a liability, any drag on a long fin pushes the nose down, increasing wetted area.

There's another theory that the compression wave in front of the fin helps to part the weed before it hits the fin. The faster you go the more this happens. This is what you feel sub planing the weed feels more draggy than once you get going, but this could just be how low the board sits in the weed sub planing.

Thanks Decrepit,
as always a very comprehensive and knowledgable answer.
It's fascinating that you can choose your angle freely, which would make me think one can fool arond and get used to what one can do on a speed board without having to wait for the day wehere everything is perfectly aligned.
The weed oil theory is interesting in itself.


Kasper:

Are you sailing north of this little dam which can be seen in Google maps or south of it? Is there weed on both sides?
Would beginning of November sound like a good time to sail there or does the weed recede before?

great cartoons kasper must have taken a long time to produce

The footage is shot in the Peel Estuary,Mandurah. The weed is predominately an area of bottom growing weed that is fairly fine. When it is dense, it is abrasive, but can it be traversed with a 50 degree rake. We also get clumps of free floating weed and algae that form weed-burgs and they require a 55 degree rake fin to traverse. The fastest water is immediately in the lee of a the long strips of weed burgs that form on the outer of the weed beds.

Having said all that, most people get a greater buzz from the Magic Carpet Ride. The water is glass, and the only sound is the steady ssshhhhhh from the board. Just as Decrepit says, and it's terribly addictive. It's also deceptively fast... This video was shot in 15 knots breeze (fast forward the first 60 seconds).

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ZeeGerman said..
Thanks Decrepit,
as always a very comprehensive and knowledgable answer.
It's fascinating that you can choose your angle freely, which would make me think one can fool arond and get used to what one can do on a speed board without having to wait for the day wehere everything is perfectly aligned.
The weed oil theory is interesting in itself.


Kasper:

Are you sailing north of this little dam which can be seen in Google maps or south of it? Is there weed on both sides?
Would beginning of November sound like a good time to sail there or does the weed recede before?

North of the Dam is no go. It is a nature reserve and there is no room. But South of the there plenty room and plenty weed.
I sailed there two days ago. I had to stop in the weed to help a kiter, what one does for good karma, it was impossible to get going again, had to walk to some free water, but once you planning you dont feel the weed

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Kasper79 said..
>>>>
I sailed there two days ago. I had to stop in the weed to help a kiter, what one does for good karma, it was impossible to get going again, had to walk to some free water, but once you planning you dont feel the weed

With a 50/55 deg, low aspect ration fin, you can take off anywhere, but it may not be quite as fast if the weed is several centimeters below the surface.
Kiters tend to stay out of our really weedy spots, as weed in their lines causes them all sorts of problems.

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decrepit said..
There's another theory that the compression wave in front of the fin helps to part the weed before it hits the fin. The faster you go the more this happens. This is what you feel sub planing the weed feels more draggy than once you get going, but this could just be how low the board sits in the weed sub planing.

Who thinks the compression-wave parts the weed ?

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ZeeGerman said..
This weed issue has kept me baffled for some time now.
I'd always only known weed as a nuisance, as I only know the type that comes in thick lumps. So it really took me some time to understand how people can go so fast on Lake George.
Time to find more places of the kind in Europe!
But can weed of this kind become too thick, so it really slows you down too much?
Is there a top speed, so does the weed at a certain point pose too much resistance to your raked fin?

Sorry for my silly questions, I have yet to sail on waters of that kind.

Watch for weedbergs before you gybe..

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mathew said..

decrepit said..
There's another theory that the compression wave in front of the fin helps to part the weed before it hits the fin. The faster you go the more this happens. This is what you feel sub planing the weed feels more draggy than once you get going, but this could just be how low the board sits in the weed sub planing.

Who thinks the compression-wave parts the weed ?

Given that water is incompressible and the weed is mostly water, its seems logical that the weed will mostly move with the water flow around a fin. I have noticed that my blunt/rounded edged leading edges exhibit very little wear, whilst my fine leading edge fins get chopped up. I wonder whether the blunt edge creates a larger zone right on the leading edge where theoretically there is almost no flow at all and that thus less wear?

I have sailed most of the Australian weedy speed spots. As Decrepit says, they all have different characteristics.

Lake George, SA: When, and where it is at it's best, the weed is right to the surface and the water glassy in 30 Knots. It is very fine weed. Even in this stuff I had no issues with a Lessacher 30 degree raked fin, when I did my PB 1Hr -28.8kts, gybing in this stuff at each end of the runs. Brad Anderson did the 1Hr world record (30+ knots) here as well with a BP weed speed (40 or 45 deg?) i have never felt any extra drag in this weed either (maybe a bit from touching the bottom mud in the shallowest spots ), and speeds well in excess of 45 knots have been done in it in no more than 30 knots of wind. My Tribal Weedspeed fins work perfectly here. Even a less than 30 degree C3 Slingshot worked well for me on one occasion. Whatever slight extra drag there may be is easily made up for by the super smooth water, often super steady strongish wind and ability to pick the perfect angle.

