hi guys,
i'd rather you hear it from the horses mouth...

C3-fins is going through some major changes right now.
my business partner Dave and me have decided to go our own way.
it will take me a while to figure out where to go from here and i'm looking into several different options at the moment.
the remaining C3-fins stock are being sold off in a sale right now [check the website for details], but the gap to new C3/Boogie designed fins should not be more than a few months.

i'm also going to offer a limited run of true custom fins to fill in the gap. your chance to get anything you ever wanted from C3.
from the teeny tiny speed fin you always wanted with that special rake angle to the weirdo weedo fin for your local pond. just let me know what you are interested in.
i'm open to discuss new concepts or design approaches here in the forum if you like.

cheers
Boogie

My old X2 was always a favourite. All the best on the new direction. I know quality wont be an issue......

C3 customs? ??????? Supper interested now!

Hope everything goes well though!

The one thing that springs to mind, is very heavy weed on the surface of shallow water. The water can be super smooth in quite high wind strengths. But a normal weedy has fairly high drag in the weed. Deltas are a big improvement, but I suspect they can be improved on.
My thought is that the normal approach to induced drag goes out the window in shallow weedy water, as the bottom and the weed are an impediment to flow around the tip.

Lake George doesn't quite fit this, as most of the time the weed isn't that heavy, but I have seen areas in shallow water, where the weed is much heavier. But it's normally avoided because there are vast areas, with water only slightly less flat, but with much less dragy weed

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C3 said..
hi guys,
C3-fins stock are being sold off in a sale right now [check the website for details], but the gap to new C3/Boogie designed fins should not be more than a few months.

i'm also going to offer a limited run of true custom fins to fill in the gap. your chance to get anything you ever wanted from C3.
from the teeny tiny speed fin you always wanted with that special rake angle to the weirdo weedo fin for your local pond. just let me know what you are interested in.
i'm open to discuss new concepts or design approaches here in the forum if you like.

cheers
Boogie

I don't think those fins are going to last long
boogie are you keeping your C3 web site and when are we going to see these custom fins , it would be good to have on your web site a dropdown box listing the conditions you sail
board type
speed
freeride
slalom
wave
board volume
sail type
sail size
light weed
heavy weed .... ect just tick the boxes and it will give you the recommended custom fin

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decrepit said..
The one thing that springs to mind, is very heavy weed on the surface of shallow water. The water can be super smooth in quite high wind strengths. But a normal weedy has fairly high drag in the weed. Deltas are a big improvement, but I suspect they can be improved on.
My thought is that the normal approach to induced drag goes out the window in shallow weedy water, as the bottom and the weed are an impediment to flow around the tip.

Lake George doesn't quite fit this, as most of the time the weed isn't that heavy, but I have seen areas in shallow water, where the weed is much heavier. But it's normally avoided because there are vast areas, with water only slightly less flat, but with much less dragy weed

second'ed.

Greater than 45deg rake, is an area where there is very little knowledge ( ... other than current designs dont really work ).

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mathew said...


second'ed.

Greater than 45deg rake, is an area where there is very little knowledge ( ... other than current designs dont really work ).

I'm not sure about that mathew most of my fins are between 18cm to 20cm at 47deg And have done just on 40knts , after saying that the 40knts was in flat water but the fin had to handle some good size chop before getting to the flat stuff , But I will have to say there are a lot more weed speed fins avalable than there were a couple of years ago
There is a big market out there for higher raked fins And most of the company's will be on the wagon

I'd love to see the return of the original Z and D range of slalom fins. I managed to hunt down D fins in 28cm and 36cm, and my personal favourites the Z fins in 30, 32 and 35cm, I lost my 34cm ??. Not been able to find any in bigger sizes for my iS107 and iS137 so using F hits here, but would defo replace them with bigger C3 Z shape fins.

i think F4 in the usa are still using the old C3 D plates, but no Z tempates.

I also still use the old Zulu and Echo 70cm formula fins.

Custom can only mean Carbon???

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yoyo said..
My old X2 was always a favourite. All the best on the new direction. I know quality wont be an issue......

i think i still have the mould for the X1 and the X2.... and the press.
but i'm not really that keen to get back into full time carbon custom fins. it's not very pleasant to work in a carbon fibre dust environment every day. done my dash on that for about 20 years...

cheers
Boogie

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remo81 said..
Custom can only mean Carbon???

i still have 13 sheets of G10 left.... so i can get any fin i like CNC machined here in NZ. not cheap, but very flexible as there would be no minimum order quantity

in a dark corner of the workshop are also some moulds for carbon fins, but i'm not too keen to get back into that.

