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BSN101 said..

Heading down wind deep down wind.
Windward rail catches.


Gurus explain away.

Decrepit, Original post to this thread. Was twisting my lil mind.

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olskool said..

BSN101 said..

Heading down wind deep down wind.
Windward rail catches.


Gurus explain away.

Decrepit, Original post to this thread. Was twisting my lil mind.

Ahhh I see, the only explanation I have is that Dave is from Bussleton.
Don't worry about it too much, it happens to everybody now and again.

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BSN101 said..
How does spin out occur when you are heading deep off the wind? Side ways pressure on the fin would be a lot less that reaching or going up wind.

Going real fast, means less board in the water, means fin has less water between it and atmosphere, means easier to ventilate.
Also the higher speed and less angle of attack, creates more suck on both sides of the fin, which again makes it easier to ventilate
A fat leading edge, makes this worse, good for upwind not down. A good speed fin has a very even curve foil, some approaching very close to a section of a circumference. This spreads less suck over more of the fin, instead of concentrating high suck in a small area behind the leading edge.

And of course flat water really helps, keeping the fin in the water at high speed in chop is a real art!

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decrepit said..

olskool said..

BSN101 said..

Heading down wind deep down wind.
Windward rail catches.


Gurus explain away.

Decrepit, Original post to this thread. Was twisting my lil mind.

Ahhh I see, the only explanation I have is that Dave is from Bussleton.
Don't worry about it too much, it happens to everybody now and again.

And Im a likeable lad too! Ask Fangster

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Stretchy said..
Yep, spin out usually does it. Yesterday, I started to spin out on the end of a 39kt peak run and catching a rail in the chop was my immediate fear. Luckily I had time to react, but I was going very deep and I figured if I tried to pull it in I would likely catch a rail first. So all I could do was drop the anchor, my bum, to bring things to an elegant (not) halt.
Up at Cervantes earlier in the year there was a lot of crazy chop that was difficult to see and you could still bite it without needing to spin out first. I saw quite a few people go down hard. Happened to me too, I didn't even see the lip that bit me. I don't know how you avoid that. Skill I guess , and younger eyes!

And a few of us saw that Bum Spray too. Never seen Stretchy man in trouble like that.

I generally spin out every session. Getting quite good at it and sometimes keep it going for the hell of it. Ill be second guessing that idea now!

BSN101, all good mate. Just thought i wasnt understanding the scenario. Always keen to learn more about the Better Harder Faster gig.

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And Im a likeable lad too! Ask Fangster

So much opportunity/temptation here it's like getting a free kick directly in front of goals, and walking away...

BSN101, i got a 150 litre board 6months ago. Tried it quite a few times with 9.5 n 8.5. I was the 'SpinMaster' on the gusts. Friggin pissing me off. Tried rig tune over n over. Im used to RB style tune. So had to depower, id crank the DH adjust OH n mastrack. Even tried 4 different fins. Still the same outcome. Spin spin spin on the gusts. Then i shifted my rear footstraps towards the centreline by one hole. Rigged n finned as i normally would it now sails filth.
No more SPIN = Bloody massive grin. Seems my 103kg n rhino stance was just too much pressure on the rail. Even though fins were powerful n 52-57cm long.. maybe try it n take it for a test spin. Errrr i mean NO SPIN....

Yep, windward rail down, (feet too outboard) is another cause of spinout. Water flow is coming from leeward, so lifting leeward rail, exposes the fin to the atmosphere more. Leeward rail down is faster and safer, less pressure on the fin, because the rail is helping, and there is more water in front of fin in the direction of flow.

This is why I think shifting straps in when using a delta, would improve most peoples experience with them.

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olskool said..
BSN101, i got a 150 litre board 6months ago. Tried it quite a few times with 9.5 n 8.5. I was the 'SpinMaster' on the gusts. Friggin pissing me off. Tried rig tune over n over. Im used to RB style tune. So had to depower, id crank the DH adjust OH n mastrack. Even tried 4 different fins. Still the same outcome. Spin spin spin on the gusts. Then i shifted my rear footstraps towards the centreline by one hole. Rigged n finned as i normally would it now sails filth.
No more SPIN = Bloody massive grin. Seems my 103kg n rhino stance was just too much pressure on the rail. Even though fins were powerful n 52-57cm long.. maybe try it n take it for a test spin. Errrr i mean NO SPIN....

Ive spun out on my US147 with a Drake Race 58 fin a couple of times. Thats scary! Ido want to go to the extremes next summer with the US straps. 30knts is the target.

throw the drake away dave
lots faster fins out there.
if its tuttle I have a 43 tribal weedy you can try
I have pushed my big misty to 35 plus so far and mr lockwood does forties all the time on his
so thirty should be piece of piss on the us.