Peel Estuary,WA: The weed in 2015 was good when I was there and I got away with my 40 degree speed fins on my speed board, but sometimes it was tricky to get going if I stopped in the densest weed. Once moving, no problem. On the slalom board and bigger sails, I used a borrowed, (specially trained by Fangy), Delta fin and it was great even in the thickest stuff. I think may have been OK on a 45 degree rake fin as well. There were not any really thick Weedbergs, but I had no problems with those that were there.

In 2016 I sailed at Liptons in slightly more sparse weed and was fine on my 35-45 degree (curved leading edge) Tribal Weedspeed.

Albany, WA: As Decrepit says, this weed is very different from the aforementioned. There are really thick areas and some of it has very thick stalks. You can definitely feel them, but I don't think they slow you down much when you are at speed. It is also the most abrasive I have encountered on the fins leading edge! The slightly less thick areas seem to have no extra drag. Here I used my speed board and 19cm 40 degree rake fin both in 2015 and Jan 2017 when the wind was stronger, and only felt affects in the most thick weed spots, especially when starting off. In 2017 I tried out two slightly different 50 degree rake fins and they were terrific for the weed. It must be mentioned through, that Dr. Cam did some smashing PB's that day for 1Hr and Alphas with a 21cm Tribal Weedspeed which has a curved leading edge and is only about 30-35 degrees at the base, but maybe 45 at the tip. I guess he stayed away from the weed bergs, but he was flying!!

Budgiewoi, NSW: Again, this place is very different from the others, and more demanding for fins. The weed here is coarser and right to the surface in the flattest areas. There are strands of weed that will float and lay flat on the surface, even away from the weed bergs, so you need more raked fins to shed it from the root of the fin. I found my 40 degree fin caught heaps of floating weed here and was no good. I sailed a slalom board and big sail with a too small 50 degree delta fin. That was the right type but too small for the speeds and sail. This is one place where a 'Delta' type fin is almost mandatory, although it seems that the locals do successfully use 45 degree fins when the wind is up and they have more speed. The 'Budgie' specialists go very fast here on large gear and sails. Many runs over 40 on the best days, so again, I think the great conditions of mirror flat water and optimum angle cancel out any or most of the drag penalty from inefficient fins and weed.

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mathew said..
Who thinks the compression-wave parts the weed ?

Well It's only a theory Mathew, due to the fact that drag seems to drop as board speed increases, but this is very subjective, nobody I know of has done any measurements.

Update spot sailed in about 18m/s or 36 knots of wind. The water gets pushed to the other side of the fjord meaning ultra low water. I tried on my lessasher 22 first man out, everybody else waiting to see how it would go. Set PR on the first run but had to walk all the way back. So I borrowed a saw and cut my select weed fin down to 16,5. Still hiting the hitting the bottom when I was getting going and it doesnt have enough rake to make the weed drop of at low speed, so hard times but I managed to get PR in every the most important disciplines.

It was such big news that made it to the local paper

For those who can't read Danish or have poor eyesight:

Wednesday night was the perfect weather for windsurfers, and so were some of Denmark's fastest met up at Bagge embankment on Holmsland. It is usually an area that is widely used by kite surfers, but this evening there was no kite surfers. According photographer Henrik Olesen was probably because the wind was about 18 m / s wind from the northwest. The windy weather was, however, perfect for windsurfers who got totally flat water and therefore could sail extremely strong. One of Denmark's fastest windsurfers - Brian R?ggild previously set record by 83 km / h, also turned up on Wednesday night, and he reached a speed of over 70 km / h. Kasper Thrane had taken the trip from Esbjerg to try out the good conditions for speed surfing, as it is called. He reached a top speed of impressive 76.29 km / h.He had also just adjust some of the equipment, before he could reach the speed. Because there was extremely low at Bagge embankment on Holmsland, Kasper was forced to cut 10 centimeters of fin, but the result speaks for itself.It was photographer Henrik Olesen, who observed the many windsurfers at Bagge Dam.

dbrs.dk/artikel/kasper-speedsurfede-med-76-kilometer-i-timen

Great stuff kasper, just goes to show, the best fin is the one that doesn't drag along the bottom.

Great hands-on approach and evidence that acting without considering the consequences can be the best thing to do. Keep it up, Kasper!