Boogie

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mark62 said..
I'd love to see the return of the original Z and D range of slalom fins. I managed to hunt down D fins in 28cm and 36cm, and my personal favourites the Z fins in 30, 32 and 35cm, I lost my 34cm ??. Not been able to find any in bigger sizes for my iS107 and iS137 so using F hits here, but would defo replace them with bigger C3 Z shape fins.

i think F4 in the usa are still using the old C3 D plates, but no Z tempates.

I also still use the old Zulu and Echo 70cm formula fins.

when i stopped making my own custom carbon fins in 2006 i sold the moulds, designs and the technology to two groups. one is VMG fins and i'm sure Chris T. still has the moulds for the E/Z fins. i'm not sure if he ever got the D model.

the other group is the guys around F4 fins. i'm sure they still have the E and the D model moulds still available.

i'm not sure if any of those guys are keen to make slalom fins from their Formula moulds as there is a lot of wastage. you still need to fill the part that you chop off with a resin filler mix to create the internal pressure in the mould.

i think i still have the Z mould [which if i remember is just a shorter version of the E for slalom length fins only] some where in storage.

if there is anybody out there wanting to buy a set of slalom and speed fin moulds and a press to go with it, just contact me via email.

i'm also more than keen to sell the technology/designs for new fin models/moulds that fit the same manufacturing process if anyone is keen.

cheers
Boogie

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decrepit said..
The one thing that springs to mind, is very heavy weed on the surface of shallow water. The water can be super smooth in quite high wind strengths. But a normal weedy has fairly high drag in the weed. Deltas are a big improvement, but I suspect they can be improved on.
My thought is that the normal approach to induced drag goes out the window in shallow weedy water, as the bottom and the weed are an impediment to flow around the tip.

Lake George doesn't quite fit this, as most of the time the weed isn't that heavy, but I have seen areas in shallow water, where the weed is much heavier. But it's normally avoided because there are vast areas, with water only slightly less flat, but with much less dragy weed

weed fins are a tricky business... but you are right there is lots of room for improvement.
i've made a full set of proto weed fins at 48deg rake for testing a while ago and have got really good feedback on them, but unfortunately they were never viable to be made as a production fin that fin in with the C3 business philosophy.

the problems we encountered to ever get them off the ground as production fins were:
1) small speed fins needed to be fine tuned in rake angle depending on where you are sailing. you can get optimum performance when covering all states of weed.
if you go with a lot of rake angle to cover heavy surface weed you loose performance in conditions that don't require quite that much rake. so that small market gets fragmented into very small amounts of finely specialised fins. not good for production fins that need to be ordered by the G10 panel per size.

2) small slalom fins face a similar problem, with the need to tune the rake angle as upright as possible for the conditions you encounter, plus these fins made in G10 become quite heavy and are getting expensive due to the odd nesting layout on the G10 sheets. of course you could make them in a moulded technology to reduce the weight, but you would certainly lose durability compared to G10 which might be quite important in shallow conditions.

3) the big slalom weed fins i made didn't seem to have no straight line speed problem at the top end at all, but the biggest one i made [with an equivalent power of a Sting45] starts to get a bit more challenging to gybe due to the long chord length at the base. plus those sizes you would really only want make in a moulded technology as production fin, as they will be prohibitively expensive in G10 due to the geometry and the biggest one came in at a hefty 1.2kg


i'm pretty confident that with a bit of development work the performance and usability of weed fins can be improved... quite a bit.
not so sure that we will ever be able to sail super fast in constant heavy weed conditions. there is a huge difference between shedding the odd strand of weed or sailing through a patch and constantly having weed sliding off the fin, that might just be too much drag to really make it fast.

i'll see if i can find some pictures of the proto fins i made.

cheers
Boogie

found a few pictures of the larger SWEED proto fins
one is mounted in a Falcon99 and the big monster is mounted in a iS117wide

the fins are:
SWEED 32/25/48 and 45/35/48 [power equivalent to normal slalom fin/depth/rake angle]

any comments?

