If I close the gap,than sail is raked back which tremendously kill sail power,basicly you are "hide" sail from wind!
If I hold it more upright than air leak from high pressure side to low pressure side,again not good!

So how hold the sail to go faster if both positions are not good?
How can we fix this problem?

Move mastrack to suit.

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olskool said..
Move mastrack to suit.

To suit what, gap or rake?
If you solve rake then gap is huge,if you solve gap than rake is huge!
Just like two equations with three unknowns,can not be solved.

Always best wear a gps and figure out what works best for you. But, If the wind is really nukin on speed boards or small slalom, closing the gap is defo faster. Light and medium winds, some where in between closing the gap and upright, probably because you need to subtly adjust sail position and stance in the wind lulls.


just my 2 cents worth

I don't see a way out of this, the CLE needs to match the CLR. From a start the CLR will always move back, so sail has to start upright and rake back as speed increases. The only way out is to design a telescopic foot, that keeps the gap closed at all times. Good luck with that!

closing the gap is the best way to keep pressure on the fin and weight back on the board, lifting the nose to clear chop at high speeds .

rake back sail then lean a little toward the nose ...old school has a point ,maybe your mast track is to far back ,or you could be too under powered ,

Get a foil sail

Sail rake is to find and maintain board trim for wind, chop, leverage, and speed.
Don't matter if closed or open

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jusavina said..
Get a foil sail

PWA sailors confirm that foil sails outperform/kill slalom sails ,but foil sail 8.0 is too big for high wind.


Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

Agree, forget about closing the gap. Focus instead on mast base and optimum position for board trim and "flying" it off the fin. If you get that right you'll probably find that, as a secondary benefit, the gap closes when you put the hammer down

Conversely, I find if the"gap" is closing too easily it is a sign I need to bring the mast base back a little and squeeze a bit more speed out of my board

I think Guy's comment applies more to freeride gear. Just try and close the gap in a gust with slalom gear and you will feel a turbo boost. I find it more useful when trying to get upwind and lifting the windward rail. If you look at pwa sailors they seem to close the gap all the time, because they are overpowered all the time, same for racing foilers. But its true, you cannot do it automatically, it has to happen in the right conditions.

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hotlap said..

jusavina said..
Get a foil sail

PWA sailors confirm that foil sails outperform/kill slalom sails ,but foil sail 8.0 is too big for high wind.


Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

Sorry Guy, ya wrong and we proved it at Invy

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kato said..

hotlap said..

jusavina said..
Get a foil sail

PWA sailors confirm that foil sails outperform/kill slalom sails ,but foil sail 8.0 is too big for high wind.


Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

Sorry Guy, ya wrong and we proved it at Invy

What is Invy?

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powersloshin said..
If you look at pwa sailors they seem to close the gap all the time, because they are overpowered all the time,

Modern upright stance:




Guy Cribb:
Whatever conditions we're sailing in though, firstly I need to dispel a dreadful myth that haunts windsurfing technique (one of many) - closing the slot, or raking the rig back. Closing the slot/raking the sail back literally went out of fashion with flares! In the very earliest days of windsurfing when we just cruised along slower than the wind, it was important to stop some of the precious air from escaping underneath the sail by raking it right back. In those days boards were so long, narrow and heavy that raking the sail back didn't have much effect on them. However for the passed fifteen years, despite what you may see, read or hear elsewhere, 'closing the slot' is like pulling a handbrake on, and completely detrimental to your early planing and general stance, as it kills the power of your sail and can sink the tail of your board. Check out any shot of a real professional World Tour windsurfer and see if they've 'closed the slot', or if they seem relatively upright. The only times you'll see it 'closed' is with racers whose sails have extra large foot areas (their mast is almost as upright as a wave sailors), or if they're sailing overpowered on a broad reach (which, let's face it, most of the windsurfing public rarely do). Even in this situation, the rig is only raked back because the sailor has sunk so low to control the power, that the rig happens to have raked back.
As we discovered last month, to get used to the correct kit set up you need to tip the mast further forwards (more upright), which improves absolutely every aspect of your windsurfing

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Modern upright stance:

That video is 10 years old. He is raking the sail back, its not upright.

Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

As mentioned by others above, the sail is raked back for trim as the CLR moves back, you dont rake the sail back to 'close the slot'. The 'endplate' affect talked about in the 80's wouldn't really apply bouncing over chop in 40 knots wind.

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PhilUK said..
That video is 10 years old. He is raking the sail back, its not upright.

For sure sail is raked,but if he close the gap it will be raked even more.
He cant hold sail 100% upright when he is in footstraps ,yes if mast track is 50cm back, than sail will be upright!! :)

I did 3 clinics with Guy Cribb and I think he is awesome and helped me a lot to progress. But also I think we should not quote him like the bible and our feedback to practical questions should come from personal experience. I also had this doubt, because I saw some very fast sailors closing the gap and I tried it by myself, as mentioned before I can feel extra power in the gusts if I am close reaching or trying to go upwind.