Yeah Dave as mentioned by ratz the tribals will give a lot of grip very safe when sending it and super slick through the water!

Rails are for trains. Get some wings!

(sorry, i've had a couple)

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stroppo said..
Yeah Dave as mentioned by ratz the tribals will give a lot of grip very safe when sending it and super slick through the water!

I'm already on the Tribal team. I'll try a SL Mk1 46 on the US147. It's 95wide. I'm happy with the Drake but not tried any other fins on it yet. Need a smaller one for when it's honking and I want to still take it out. Steve was on his IS107 and I was on the US out in the bay here and I just pipped him on speed. Really surprised me ! Other than out US's we only use tribals WS PM SL SP

+ 1 for ditching the Drake. Spun both 48 n 54. Tried Select S10 54. Now using Select Vmax 3.0 57cm. Seems a great fin so far. Odd vibe or hum from it though. Guess it needs a light sand?

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olskool said..>>>> Odd vibe or hum from it though. Guess it needs a light sand?

Check the trailing edge, that's the normal cause of hum. doesn't need to be sharp, that's dangerous, but it shouldn't be rounded either. A 0.05mm square edge should be fine, if not put it on a slight angle.

Decrepit, thanks will give it a touch up n see how it goes. Atm its my speedo when ive no gps.

The only time I've had that issue is entering a gybe in chop..I don't know if I tried to initiate the turn too hard or? I I lost half a front tooth going into the boom that day.Ever since I prefer to gybe in a lull in chop..
Any suggestions as to why it might happen entering a gybe in chop?

I had a similar crash a few weeks ago. Did not loose a tooth, but the sail ended up needing repair. I my case, I had entered the jibe distracted by another windsurfer jibing close by, so I was sloppy in the preparation and setup, and did not pick a spot where to start carving. The last time I had such a crash where I actually hit the boom with my face is a few years ago.

I'm not totally sure what happened, but got theories. Entering the jibe with a sail not sheeted in can mean a sudden increase in sail pressure when you start carving, which pulls you forward; a gust hitting at the same time makes it worse. If the board runs into the back of a piece of chop at the same time, it will slow down a lot, and the nose may go under. Then you find yourself in the water, on the sail or boom.

Things that help to avoid this crash are: 1. Make sure you're fully sheeted in when you enter the jibe (preferably also going very fast). 2. Bend your knees more! 3. Pick a smooth area to start the jibe.

Entering a jibe in a lull may seem safe, but it dramatically reduces your chances to plane out of the jibe.

Who can ever forget Troppo catching a rail @ 2:35

I read a review on sails and a comment was "It certainly needs to be partnered with an efficient board that can keep up with it - it will overpower and overtake more placid natured freeride boards, creating control issues as it pulls the rider's stance out of shape".
With a too powerful sail we can come unstuck. Bad technique too. This sounds like a typical out of gybe exit forward but feel that it can also contribute when going deep and all the power up high, mast not raked back enough and a small wave/ripple touches the board infront of the mast and slows the board under our feet an sets the wheels in motion for a dismount forward.
So I will be putting my mast foot fwd a touch boom up a touch on the next overpowered session to see if my control & confidence improve.

Dave, with body position I think you're on the right track. If you're hunched over at all not only will you be slower, but it will be easier to go "over the bars". I find when sailing on a steady reach, I can fairly easily milk 1/2kt more speed just by focusing on getting my back/shoulders/head back and adjusting hands on boom to promote this as well.

with boom/mast base position, not so much. if you're feeling out of control, maybe that's a good thing, speed sailing requires that you find that position that is on the edge of disaster, then learn to control it. I'm uninclined to put my mast base forward unless it's really choppy, as it's usually slower. I reckon a 3-4cam sail would also help your confidence when overpowered as they are so stable. You want a heap of power, it just needs to be stable.

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boardsurfr said..
I had a similar crash a few weeks ago. Did not loose a tooth, but the sail ended up needing repair. I my case, I had entered the jibe distracted by another windsurfer jibing close by, so I was sloppy in the preparation and setup, and did not pick a spot where to start carving. The last time I had such a crash where I actually hit the boom with my face is a few years ago.

I'm not totally sure what happened, but got theories. Entering the jibe with a sail not sheeted in can mean a sudden increase in sail pressure when you start carving, which pulls you forward; a gust hitting at the same time makes it worse. If the board runs into the back of a piece of chop at the same time, it will slow down a lot, and the nose may go under. Then you find yourself in the water, on the sail or boom.

Things that help to avoid this crash are: 1. Make sure you're fully sheeted in when you enter the jibe (preferably also going very fast). 2. Bend your knees more! 3. Pick a smooth area to start the jibe.

Entering a jibe in a lull may seem safe, but it dramatically reduces your chances to plane out of the jibe.