I was very jealous when i saw one of these on a tasmanians boards at Sandy Point last year. They were getting great speeds. To hear they weren't available was disappointing. Would love a 20 and 23.

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C3 said..

found a few pictures of the larger SWEED proto fins
one is mounted in a Falcon99 and the big monster is mounted in a iS117wide

the fins are:
SWEED 32/25/48 and 45/35/48 [power equivalent to normal slalom fin/depth/rake angle]

any comments?

its a shame you don't develop those fins , I have been making exactly the same fin for a few years , I wouldn't say there a speed fin but a very safe all round fast fin with incredible lift for a shallow fin, the best my fins have done is 39knts but where they really shine is a NM you can load it up and it just keeps the power on
there also great for sailors with a heavy back foot ,unlike the delta's where if you hit some small chop with a heavy back foot it will spin out

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SeaSkip said..
I was very jealous when i saw one of these on a tasmanians boards at Sandy Point last year. They were getting great speeds. To hear they weren't available was disappointing. Would love a 20 and 23.

Seaskip a 20 and 23 are big fins an 18cm will power up a 6.5 comfortably , in fact the 18 is a very versatile fin you can use it with a 4.6 race sail aswell a 6.5

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keef said..

C3 said..

found a few pictures of the larger SWEED proto fins
one is mounted in a Falcon99 and the big monster is mounted in a iS117wide

the fins are:
SWEED 32/25/48 and 45/35/48 [power equivalent to normal slalom fin/depth/rake angle]

any comments?

its a shame you don't develop those fins , I have been making exactly the same fin for a few years , I wouldn't say there a speed fin but a very safe all round fast fin with incredible lift for a shallow fin, the best my fins have done is 39knts but where they really shine is a NM you can load it up and it just keeps the power on
there also great for sailors with a heavy back foot ,unlike the delta's where if you hit some small chop with a heavy back foot it will spin out

i wouldn't say they are not developed... they are the last in a line of several protos over a few years. but that is where i stopped because we couldn't make them as production fins in G10. which was the constraint so far.

the purpose and with that speed potential is certainly linked to the size/power these fins have. if you make one to power and balance a bigger slalom board with a big sail then its not going to turn this combo into a speed machine, but if the design is good a heavily raked fin should have the same or better top end speed potential as a upright slalom fin, but it will never be as good on the bottom end due to the reduced lift curve slope from the rake and the trim of the board from the shorter depth.

the pictures above show the larger slalom versions. the big one is nearly 30cm long in the chord at the base. imo, the overhang in the front is a good compromise to balance the centre of effort close to where a normal slalom fin would be. no moving mast foot back required with these puppies.
i found them quite natural to sail and VERY save on the topend. no spinouts whatsoever through the range, but due to the large rake angle of course you get the crab motion of the board at slow speeds and the rail doesn't get lifted like on a deeper more upright fin.

as the designs for these weed fins are so different in area and the rake angle can vary quite a bit, we really need to get away from sizing them by the length perpendicular to the bottom of the board. i know it sounds complicated, but that's why i describe their size with three numbers

power equivalent to normal upright slalom fin/depth/rake angle

if anyone has a better idea, let me know

and yes, these fins are available now as custom fins.
cheers
Boogie

I have a few of these fins. Found them excellent. 27 is the smallest I have. Done 40 plus knots an alphas over 26. Best Weedies I've ever used Looking forward to get my hands on smaller ones

As I was was scrolling down, I thought that fin is just like mine!

I have a keef weedie, its highly desirable red weed fin that started off my venture into flat water fast sailing this year - I have a long long way to go at sailing fast, still wearing L plates but there are others with keef weedies in that shape getting fast speeds at Primbee and other secret locations

Keef has found there is a new niche market of making fins in colours to match the board - this market needs to be explored further.

He also has a new fin range not avaliable to the public yet with some VERY interesting graphics.

I'd be interested in a sweed in 25/27.

G,day Boogie, I've been working on this design for about 3 yrs now and fairly happy with the results, but still think that it needs refinement. The latest improvement was to limit the amount of carbon in the lay up, down to a (skin) of 1093gsm. 93 on the exterior and 5 layers of 200. Then a filler of microballoons. This keeps the weight down and still ensures the rigidity needed in a good weedy.
Any thought of marketing the fin would not be viable. A fin that would sell for maybe 300, takes me about 3 days to do. Most of that is drying (curing) time. Then finishing etc, bugger that for a joke.
I don't mind doing it for a hobby, but wouldn't like to do it for a living.
I was wondering if you can reduce the chord length on the prototype to reach the same ratio? This is 7.5% I tried 8 and it handled like a bus on a greasy road, and 7 used to let go the second you started smiling.