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hotlap said..

PhilUK said..
That video is 10 years old. He is raking the sail back, its not upright.

For sure sail is raked,but if he close the gap it will be raked even more.
He cant hold sail 100% upright when he is in footstraps ,yes if mast track is 50cm back, than sail will be upright!! :)

If it was faster bringing the mast back 50cm they would do it. You sound like Basher banging on about mast track back/upright super-7 stance all the time. That may be better for multi finned wave boards for wave sailing but not other disciplines.

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PhilUK said..

hotlap said..

PhilUK said..
That video is 10 years old. He is raking the sail back, its not upright.

For sure sail is raked,but if he close the gap it will be raked even more.
He cant hold sail 100% upright when he is in footstraps ,yes if mast track is 50cm back, than sail will be upright!! :)

If it was faster bringing the mast back 50cm they would do it. You sound like Basher banging on about mast track back/upright super-7 stance all the time. That may be better for multi finned wave boards for wave sailing but not other disciplines.

I am kidding ,if you do that with current race sails ,board will turn upwind all the time.To do that and make sail COE in line with CLR at fin,sail will must looks like A-class cat,that will never happend..

How much is distance from fin box to mast track at wave boards compare to big slalom boards?

It's always good to have a open gap you can go faster for longer which is more satisfying more control equals better performance especially going deep
seriously and don't let ya mind wander reading this

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stroppo said..
It's always good to have a open gap you can go faster for longer which is more satisfying more control equals better performance especially going deep
seriously and don't let ya mind wander reading this

Ok thanks I will try next time on water.

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hotlap said..Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

Utter Rubbish!!

OK. To give Cribby the benefit of the doubt, his dogma is usually aimed at low/intermediate recreational sailors on anything BUT speed or slalom gear and modern Slalom Race sails. A great dela of his dogma is way off for high performance and speed sailing. (But probably often quite useful for the catagory of sailors mentioned)

Modern race and cammed slalom sails are designed with the foot angle to suit a modern slalom board so they will be most effecient and best balanced at top speed with the'slot' closed. The flatter the water is and the more laminar the wind is close the the water surface, the greater the power from the foot of the sail. Ask me how I know.

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hotlap said..
How can we fix this problem?

It is a NON Problem!

There you go. Fixed it!

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sailquik said..

Rubbish!!

OK. To give Cribby the benefit of the doubt, his dogma is usually aimed at low/intermediate recreational sailors on anything BUT speed or slalom gear and modern Slalom Race sails. A great dela of his dogma is way off for high performance and speed sailing. (But probably often quite useful for the catagory of sailors mentioned)

Modern race and cammed slalom sails are designed with the foot angle to suit a modern slalom board so they will be most effecient and best balanced at top speed with the'slot' closed. The flatter the water is and the more laminar the wind is close the the water surface, the greater the power from the foot of the sail. Ask me how I know.

Guy Cribb is not welcom to this forum?

Yes he is. He's just not god......just a naughty boy .

A good example of how ungodly Guy is, was the time keef lent him one of his shallow water dense weed fins designed to get in the smooth. Apparently guy gybed before he hit the weed and only tried it in the chop. Obviously his reaction was negative, but it surprised me that he just was completely unaware of the benefits of sailing in dead smooth weedy water.

And us speed sailors were just a different species when it came to stance, equipment and technique. Raced him in very light winds..foil v slalom board.....he didn't win..

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kato said..
Yes he is. He's just not god......just a naughty boy .

When I look his videos he seems drunk ...but it sems that he knows what he talking about

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hotlap said..

jusavina said..
Get a foil sail

PWA sailors confirm that foil sails outperform/kill slalom sails ,but foil sail 8.0 is too big for high wind.


Guy Cribb:
'CLOSE THE SLOT - TRUE OR FALSE?' Closing the slot (raking the sail back to close the gap between the bottom of your sail and the board) is an expression born in the eighties. And that's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately it still lingers and wrecks loads of windsurfers' techniques! Do not ever consciously 'close the slot', it just kills the power and reduces Downforce.

I think the bit to take away from Cribbys comment is that it should never be a conscious/forced act.


you shouldn't be trying to do it. If you've got the correct stance and your set up is correct and you're using a low cut cambered sail, then "closing the gap" is going to come naturally. And you'll find with board movement over chop the gap will open a bit, because you're set up solid and holding the sail in a constant position.

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stroppo said..
It's always good to have a open gap you can go faster for longer which is more satisfying more control equals better performance especially going deep
seriously and don't let ya mind wander reading this

Did you write that like that on purpose Strop? Or did you just think it through afterwards?