Yep. I was thinking I may not have oversheeted enough..probably all 3 things..I also need to pick a line through the chop..I used to do that skiing but I haven't applied it to windsurfing yet..
I'd given up trying to plane out of gybes in anything over 10" of chop

Tripping in gybe can be a few things- going in with the handbrake on, uneven board pressure with feet, not settling board & landing it on rail after slight bounce, uneven sail pressure (yank on sail to get control when didnt oversheet), not bending knees, mast track too far forward, too small a fin losing grip/drive mid gybe & ive probably missed a few others but likely a bit of a combination.

What are these boards you guys are using that are tripping rails? Touch wood don't think ive had anything much trip since my 90's boards.

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mkseven said..
Tripping in gybe can be a few things- going in with the handbrake on, uneven board pressure with feet, not settling board & landing it on rail after slight bounce, uneven sail pressure (yank on sail to get control when didnt oversheet), not bending knees, mast track too far forward, too small a fin losing grip/drive mid gybe & ive probably missed a few others but likely a bit of a combination.

What are these boards you guys are using that are tripping rails? Touch wood don't think ive had anything much trip since my 90's boards.

We are heading deep off the wind up to about 135 degrees. Trying to go as fast as possible.
I use 54-66 wide and 84-108litres.
Sails 4.5-7.2 which are twin cam or no cam.
Some guys get out on 45cm wide boards, slalom/speed boards of course.
I haven't caught a rail for about 12mths but i have had the pleasure of dismounting forward a few times recently.

Yeah i get that, we do the same here. So it's mainly speed boards that are tripping or older boards or is there particular board doing it?

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mkseven said..
Tripping in gybe can be a few things- going in with the handbrake on, uneven board pressure with feet, not settling board & landing it on rail after slight bounce, uneven sail pressure (yank on sail to get control when didnt oversheet), not bending knees, mast track too far forward, too small a fin losing grip/drive mid gybe & ive probably missed a few others but likely a bit of a combination.

What are these boards you guys are using that are tripping rails? Touch wood don't think ive had anything much trip since my 90's boards.

Mine was a 95ltre Tabou rocket with a wavesail..Looking at your list probably all those things ..Most likely unhooking badly , losing mast foot pressure and bouncing on the entry..?

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mkseven said..
Yeah i get that, we do the same here. So it's mainly speed boards that are tripping or older boards or is there particular board doing it?

A particular rider might be more appropriate! Lol

I was just asking to see if there was a clear fix for this error of our ways. Or conditions that we should look out for. Lots of wind and rough water & out of control!

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BSN101 said..

olskool said..
BSN101, i got a 150 litre board 6months ago. Tried it quite a few times with 9.5 n 8.5. I was the 'SpinMaster' on the gusts. Friggin pissing me off. Tried rig tune over n over. Im used to RB style tune. So had to depower, id crank the DH adjust OH n mastrack. Even tried 4 different fins. Still the same outcome. Spin spin spin on the gusts. Then i shifted my rear footstraps towards the centreline by one hole. Rigged n finned as i normally would it now sails filth.
No more SPIN = Bloody massive grin. Seems my 103kg n rhino stance was just too much pressure on the rail. Even though fins were powerful n 52-57cm long.. maybe try it n take it for a test spin. Errrr i mean NO SPIN....

Ive spun out on my US147 with a Drake Race 58 fin a couple of times. Thats scary! Ido want to go to the extremes next summer with the US straps. 30knts is the target.

I think I can safely say your not getting 30 knots on the US147 with the drake 58. I've had it very powered up and bearing away was terrifying.

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tryharder said..

BSN101 said..

olskool said..
BSN101, i got a 150 litre board 6months ago. Tried it quite a few times with 9.5 n 8.5. I was the 'SpinMaster' on the gusts. Friggin pissing me off. Tried rig tune over n over. Im used to RB style tune. So had to depower, id crank the DH adjust OH n mastrack. Even tried 4 different fins. Still the same outcome. Spin spin spin on the gusts. Then i shifted my rear footstraps towards the centreline by one hole. Rigged n finned as i normally would it now sails filth.
No more SPIN = Bloody massive grin. Seems my 103kg n rhino stance was just too much pressure on the rail. Even though fins were powerful n 52-57cm long.. maybe try it n take it for a test spin. Errrr i mean NO SPIN....

Ive spun out on my US147 with a Drake Race 58 fin a couple of times. Thats scary! Ido want to go to the extremes next summer with the US straps. 30knts is the target.

I think I can safely say your not getting 30 knots on the US147 with the drake 58. I've had it very powered up and bearing away was terrifying.

No not 30 but 26.9 on the US147 drake race58 7.7 in Geographe Bay Busselton. Not flat water either. I'll get closer when we start on big kit again. I got a 25 on my Mistral EQ2 as well.
I he big boards certainly can go fast.