That's a piece of art Pepe.

Thanks Snags, stands up well against gangs of local hoodlums too

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Dezza said..
As I was was scrolling down, I thought that fin is just like mine!

I have a keef weedie, its highly desirable red weed fin that started off my venture into flat water fast sailing this year - I have a long long way to go at sailing fast, still wearing L plates but there are others with keef weedies in that shape getting fast speeds at Primbee and other secret locations

Keef has found there is a new niche market of making fins in colours to match the board - this market needs to be explored further.

He also has a new fin range not avaliable to the public yet with some VERY interesting graphics.

Dezza that fin is a bit different than yours , i'm just finishing off Nichols fin it should be in the post in a couple of days ,

pepe that's a nice fin , I dough it performs as well as mine but it sure looks more professional , i'm going to have to get a finish like yours

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sausage said..
That's a piece of art Pepe.

And it looks even better in the flesh! Photos don't quite do it justice.

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keef said..

Dezza that fin is a bit different than yours , i'm just finishing off Nichols fin it should be in the post in a couple of days ,

pepe that's a nice fin , I dough it performs as well as mine but it sure looks more professional , i'm going to have to get a finish like yours

i'm not sure what all the red thumbs are about , I kissed pepe's a-se for making such a beautiful professional fin and excepted the fact that my fins need to be finished off better to come up to his standard as for the comment about it being off the pace too my fin's that's my opinion and i'm sticking to it ,
pepe keep up the good work and high standard and sorry I cant help you with the foil problem because I don't know how to work out the % of the chord , have a talk to decrepit he sent me heaps of different foils , my guess he will sort it out

Yes Pepe your fins are beautiful. I am the lucky owner of one and people are often stopping me on the beach to comment on what a beautiful fin it is.
It is one of Pepe's earlier prototypes, so it's not my fastest fin, but it is my favourite fin for gybing.

Hey Keef, I wouldn't worry about the red thumbs, I thought it was tongue in cheek. Anyway, there is no problem with the chord ratio. I was addressing Boogie with a question about the length of his weedie prototype. To reach a compromise on a shallow water weedie, the length of the chord has to be longer. A good example of this is the delta.
I spent a fair amount of time getting the profile right and as close to the NACA 63A profile as possible, long before I decided to make it pretty.

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C3 said..
hi guys,

i'm open to discuss new concepts or design approaches here in the forum if you like.

cheers
Boogie

boogie you said you were open to some ideas , heres a pic of a fin I just popped out of the mold this morning and reboxed, so far it has only been trimmed and no sanding at this stage
the fin is 80%carbon with multi layers of 30z satin + woven roving's , the mold is vacuumed so the air is sucked out and the layup is under compression , meaning the leading edge and trailing edge is similar to g10 but still not as good as g10,
so what we need for sailing weed and shallow water carbon /glass hybrid .what I have found is you can use a much smaller fin in carbon than strait g10 but if you have to pay $300 for a fin and you mite get one season out of it it could get costly

just as a matter of interest my best fin is a 18cm ex 21 slingshot dropped back to 47deg with the leading edge 10mm over hang and the trailing to the back of the box

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keef said..

C3 said..
hi guys,

i'm open to discuss new concepts or design approaches here in the forum if you like.

cheers
Boogie

boogie you said you were open to some ideas , heres a pic of a fin I just popped a fin out of the mold this morning and reboxed, so far it has only been trimmed and no sanding at this stage
the fin is 80%carbon with multi layers of 30z satin + woven roving's , the mold is vacuumed so the air is sucked out and the layup is under compression , meaning the leading edge and trailing edge is similar to g10 but still not as good as g10,
so what we need for sailing weed and shallow water carbon /glass hybrid .what I have found is you can use a much smaller fin in carbon than strait g10 but if you have to pay $300 for a fin and you mite get one season out of it it could get costly

just as a matter of interest my best fin is a 18cm ex 21 slingshot dropped back to 47deg with the leading edge 10mm over hang and the trailing to the back of the box

And so the first of the new keef graphics are revealed...whats on the other side of that fin?